Author Topic: Monroe + Harris + Current Core = Welcome to the treadmill!  (Read 10617 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Are the Celtics in No Man's land?
« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2015, 08:00:38 PM »

Offline GreenWarrior

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3275
  • Tommy Points: 228
not quite "no man's land". but we're pretty close. we have no star, our draft picks that we thought would be assets have turned out to be nothing more than a lot of draft picks...that we're apparently going to have to use...so yeah we're very close.

we'd be in a much better position had we tanked as soon as we traded pierce & KG.

also the fact that everyone knows we've never had any intention of using all these draft picks doesn't help. I mean, yes it's obvious we can't use them all. but running around telling everyone we want to trade for established players makes us look like beggars and puts us at a disadvantage in negotiations imo.

Re: Are the Celtics in No Man's land?
« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2015, 08:11:40 PM »

Offline Lucky17

  • DKC Commish
  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16021
  • Tommy Points: 2352
not quite "no man's land". but we're pretty close. we have no star, our draft picks that we thought would be assets have turned out to be nothing more than a lot of draft picks...that we're apparently going to have to use...so yeah we're very close.

we'd be in a much better position had we tanked as soon as we traded pierce & KG.

also the fact that everyone knows we've never had any intention of using all these draft picks doesn't help. I mean, yes it's obvious we can't use them all. but running around telling everyone we want to trade for established players makes us look like beggars and puts us at a disadvantage in negotiations imo.

It's true: the 28 other GMs in the NBA won't consider somewhere between 4 and 6 future draft picks for a single pick. Ainge has no one else to trade with.
DKC League is now on reddit!: http://www.reddit.com/r/dkcleague

Re: Are the Celtics in No Man's land?
« Reply #47 on: June 29, 2015, 08:19:27 PM »

Offline tankcity!

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1903
  • Tommy Points: 129
No man's land involves:

-Having an existing roster that has reached its ceiling and is unlikely to improve
-Having a paucity of draft picks and other assets with which to improve the team, either by drafting a player who contributes, bringing in a draft-and-stash guy who you have the rights to, or trading those assets for a useful player
-Having little cap flexibility that allows you to sign free agents or make trades in which you bring in significantly more salary than you send out

None of these apply to the Celtics.  Boston has a young roster with a lot of future picks (including some with lottery potential), and a good cap situation.

But we're already 2 years into the rebuild and haven't won a championship yet!!!!1!! Clearly this team is never gonna contend again, all thanks to Danny "Awful" Ainge

I'm not concerned with waiting if there is a reason to wait, but the Celtics don't even have a young prospect to build around. At least the old regime had hope with Jefferson, Rondo, and Gerald Green (Who was very hyped at the time). All I'm saying is year two is over, and we don't have much to offer in trades with the execption of the Brooklyn Pick. And oh yeah, the Celtics are going to try any make the playoffs next year so you can kiss getting a good first round pick goodbye.

Re: Are the Celtics in No Man's land?
« Reply #48 on: June 29, 2015, 08:21:22 PM »

Offline Lucky17

  • DKC Commish
  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16021
  • Tommy Points: 2352
If the Celtics make the playoffs next year, it means the Nets won't, and a lottery pick comes to Boston.
DKC League is now on reddit!: http://www.reddit.com/r/dkcleague

Re: Are the Celtics in No Man's land?
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2015, 08:25:36 PM »

Offline tankcity!

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1903
  • Tommy Points: 129
If the Celtics make the playoffs next year, it means the Nets won't, and a lottery pick comes to Boston.

Even if the Celtics don't make the playoffs, they're still going to be towards the end of the lottery with Brooklyn...Don't you see that???

Brooklyn isn't tanking. The only hope is that Lopez ends up getting injured and the Nets stink. But I'm not holding out hope on someone getting injured, that's just bad karma.

