Stein: Celtics have better assets to land DMC than Nuggets

[BudweiserCeltic]

That #2 pick that the Lakers are holding is darn close to trumping what the Celtics can throw at SAC right now.  Add Randle to the picture and I'm not sure the Celtics can do anything in terms of matching that.

That's because you have the Lakers using pretty much their best (and only) assets. When the Celtics packages are being considered we rarely include our main trade assets and simply talk about picks.

We have plenty of young players, talented and skilled, in cost effective contracts. We have a plethora of valuable draft picks.

IF we  wanted to, we should be able to outbid the Lakers. It would be costly though.

But #2 + Randle is not enough to the totality of what we can offer.

[TheFlex]

Just because they have better assets than Denver doesn't mean they have better assets than the other 10 teams that would probably be interested in Cousins.

See above.

Not really sure what the point is here.

Could the Celtics perhaps help to facilitate an eventual Cousins deal and get some value out of it?  Sure.  All those draft picks make it easy for the Celtics to insert themselves into nearly any major trade discussion. 

Do the draft picks and role players move the needle as far as actually getting one of the major players that becomes available?  Don't bet on it.

This doesn't seem to be what Stein is implying. I don't believe he's suggesting that the Celts have the assets to net a nice piece in a deal that sends Cousins to another team. He seems to be propping up Boston as a legitimate landing spot for Cousins.

Also, "draft picks and role players" seems to be a simplistic mischaracterization of the Celts' assets. I am in wholehearted agreement that we don't have an a singular asset on par with the #2 pick. But if it is true that the Kings would prefer a more wholesome package that includes veteran players -- and that Karl appears to be anti-star -- I believe the Celts would have a shot.

Celts send: Avery Bradley, Kelly Olynyk, Tyler Zeller, James Young, #16, #28, future Brooklyn 1st
Celts receive: DeMarcus Cousins

Bulls send: Taj Gibson, Tony Snell
Bulls receive: Avery Bradley, #28

Heat send: #10
Heat receive: Tyler Zeller, #16

Kings send: Cousins
Kings receive: Olynyk, Zeller, Young, Gibson, Snell, #10, future Brooklyn 1st

Collison/Stauskas
McLemore/Young
Gay/Tony Snell
Taj Gibson/Carl Landry
Kelly Olynyk/Myles Turner

+ Brooklyn 1st

Can someone with the time research what other offers were out there for Melo a few years ago? Did a team with a more appealing concentration of assets lose out to New York's more complete offer? This would be very relevant to gauge Karl's influence on any potential deals.

Still not enough for DMC. You also wrote Zeller twice in the trades.

But still its at least intriguing enough to know some reporters have mentioned us as possible suitors. At some point the Celics have to at least hit one good FA. Maybe, LMA and Wesley Matthews could come here?

Yep, and I forgot to add who the Kings pick at #6 in their potential lineup (Winslow). Trying to write this hurriedly in between PowerPoint slides during class. TP for the correction.

[LilRip]

I read that the Kings want vets, so I don't know if they'll be as interested in the #2 pick vs. a proven vet/borderline all-star/allstar. So it seems like for the C's to end up with Cousins, it'll have to at least be a 3-team trade with the 3rd team getting the bulk of our young players/picks.

[Donoghus]

That #2 pick that the Lakers are holding is darn close to trumping what the Celtics can throw at SAC right now.  Add Randle to the picture and I'm not sure the Celtics can do anything in terms of matching that.

That's because you have the Lakers using pretty much their best (and only) assets. When the Celtics packages are being considered we rarely include our main trade assets and simply talk about picks.

We have plenty of young players, talented and skilled, in cost effective contracts. We have a plethora of valuable draft picks.

IF we  wanted to, we should be able to outbid the Lakers. It would be costly though.

But #2 + Randle is not enough to the totality of what we can offer.

That's pretty obvious but what deal could the Celtics realistically propose (without grossing overpaying) that would trump a proposed Lakers package of #2 pick/Randle/filler?

The answer should be fairly easy to see.

