The stretch 5 is the next big thing in the NBA

[The Oracle]

  People on this forum are so asleep on guys like Kelly Olynyk.  Wanting to give him away to move up 4 or 6 spots in the draft is just ridiculous.  Every team in the leagues analytics have exposed (or should have) just how valuable a center that can stretch the floor to the 3 pt. line as well as play even average defense can be.  The NBA has had very few such players because typically big men cant shoot from distance do to a variety of factors.  This is beginning to change and teams will regret not grabbing them if they have the chance.

  There are at least 4 of these guys in this draft that project to fill this role and teams are going to be fighting for them, they include Towns, Porzingis, Kaminsky and Turner.  They wont even need to be great defenders to be effective because when paired properly with a stretch 4 that is not a chair on defense they will be nearly impossible to defend.  Teams with defensive centers like Hibbert or Asik will be forced to pull them off the floor to have any chance to compete against these line-ups as them defending 20+ feet from the hoop renders them worthless.

  I would fully expect that the Celtics will be trying everything to move up to acquire at least 1 of these guys.  All of them will likely be drafted higher then most people think!

[wdleehi]

No, big men are still needed.



Men that can be the backbone to a teams defense.  A guy that can close the lane.


See teams like Memphis, LA Clippers, Spurs, Houston, Portland, and Golden State.  (notice the size of their starting C)


Cleveland turned around the season when they added a big man. 




Plus, Olynyk is not an NBA C.  He is a stretch 4. 

[BudweiserCeltic]

If only Olynyk wasn't completely useless in the playoffs...

Well, he did that thing with the shoulder... OK, he was spectacular!

[Tr1boy]

No.

Unless you have a Draymond Green and the rest of the guys committed to grab defensive rebounds

You saw what happened with Mozgov vs KO.   

The issue really is there aren't many dominant big man right now.   The next Shaq/Hakeem (destroy you from the post) for example will have teams moving away from small ball and back to big man ball

[loco_91]

Well, I agree that someone like Towns can be a game-changer. Against a defender like Hibbert, he can stretch. Against a smaller quicker defender, he can go in the post. He can guard the post and the P&R.

A guy like Olynyk though is no such nightmare. Sure he can pull a rim-protecting center away from the rim, but then he's liable to get punished in equal measure on the other end. And unless your 4 is just as deadly from range, teams can cross-match their 4 onto him, and he can't punish the 4 in the post.

I think the league is moving toward versatility. People need to have well-rounded skillsets to take advantage of different matchups. Play inside and out. That's why I love Towns, who can play both ends inside and out, and WCS, who can play inside and out on defense. But I don't love Porzingis, who only plays out, or Okafor, who only plays in, and that's why Olynyk is merely an average rotation player.

[Lucky17]

It's not about a stretch five.

It's about a five quick enough to guard smaller players on defensive switches and explosive/dextrous enough to roll to the hoop and finish in the pick and roll.

http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/238305/The-Paradigm-Shift-For-NBA-Backup-Centers

[celticsfan8591]

A stretch 5 is a center who can stretch the floor on offense and rebound and protect the rim at an acceptable level on defense.  KO right now only satisfies one half of that equation.  Maybe he'll improve on the defensive end, but until he does he is very expendable.

[Tr1boy]

It's not about a stretch five.

It's about a five quick enough to guard smaller players on defensive switches and explosive/dextrous enough to roll to the hoop and finish in the pick and roll.

http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/238305/The-Paradigm-Shift-For-NBA-Backup-Centers

But also like Dray Green if they can shoot it causes big problems.  Mozgov was near useless in the defensive end

[Rosco917]

More than a stretch 5, I think nimble, athletic, quicker 5's will be desirable. The slow, stiff, aircraft carrier type of 5's (like Roy Hibbert), may be going out of favor. The long, quick leaping 6' 10" 6'11" 245 lb. athletic center, with good lateral movement, that can run the floor, and yes shoot the ball, will function better with a team that is built for speed. (Like a Larry Sanders who really loves the game of basketball)

I'm sure Kelly Olynyk, who has few of the above traits, is what they're talking about.
   