Re: Are the Celtics in No Man's land?
« Reply #50 on: June 29, 2015, 08:27:21 PM »

Offline Lucky17

  • DKC Commish
  • JoJo White
  • ****************
  • Posts: 16021
  • Tommy Points: 2352
If the Celtics make the playoffs next year, it means the Nets won't, and a lottery pick comes to Boston.

Even if the Celtics don't make the playoffs, they're still going to be towards the end of the lottery with Brooklyn...Don't you see that???

Brooklyn isn't tanking. The only hope is that Lopez ends up getting injured and the Nets stink. But I'm not holding out hope on someone getting injured, that's just bad karma.

Brooklyn isn't winning either. They have limited means to improve their roster around a resigned Lopez.

Brooklyn is the team in no man's land. Not Boston.
DKC League is now on reddit!: http://www.reddit.com/r/dkcleague

Re: Are the Celtics in No Man's land?
« Reply #51 on: June 29, 2015, 08:30:57 PM »

Offline clappy

  • Jordan Walsh
  • Posts: 22
  • Tommy Points: 4
One of these picks has hit eventually. And hopefully an existing player takes a giant leap forward. At the very least that would give us some more valuable chips to play with. So yeah, were going to need some luck, but I remain hopeful.

Re: Are the Celtics in No Man's land?
« Reply #52 on: June 29, 2015, 08:33:06 PM »

Offline Forza Juventus

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 964
  • Tommy Points: 70
Our roster is a mess. Ainge screwed up really bad on draft night. The Brooklyn picks, Dallas pick, etc better turn out good. Ainge is obsessed with "flexibility" but every team will have that when the cap goes up and "flexibility" is a good excuse for having a mess of a roster.
Azzurri | Juventus | Boston Celtics | Kentucky Basketball

"All the negativity that’s on Celticsblog sucks. I’ve been around when Kyrie Irving was criticized. I’ve been around when Al Horford was insulted. And it stinks. It makes the greatest team, greatest fans in the world, lousy."

Celticsblog=sports radio

Re: Are the Celtics in No Man's land?
« Reply #53 on: June 29, 2015, 08:35:33 PM »

Offline tankcity!

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1903
  • Tommy Points: 129
One of these picks has hit eventually. And hopefully an existing player takes a giant leap forward. At the very least that would give us some more valuable chips to play with. So yeah, were going to need some luck, but I remain hopeful.

Thank you for being honest. I agree and am hoping the same.

Re: Monroe + Harris + Current Core = Welcome to the treadmill!
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2015, 08:37:18 PM »

Offline gpap

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8224
  • Tommy Points: 417
The premise of this thread is ridiculous.

If the Celts add two very talented players like Harris and Monroe, we are FAR better than an 8th seed.

We would be lucky to have both guys on our roster.

Re: Monroe + Harris + Current Core = Welcome to the treadmill!
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2015, 08:37:25 PM »

Offline mmmmm

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5308
  • Tommy Points: 862
I put this on the other board but I figured it fit this topic.  I was wondering if you really think this team would be a "treadmill team" if you actually look at what could be done. 

Trades

Cleveland
B. Haywood
Draft rights to PF R. Christmas
2016 or 2017 2nd rounder

to

Celtics
E. Turner
Draft rights to SG/PG M. Thornton
Bostons 2016 1st

Why do we do this?  B. Haywood is no guaranteed, takes a good amount of money off the books 10.5 million  Get back a young power forward/center in Christmas.  Cleveland does this because they get the 1st round pick next year they want.  A probably cheaper version of J.R. Smith who they've talked about wanting to keep, but could now let go.  M. Thornton gives them a young guard who can play the point or shooting guard, just as well as Turner can do the same.   