[TheTruthFot18]

I don't see how we can match an Okafor (#2) and Randle package....but one thing I'm sure works in our favor is the simple fact we are on the opposite coast and in the eastern division.  Imagine being the Kings and getting trounced by a Cousins led Lakers or Nuggets team. 

My hope is that we can somehow benefit from the fallout of a major trade....lottery pick or a starter level player.

I'm not sure that's a great return for DMC. Arguably a top 5 player (top 3 center) for two unproven rookies, one coming off a broken leg his first pro game. These trades do include rookies/potential stars but they also must include 2md/3rd year guys on rookie contracts who are over performing and can replace that missing star (Eric Gordan for CP3, Gallo and Chandler for Melo, Big Al for KG). 

[BudweiserCeltic]

That #2 pick that the Lakers are holding is darn close to trumping what the Celtics can throw at SAC right now.  Add Randle to the picture and I'm not sure the Celtics can do anything in terms of matching that.

That's because you have the Lakers using pretty much their best (and only) assets. When the Celtics packages are being considered we rarely include our main trade assets and simply talk about picks.

We have plenty of young players, talented and skilled, in cost effective contracts. We have a plethora of valuable draft picks.

IF we  wanted to, we should be able to outbid the Lakers. It would be costly though.

But #2 + Randle is not enough to the totality of what we can offer.

That's pretty obvious but what deal could the Celtics realistically propose (without grossing overpaying) that would trump a proposed Lakers package of #2 pick/Randle/filler?

The answer should be fairly easy to see.

Smart, Zeller, picks, filler...

You have Turner, Bradley, Olynyk, Sullinger, Young to throw in the pot as needed. And Thomas, but doubt Sacramento want him back (though his good contract might make them feel otherwise).

I don't know at what point it becomes an overpay, but I don't see the Lakers having this varied mix of options with proven players to add to it, not merely pure potential from players who haven't touched the NBA floor yet, or barely.

[PhoSita]

Kings receive: Olynyk, Young, Gibson, Snell, #10, future Brooklyn 1st

You concocted an extremely complex four team deal and still, the best you could come up with for the Kings was a pu pu platter of assets, none of which is even a surefire starter, let alone a potential star.


Look, the Kings are incompetent, so anything is possible, but if they trade Cousins for that kind of haul, Divac is borderline braindead.

If Cousins were coming off a major knee injury and had been noticeably dogging it for the past year or more with his current team -- a la our old friend Rondo last fall -- the package you propose would be closer to competitive. 

But instead, he's coming off his best season yet, he's 24 years old, healthy, and all indications are that it is the Kings franchise, not Cousins, that is hopelessly dysfunctional.

[TheFlex]

Kings receive: Olynyk, Young, Gibson, Snell, #10, future Brooklyn 1st

You concocted an extremely complex four team deal and still, the best you could come up with for the Kings was a pu pu platter of assets, none of which is even a surefire starter, let alone a potential star.


Look, the Kings are incompetent, so anything is possible, but if they trade Cousins for that kind of haul, Divac is borderline braindead.

If Cousins were coming off a major knee injury and had been noticeably dogging it for the past year or more with his current team -- a la our old friend Rondo last fall -- the package you propose would be closer to competitive. 

But instead, he's coming off his best season yet, he's 24 years old, healthy, and all indications are that it is the Kings franchise, not Cousins, that is hopelessly dysfunctional.

I do agree that the Celts would have to throw at least one of another Brooklyn pick, Smart or Sullinger to get the deal done, but the offer I proposed is a good initial feeler that I think would grab Sacramento's attention. As BudweiserCeltic said, I don't think it's so much about our ability to land Cousins but rather our desire to completely empty out the coffers for Cousins. If we wanted to, we could offer Smart, Young, Sullinger, Olynyk and 2 Brooklyn picks and have Cousins in green tomorrow. But we'll have to wait and see how far Danny is willing to go.

[Irish Stew]

That #2 pick that the Lakers are holding is darn close to trumping what the Celtics can throw at SAC right now.  Add Randle to the picture and I'm not sure the Celtics can do anything in terms of matching that.

Totally agree. Too many posters are confusing quantity with quality.

