Joel Embiid Likely Out for the Season, Will Have Second Surgery

[D.o.s.]

Welp, it looks like the circle jerk is proceeding nicely. I think I'll leave the thread before I get any on my monitor.

I mean, we could go through and look at all the posts about how Rondo was going to come back and be just fine which, in hindsight, look significantly dumber. All it proves is that none of us can see the future.

Your self-congratulatory self-righteousness is overlooking two points.

1.  There's a difference between being optimistic about a proven NBA player coming back from injury and being in denial about a kid who couldn't make it through one season of college ball, even when there were still questions about his health a full year later.

2.  This is a Celtics board for Celtics fans.  It's normal for us to be stupid and stubborn about our players.  LarBrd is a guy who claims to be a Celtics fan while not only drooling over everything Hinkie does but dismisses everyone on the current Boston roster as "talentless mediocrities" while raving about the potential of Anthony Bennett, Bismack Biyombo and Nic Stuaskus.

If anyone ever deserves the "point and laugh" treatment, it is LarBrd at this moment.

Mike

I mean you compared Doug McDermott to Paul Pierce but I don't bring that up as evidence that you're an idiot. Maybe I should?

The Celtics, as constructed, are not a good team. Realizing that doesn't make you a bad fan. Obviously we're all free to disagree or whatever, but the backslapping leaves a bad taste in my mouth, that's all.

[MBunge]

Welp, it looks like the circle jerk is proceeding nicely. I think I'll leave the thread before I get any on my monitor.

I mean, we could go through and look at all the posts about how Rondo was going to come back and be just fine which, in hindsight, look significantly dumber. All it proves is that none of us can see the future.

Some just act like they do.

Yeah but dude you, in particular, act this way all the time. You did it with Tim per Rondo, you did it with Triboy on Aaron Gordon (or something), and you do it with LB on Embiid.

The common denominator here should be fairly easy to spot.

Right, because his opinions are shared by the masses. Ironically, I think some of the biggest back and forths ever were between he and Tim. Usually I disagree with people here about basketball related topics. Isn't that only normal? Diffent minds = different opinions. LarBrd was dismissing all the reports of Embiid's medical issues, something (medical field) that he probably has no knowledge about. And not only was he doing so, but he was doing so in a very smug manner.

I know you're trying to be his PR guy, but he's a big boy and has written A LOT about Embiid. Isn't it only just that he gives a response on the news?

Some of the biggest differences on this blog have been between me and LB. Most recently Biyombo, prior to that Rondo, also relating to Oscar Robertson from time to time. I also disagree with him about Embiid, but that's not really the point.

What I'm saying, Eddie, is that you continually post like a ****, and that it's annoying to continually read your posts calling out other posters, particularly when you do it out of nowhere (like you did in this thread) instead of reading posts that relate to the situation at hand, rather than your weird fixations on specific posters on specific topics, is a drag. A measure of self-awareness would be nice, and probably result in a better reading experience for many posters here.

Yeah...guys who come into a thread throwing the term "circle jerk" around don't get to climb up on a high horse with other posters.

And no, "circle jerk" is not a synonym for "echo chamber."  You know it.  I know it.  Everybody knows it.

Mike

[D.o.s.]

Are you joking?

Safe for work:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_jerk

This page began in 1999:
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/circle-jerk


Whatever personal affiliations and fond memories you may have of the term, Mike, this is not something I've made up.

[Moranis]

I feel bad for Embiid. Hopefully he gets healthy some day. I don't understand why people criticize Philly for picking him, he was clearly the right pick at the time at #3.

He was the right pick, although it did come with it's risk. The Sixers were willing to roll the dice after he had two different stress fractures, in just a few months, and they lost.

I do feel bad for Embiid. The kid had a bright, bright future. "Had" being the optimal word though. These type of injuries are devastating.

I do not feel for Hinkie, the Sixers organization, or their fans, which includes LarBrd33. They put out an inferior product and despite his many fans, Hinkie has set his franchise back years with a few questionable decisions that don't even include Embiid.