Second trade involves 76ers

76ers
Nerlens Noel

to

Celtics - This could be change with pieces if they rather an Avery Bradley.  But this is ideal what I think works out really for best for us and them.
Kelly Olynyk
Draft rights to Terry Rozier
Chris Babb
2016 Dallas 1st
One or two of the 2016 2nd round picks we have

Why do we do this?  Well it's easy to see, Nerlens Noel gives us our young rim protector, gives up a few picks that we won't be able to use, save us money.  The bigger question most reading is why would 76ers do this, breaking it down piece by piece.  Kelly Olynyk gives them a big to replace Noel but can play beside Okafor I believe better, he doesn't play under the hoop, he's more of a big stretch 4.  Plus fill there role and would be a nice back up for either Okafor or Embiid.  Terry Rozier, a good player but I don't think fits well in Boston with Smart and IT and Bradley.  (Also I rather keep Smart, Bradley, IT over this rookie.  But I do really like Roziers game and is worth a 1st round pick.)  It gives 76ers a starter young point guard that can grow with the team and Okafor.  Chris Babb is a good throw in piece to give them a cheap player who has shown flashes of ball skills.  Then obviously a 1st rounder and 1 or 2 2nd rounder gives them more picks.


Resign Free Agent

Jae Crowder the only resign we do.

Two Max Deals (Believe this can happen because of the Haywood deal after letting him go.  Plus with the other trades giving more cap rooms.  If can get them each for a little under the max, it'll work out the best for us.)

Small Forward - Tobias Harris
Power Forward - Greg Monroe


Without getting too on how realistic this whole scenario may or may not be (the Philly transactions may be the toughest to sell), assuming you acquired the Brendan Haywood contract, in the first, you can turn around and trade it to match up to 15.5M in incoming salary.  That gives you a disposable contract to match either Harris or Monroe, making acquiring one of them in a S&T very easy.

For the other, you could send Wallace' expiring 10M contract plus Babb's non-guaranteed contract plus a medium-quality 1st round draft pick to pay for the other team absorbing the 10M cost of GW's contract.  Since they can subsequently stretch Wallace, they only take on a 3.3M cap hit (though they still pay the full 10M).   That won't be felt much once the salary cap jumps by 22M next season.

So, you can acquire both Harris and Monroe on full max contracts (15.3M each) without having to renounce everything to get way under the cap.   You might have to send something (a player or pick) of value to Orlando to facilitate the S&T of Harris, since he is an RFA.  But for Monroe, being an UFA, Detroit can only expect modest compensation for facilitating the deal.

Some alternative steps that can be mixed in is to trade for other contracts that are all or partially non-guaranteed and then package them.  Or possibly taking a bad contract back, though Danny probably wouldn't take back anything larger than the Prince TPE.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Monroe + Harris + Current Core = Welcome to the treadmill!
« Reply #56 on: June 29, 2015, 09:01:14 PM »

Offline danglertx

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2015
  • Tommy Points: 210
What the OP really doesn't get, is that signing Harris and Monroe hardly makes us a treadmill because for the next three years, THREE YEARS in all caps so you can get it, our (hopefully) best first round draft pick will have nothing to do with whether or not we make the playoffs. 

If we get the 8th seed, we only need Brooklynn to miss the playoffs.  And if we happen to miss the playoffs, which apparently he feels is very possible with an injury or two since without we are only an 8th seed, then we might get two lottery picks. 

Re: Are the Celtics in No Man's land?
« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2015, 09:08:23 PM »

Offline tarheelsxxiii

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8593
  • Tommy Points: 1389
Agreed, of course. Thanks for writing this up so I can say "Agreed" rather than being a jerk and cutting everyone down (Sorry to those - my reactivity/anger re: the team has admittedly gotten a bit out of control). I'll cool it down.
The Tarstradamus Group, LLC

Re: Monroe + Harris + Current Core = Welcome to the treadmill!
« Reply #58 on: June 29, 2015, 09:34:11 PM »

Offline Fred Roberts

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1534
  • Tommy Points: 102
Wow. This poster forgets about the fact that the Celtics have top tier owners, front office and coaching personnel.

That will get the most out of the talent on the team and ensure we continue to improve year to year.

Getting young studs in Harris and Monroe totally helps us. We become top 5 level contenders at least in the East with a young core on the upswing, INCREDIBLE depth, and INCREDIBLE future assets to continue tweaking, drafting, trading and improving.