[Tr1boy]

More than a stretch 5, I think nimble, athletic, quicker 5's will be desirable. The slow, stiff, aircraft carrier type of 5's (like Roy Hibbert), may be going out of favor. The long, quick leaping 6' 10" 6'11" 245 lb. athletic center, with good lateral movement, that can run the floor, and yes shoot the ball, will function better with a team that is built for speed. (Like a Larry Sanders who really loves the game of basketball)

I'm sure Kelly Olynyk, who has few of the above traits, is what they're talking about.
   

larry sanders loves something else also.  Ruined his whole nba career bc of it. Not very smart

[knuckleballer]

I seem to recall a 38 year old Tim Duncan winning a championship a season ago.  It was a long time ago, but if memory serves, I believe a 37 year old Tim Duncan came very close to winning way back in 2013 as well.

[crimson_stallion]

I think it's all just a huge fad to be honest - the NBA goes through phases just like any business / market, and this is (I think) another one.

Soon every team will get filled with Centers and Power Forwards that can shoot, so all teams will start filling their teams with smaller and more mobile Centers and Power Forwards so they can defend said players...

The one crazy team out there will go "hey, look at all these small defenders out there...I'm going to try my luck with an old school low post big man". 

Then no team in the NBA will be able to defend that guy, everybody's small and agile 6'7 & 6'9" front line will get fouled out on a daily basis, said player with average 28 PPG, and the world will say "well, this whole stretch 5 thing don't work no more, maybe the post up big wasn't a bad idea after all.."

One team does something, finds it successful.  Every team changes to adjust to what that team does.  Eventually all teams then end up pretty much the same...until one team says "screw this, I'm trying something different" and breaks everybody apart. Then every team looks at what they did, says "hey ill try that too" and before you know it every team has that.

NBA is all about adjustments.

That's why in my eyes, it still is (and always will be) about balance. 

Have a stretch PF who can extend range to the three point line, and combine him with a powerful center who will wreak havoc in the post.  C draws double teams, kicks it out to fellow PF for the open three.  Defense tries to play the perimeter, PF dumps it inside to the C for an easy basket in the post.

Rinse, repeat.

The only team who's going to be able to consistently defend that is a team who has both an elite interior big man (like Hibbert) who can defend the post AND an very good mobile defensive big man (like Draymond Green) who can chase guys on the perimeter. 

With the exception of Golden State, how many teams have BOTH of those things, while also still getting significant offense from their front court? 

I say not many.

This is why I actually like the idea of a Kevin Love / Demarcus Cousins front line - even though I really, really, really, really don't like Kevin Love.

Those two guys combined would be one of the most difficult duo's in the NBA to defend.

[crimson_stallion]

A stretch 5 is a center who can stretch the floor on offense and rebound and protect the rim at an acceptable level on defense.  KO right now only satisfies one half of that equation.  Maybe he'll improve on the defensive end, but until he does he is very expendable.

Well Olynyk has shown he can shoot and he can rebound at a decent level too.  Protecting the rim is a challenge, though his defensive numbers this year (aside from rim protection) were actually quite good.

I could see Olynyk becoming a pretty solid P&R defender because he's actually more mobile than he looks, and he does a very good job of stepping in front and taking charges even if he isn't an outright shot blocker.

I really think he's going to be a nice player.  Not a star by any means, but a nice player - one of those glue guys who just makes every team he goes to better (e.g. Andre Iguodala).

[The Oracle]

  My guess is that the Celtics are trying to get Porzingis to fall to 4 and the Knicks because a deal is in place for some combination of Bradley, Sully, Zeller or Turner and a pick or 2.  Having both Porzi and Olynyk next year would be awesome and really open some eyes on this board.  The league is desperate for stretch bigs of any kind right now let alone 7 ft. centers.  Just look at the trade rumors and see who teams are trying to dump Plumlee, Zeller etc.  Spacing is king and defensive minded one way bigs crush it!