* Traded Thaddeus Young for Luc Mbah a Moute, Alexey Shved and Heat '16 1st-rounder (which at best is a mid rd pick)

* Traded Carter-Williams, who was cost controlled, for Lakers 2016 1st rd pick (the Lakers are improved and the draft is said to be weaker)

* Drafted Saric even though he's not projected to play for a few years and by the time he does come over he might no longer be under the rookie scale contract

Thad Young.  Seriously.  A guy that should never be starting on a good team has you all riled up.  And that Lakers pick was almost turned over this year for a guy that seems like an efficient volume scorer. 

The Sixers have tanked sure, but they haven't been the worst team in either of the last two seasons and the team that did finish in last year and won the first pick, also clearly tanked.  I mean they traded a 26/15 PF just entering his prime for a terrible #1 and an unproven rookie.  They then traded that same Thad Young for the sentiment of Kevin Garnett (who let's face it adds absolutely nothing on the court for a winning team, though is a good guy to have around a young tanking team).  That same Minnesota that also unloaded quality veterans like Corey Brewer.

Knicks clear and utter tank job.  Probably worse than the Sixers.  The Lakers went full on tank mode.

I don't get why teams like the Wolves, Knicks, and Lakers get a pass on tanking while everyone bemoans the Sixers.  And some of those teams tanked a lot harder than the Sixers did.

It doesn't have me worked up, it's just poor moves. The Young and MCW were pretty poor based on return. There is no other way to say it.

The Wolves situation is a poor comparison to the Sixers. They traded away Love, who was going to walk at season's end anyways, for Wiggins (the # 1 overall pick) and a bum (Bennett). Regardless of the latter, the trade was great value. They also traded away Young to open up minutes for their younger players, while giving the team a great mentor.

Lakers and Knicks may have tanked last season, albeit following the Kobe and Melo injuries, but it's not continuous like the Sixers has been. The last 3 years the Sixers have won 34, 19 and 18 games and another 20 game season looms.

But the 34 wasn't a tank job at all.  That was a result of Philly getting hosed on the Bynum injury report. 

One could argue that Philly got better value for Thad Young than Minny got for Kevin Love when you factor in the skill level of the player getting traded.  Love is significantly better than Young, and Young was going to walk at the end of the year as well. 

You are just holding Philly to a higher standard than other teams for no apparent reason.

I mean where were you when Seattle/OKC went into full on tank mode and was terrible for multiple seasons.  I didn't see the outcry then.

And come on with the MCW poor value nonsense.  He was the 11th pick in the weakest draft in 15 years and was traded in his second year for a pick that will almost certainly be a top 10 pick next summer. 

[D.o.s.]

^ because it wasn't explicitly spoonfed to fans the way the Philly tank job has been.

[MBunge]

Welp, it looks like the circle jerk is proceeding nicely. I think I'll leave the thread before I get any on my monitor.

I mean, we could go through and look at all the posts about how Rondo was going to come back and be just fine which, in hindsight, look significantly dumber. All it proves is that none of us can see the future.

Your self-congratulatory self-righteousness is overlooking two points.

1.  There's a difference between being optimistic about a proven NBA player coming back from injury and being in denial about a kid who couldn't make it through one season of college ball, even when there were still questions about his health a full year later.

2.  This is a Celtics board for Celtics fans.  It's normal for us to be stupid and stubborn about our players.  LarBrd is a guy who claims to be a Celtics fan while not only drooling over everything Hinkie does but dismisses everyone on the current Boston roster as "talentless mediocrities" while raving about the potential of Anthony Bennett, Bismack Biyombo and Nic Stuaskus.

If anyone ever deserves the "point and laugh" treatment, it is LarBrd at this moment.

Mike

I mean you compared Doug McDermott to Paul Pierce but I don't bring that up as evidence that you're an idiot. Maybe I should?

The Celtics, as constructed, are not a good team. Realizing that doesn't make you a bad fan. Obviously we're all free to disagree or whatever, but the backslapping leaves a bad taste in my mouth, that's all.

I remember saying nice things about McDermott but I can't recall stating "He's going to be as good as Paul Pierce."  If I did, please show me that quote because it would be a very good reminder to me to not be an idiot.