This attitude is silly. Next year's draft is supposed to be weak anyways. Celts are undeniably on the upswing and Monroe + Harris is a step in the right direction.

Re: Monroe + Harris + Current Core = Welcome to the treadmill!
« Reply #59 on: June 29, 2015, 10:06:34 PM »

Offline tankcity!

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1903
  • Tommy Points: 129
I put this on the other board but I figured it fit this topic.  I was wondering if you really think this team would be a "treadmill team" if you actually look at what could be done. 

Trades

Cleveland
B. Haywood
Draft rights to PF R. Christmas
2016 or 2017 2nd rounder

to

Celtics
E. Turner
Draft rights to SG/PG M. Thornton
Bostons 2016 1st

Why do we do this?  B. Haywood is no guaranteed, takes a good amount of money off the books 10.5 million  Get back a young power forward/center in Christmas.  Cleveland does this because they get the 1st round pick next year they want.  A probably cheaper version of J.R. Smith who they've talked about wanting to keep, but could now let go.  M. Thornton gives them a young guard who can play the point or shooting guard, just as well as Turner can do the same.   


Second trade involves 76ers

76ers
Nerlens Noel

to

Celtics - This could be change with pieces if they rather an Avery Bradley.  But this is ideal what I think works out really for best for us and them.
Kelly Olynyk
Draft rights to Terry Rozier
Chris Babb
2016 Dallas 1st
One or two of the 2016 2nd round picks we have

Why do we do this?  Well it's easy to see, Nerlens Noel gives us our young rim protector, gives up a few picks that we won't be able to use, save us money.  The bigger question most reading is why would 76ers do this, breaking it down piece by piece.  Kelly Olynyk gives them a big to replace Noel but can play beside Okafor I believe better, he doesn't play under the hoop, he's more of a big stretch 4.  Plus fill there role and would be a nice back up for either Okafor or Embiid.  Terry Rozier, a good player but I don't think fits well in Boston with Smart and IT and Bradley.  (Also I rather keep Smart, Bradley, IT over this rookie.  But I do really like Roziers game and is worth a 1st round pick.)  It gives 76ers a starter young point guard that can grow with the team and Okafor.  Chris Babb is a good throw in piece to give them a cheap player who has shown flashes of ball skills.  Then obviously a 1st rounder and 1 or 2 2nd rounder gives them more picks.


Resign Free Agent

Jae Crowder the only resign we do.

Two Max Deals (Believe this can happen because of the Haywood deal after letting him go.  Plus with the other trades giving more cap rooms.  If can get them each for a little under the max, it'll work out the best for us.)

Small Forward - Tobias Harris
Power Forward - Greg Monroe

One more free agent.
Bring home Paul Pierce. (Could be a pipe dream but I think with this team together in the east he'd think about this.


Celtics After these trades and free agents. 

Point Guards - Marcus Smart, Isaiah Thomas
Shooting Guard - Avery Bradley, James Young, R.J. Hunter
Small Forward - Tobias Harris, Paul Pierce, Jae Crowder, Gerald Wallace
Power Forward - Greg Monroe, Jared Sullinger, Jordan Mickey, Rakeem Christmas
Center - Nerlens Noel, Tyler Zeller

Mind you our power forwards can play center when needed.  Same as our small forwards can play some shooting guards like a Piece or Crowder.  While Bradley could play some point and Smart could play some shooting guard. 

We'd have 15 players under contract as this sits, able to dress 13 with the new rules.  So we'd be able to put Christmas, Hunter, Young, Mickey, any of them down in the d-league to keep improving.  Also with keeping Wallace you're able to either stretch him if needed for cap room to make this happen, or you're able to trade him at the deadline.  I believe this team could definitely contend in the East and maybe bring us deep into the playoffs, plus keeps us young and still having draft picks.

This is best case scenario, before people jump saying this is stupid.

This would be a pretty good team, not going to lie. I don't however think Noel and Monroe complement each other. Monroe is a C.