The Celtics, as constructed, had one of the best post-all star records in the league last year.  I don't know what next year holds for the team, but I do know there's a certain type of fan who thought they were going to suck and REALLY doesn't like being proven wrong.

I'm sorry if you're experiencing sympathy pains because you like to think you're smarter than everybody else here and you just saw someone with the same attitude get smacked around, but maybe you should have a little more self-awareness before you start white knighting.

Mike

[Moranis]

^ because it wasn't explicitly spoonfed to fans the way the Philly tank job has been.

ah I forgot the blind sheep phenomenon.  That probably explains it.

[colincb]

I will be very sad if we don´t ever get to see Embiid play. Kid has crazy talent.

I'm still trying to find some information on what exactly his second surgery entails.  It's rather strange, because everything I read suggested that he hadn't re-injured anything.  He was feeling 100%.  Everything seemed to suggest it had to do with the tissue around the bone not looking fully filled in yet.   So what is this surgery?   If he didn't re-break it... are there spider cracks or something?   Did they decide that re-breaking it clinically gives him the best shot of eventually being 100%?   Is it even the same kind of surgery or is it something supplementary to resolve something less serious?

I feel bad for the kid.  As a fan of basketball, I just want to see what Embiid can do out there.   Based on what I read leading up to today, they wanted to do whatever would give Embiid the best probable shot of playing 100% healthy long-term.   That organization is all about playing the odds.   So if they decided that surgery was the best option here, I guess that means it's Embiid's best shot to play long term.   Looks like Philly will be entering phase 3 of their tank.

My guess is it's likely a combination of not fully healing from the past surgery complicated by his continued growth. I don't think they actually planned for that variable when they carried out the first surgery. I'm pretty sure this is to give him the best chance at a healthy, long term career, and anyway they are not contending this year so why rush him back and risk re-injury when you can conduct a procedure to give him a much better chance at a 10-14 year career? He will be ready when Saric comes over, and by then they will have seen enough of Okafor and Noel to decide what to do with them. Not a 'sky is falling' picture for Phili as some people want to paint.

They still have 4 prospects with all-star to franchise-player level potential in Noel, Okafor, Embiid, and Saric, and we have maybe 1 in Smart.

I think Embiid was their best shot at an elite player, followed a great distance behind by Okafor, Noel, and Saric in order.

I watched all 3 of Okafor's SL games as well as several college and tourney games and his warts are obvious and as advertised. He's going to be a very good NBA player. All-star in some years because of his offense and the lack of competition, but he's not, as Ainge, would say "transcendent." Defensively, he's slow and experience/training can only offset so much of an inability to react. He'll probably be better than Al Jefferson, but he's no Tim Duncan.

Noel can't shoot from the field or line and that's a pretty negative indicator. Elite defensive big who is a below average rebounder for a big (Tied for 102nd in total rebound % with Brook Lopez and behind Tyler Zeller and 100 other bigs). Know of any all-stars who fit that profile?

Finally, I don't think Saric's going to translate well to the NBA game at all, but I have a strong opinion on him. Tweener swing who's not an elite shooter or defender. I'm not anti-Euro, and liked the two guys at the top this year, but Saric's got some major issues to overcome. I thought he was a pick that Philly made to tank also. He wasn't coming over and that fit Hinkie's tanking plans. A bit of a reach despite what the mocks said.

[LarBrd33]

Disagreements are the lifeblood of this forum.   If you want to see this place at it's most boring, go back to 2008.  Forum activity took a nose dive.  There was nothing to complain about.  We all just kind of stood around staring blankly at each other.  "This team is pretty good, yeah?"... "yeah".   I think the only time stuff got interesting was when someone declared that Kendrick Perkins was a better fit for our team than Hakeem in his prime.  Then I had to dust off the ol curmudgeon cranky-pants and see if I still had my disagreement sea legs. 

I'm going to be right sometimes.  I'm going to be wrong sometimes.  I'm a hardcore Celtic fan, but I'm an admitted pessimist and I don't take this all that seriously.  Nobody should take me all that seriously either.  I try to add to discussions whenever possible and it just so happens that my point of view usually goes against popular opinion.   It's not like I scan a thread, look for popular opinion and then intentionally argue against it.  Sometimes, it's surprising to me what the popular opinion actually is... like recently when I expressed satisfaction about the David Lee trade, looked around and saw that a lot of people were inexplicably unhappy with it.  But Boston fans notoriously slant towards optimistic homerism... so it shouldn't be a shock that an admitted pessimist would often disagree with the popular opinion.  (FWIW, Bill Simmons seems to be in the Boston pessimistic camp as well... which is probably why I tend to agree with him and why a large chunk of Celtic fans dislike him in spite of his obvious Celtic fandom).   

I liked Noel and Embiid well before they were on Philly.  I liked them when they were Celtic targets.  I still believe Noel is going to be a perennial all-defensive big and people are underselling his potential.  I still want Boston to get him.   People who know a lot more about basketball than I do insist that Embiid is a transcendent prospect.  Everyone was quick to bury him, because he plays on Philly and because the comparisons to Greg Oden are there... but I still maintain that nothing I read about Embiid coming from the actual team suggested this was a doomsday scenario.   And it's still not clear on the severity of his surgery.    Nonetheless, it seems I was wrong about Embiid.  It's not the first time I've been wrong.  But I don't regret any of the Embiid posts I made.   Was I naive to gloss over the media tweets about Embiid possibly needing surgery?  Should I have just joined along with everyone else and pre-maturely danced on Embiid's grave?  I mean... maybe?   I admitted many times that both sides were speculating.  I just happened to be speculating based on what I read directly from Embiid's camp, Bill Self, Hinkie and the 76ers CEO.  It didn't seem like surgery was a certainty.  GIven that it took several weeks and several doctors to apparently pull the trigger on surgery, I think I was right to be skeptical.   I'm still rather confused on what this surgery is about, though.  If it's to fix a re-break, it means that all the stuff I was reading for the 76ers camp (where they explicitly said he didn't re-injure himself and they were just seeing "different" results in the routine CT scan) was inaccurate. 

[MBunge]

Are you joking?

Safe for work:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_jerk

This page began in 1999:
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/circle-jerk


Whatever personal affiliations and fond memories you may have of the term, Mike, this is not something I've made up.

No one who means to say "echo chamber" ever says "circle jerk" by accident.  You know the image you were trying to conjure up and you know you were trying to insult people in the defense of LarBrd on an issue where they were proven right and he was proven wrong.  In what way is that not the behavior of a troll?

Mike

[tarheelsxxiii]

Long-time viewer of medical TV shows (e.g., House, Untold Stories of the E.R., Intervention, Celebrity Rehab with Dr. Drew) and  avid reader of medical books (e.g., House of God, Oliver Sacks, Brain on Fire, An Unquiet Mind) here.

So, I chose a life between Neurology and Clinical Neuropsychology and do have some expertise here. This is likely a case of Sarcoidosis, exacerbated by a staff infection. I agree with the 10-14 year estimate (in terms of life expectancy). His stock may never be higher.

[D.o.s.]

Welp, it looks like the circle jerk is proceeding nicely. I think I'll leave the thread before I get any on my monitor.

I mean, we could go through and look at all the posts about how Rondo was going to come back and be just fine which, in hindsight, look significantly dumber. All it proves is that none of us can see the future.

Your self-congratulatory self-righteousness is overlooking two points.

1.  There's a difference between being optimistic about a proven NBA player coming back from injury and being in denial about a kid who couldn't make it through one season of college ball, even when there were still questions about his health a full year later.

2.  This is a Celtics board for Celtics fans.  It's normal for us to be stupid and stubborn about our players.  LarBrd is a guy who claims to be a Celtics fan while not only drooling over everything Hinkie does but dismisses everyone on the current Boston roster as "talentless mediocrities" while raving about the potential of Anthony Bennett, Bismack Biyombo and Nic Stuaskus.

If anyone ever deserves the "point and laugh" treatment, it is LarBrd at this moment.

Mike

I mean you compared Doug McDermott to Paul Pierce but I don't bring that up as evidence that you're an idiot. Maybe I should?

The Celtics, as constructed, are not a good team. Realizing that doesn't make you a bad fan. Obviously we're all free to disagree or whatever, but the backslapping leaves a bad taste in my mouth, that's all.

I remember saying nice things about McDermott but I can't recall stating "He's going to be as good as Paul Pierce."  If I did, please show me that quote because it would be a very good reminder to me to not be an idiot.

The Celtics, as constructed, had one of the best post-all star records in the league last year.  I don't know what next year holds for the team, but I do know there's a certain type of fan who thought they were going to suck and REALLY doesn't like being proven wrong.

I'm sorry if you're experiencing sympathy pains because you like to think you're smarter than everybody else here and you just someone with the same attitude get smacked around, but maybe you should have a little more self-awareness before you start white knighting.

Mike

I don't like to think I'm smarter than everyone else here. I do know that I am smarter about some things than some and dumber about other things than others. As do you, assuredly -- Otherwise I have a Marcus Smart for Kevin Durant trade I'd like to sell you.

I don't think there's anything wrong with calling someone out in the context of an argument (obviously), I just think it's as little lame to do it whenever a thread about that particular player appears. And I said so. And people got butthurt because I pulled a celticsclay and said "hey maybe that's not a nice thing to post on CB." So it goes.

I misremembered the Pierce thing, by the way. Apologies for that. The thread is here.
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=70026.0

[Endless Paradise]

Between the 1998-99 season and the 2011-12 season, Philly made the playoffs ten times and that included a run to The Finals.  Before the last 3 seasons, they had made the playoffs 4 out of 5 years and that included a first round playoff victory.  They were not the Timberwolves.  They were not the Kings.  They were a regular playoff contender in the East.

They were a regular playoff "contender" since the Finals run in the same sense that the Hawks pre-2014 were a playoff "contender." Which is to say they were not a contender at all, unless you also argue that last year's Celtics and Nets teams were true "contenders" and not just teams that happened to qualify for the playoffs.

That one playoff victory you're citing was an upset over a Bulls team that lost Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah during the course of the series.

Philly was the definition of a mediocre team for well over a decade and there's no type of argument you'll be able to make to convince me otherwise.

The Magic have also not been tanking.  They've been rebuilding since Dwight said "I'm not playing for you any more."

I don't care to get into the semantics debate about the fundamental difference between "tanking" and "rebuilding" (because there is no fundamental difference).

Philly started off their tank for trading away their best player, an all-star, for a player who was injured and wasn't going to suit up for an entire season.

I mean, sure, if that's how you want to dress up the Jrue Holiday trade, that's your prerogative. It's just as absurd as retroactively painting the Pierce-KG Nets trade as "Ainge traded away two future Hall of Famers for flotsam and draft picks that weren't even immediately going to help the team," but it's your right.

[D.o.s.]

Are you joking?

Safe for work:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_jerk

This page began in 1999:
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/circle-jerk


Whatever personal affiliations and fond memories you may have of the term, Mike, this is not something I've made up.

No one who means to say "echo chamber" ever says "circle jerk" by accident.  You know the image you were trying to conjure up and you know you were trying to insult people in the defense of LarBrd on an issue where they were proven right and he was proven wrong.  In what way is that not the behavior of a troll?

Mike

I didn't say circle jerk by accident. I said circle jerk because it's a slang term for an echo chamber. This is not a complicated series of events, particularly if you're aware of what synonyms are.

I am also, again, not trying to defend LB33. I just think the corpse dancing is lame, and I am almost certain I would have been warned/banned if I had done the same thing. The double standard irks me.

[D.o.s.]

^ because it wasn't explicitly spoonfed to fans the way the Philly tank job has been.

ah I forgot the blind sheep phenomenon.  That probably explains it.

On NBA Open court this June Steve Smith said he had never heard the term 'tanking' "before a couple of years ago." Does that seem realistic to you?

Link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_qf01WfNZE

At about the 4:00 mark.