[PhoSita]

If we wanted to, we could offer Smart, Young, Sullinger, Olynyk and 2 Brooklyn picks and have Cousins in green tomorrow.

So what you propose is essentially trading the vast majority of the roster and coffer of assets for Cousins.

The question is really, then, would the Kings want to swap rosters and draft assets with the Celtics?

We spend so much time puffing up our plucky young team, our boy wonder coach, and our fearless GM that we have to believe that this moribund franchise in Sacramento would want to switch places with us, right?

But of course, the reason the Celtics would consider doing such a deal is because one great asset in the NBA is always worth more than a cascade of lesser assets.  Quality wins out over quantity, pretty much always.  That's the hole in which the Celtics find themselves.  Nobody is swapping quality for the Celtics' quantity.

[Endless Paradise]

If we wanted to, we could offer Smart, Young, Sullinger, Olynyk and 2 Brooklyn picks and have Cousins in green tomorrow.

We spend so much time puffing up our plucky young team, our boy wonder coach, and our fearless GM that we have to believe that this moribund franchise in Sacramento would want to switch places with us, right?

But of course, the reason the Celtics would consider doing such a deal is because one great asset in the NBA is always worth more than a cascade of lesser assets.  Quality wins out over quantity, pretty much always.  That's the hole in which the Celtics find themselves.  Nobody is swapping quality for the Celtics' quantity.

To be fair, that's the conundrum all teams face when trading a star player. That said, yeah, Sacramento isn't your average mediocre team in need of a rebuild. They've effectively been rebuilding for close to a decade, which is why the Woj report about the Kings preferring proven veterans makes sense. Whereas a team like the Raptors, for example, might be interested in a teardown and the Celtics' young players and assets, the Kings aren't and probably can't even afford to be interested.

[heyvik]

That #2 pick that the Lakers are holding is darn close to trumping what the Celtics can throw at SAC right now.  Add Randle to the picture and I'm not sure the Celtics can do anything in terms of matching that.

That's because you have the Lakers using pretty much their best (and only) assets. When the Celtics packages are being considered we rarely include our main trade assets and simply talk about picks.

We have plenty of young players, talented and skilled, in cost effective contracts. We have a plethora of valuable draft picks.

IF we  wanted to, we should be able to outbid the Lakers. It would be costly though.

But #2 + Randle is not enough to the totality of what we can offer.

Randle has proven nothing he was the #7 pick last year, who played in 1 NBA game. #2 this year - probably Stein is UNPROVEN!
That's the extent of what the Lakers have to offer! the Celts on the other hand do not have enough to offer for DMC straight up - HOWEVER- we have assets, picks, expirings to facilitate a 3 way - which may land DMC here. Yes we do have quantity but we that could also work in our favor.
The other thing that we do have going for us is we are in the Eastern Conference which hopefully Vlade recognizes (or maybe not, I forgot he has ties to the Lakers - let me rethink that last thought)

[MBunge]

If we wanted to, we could offer Smart, Young, Sullinger, Olynyk and 2 Brooklyn picks and have Cousins in green tomorrow.

So what you propose is essentially trading the vast majority of the roster and coffer of assets for Cousins.

The question is really, then, would the Kings want to swap rosters and draft assets with the Celtics?

We spend so much time puffing up our plucky young team, our boy wonder coach, and our fearless GM that we have to believe that this moribund franchise in Sacramento would want to switch places with us, right?

Why did Minnesota agree to trade KG for what Boston had to offer?

I'd agree that the short-term appeal of the #2 and Randle trumps anything the Celtics can offer but if Sac is trading Cousins, they're going into another rebuild and if they're going into another rebuild, the young players and picks from Boston would be more appealing than what most of the league could offer.

Mike

[heyvik]

If we wanted to, we could offer Smart, Young, Sullinger, Olynyk and 2 Brooklyn picks and have Cousins in green tomorrow.

So what you propose is essentially trading the vast majority of the roster and coffer of assets for Cousins.

The question is really, then, would the Kings want to swap rosters and draft assets with the Celtics?

We spend so much time puffing up our plucky young team, our boy wonder coach, and our fearless GM that we have to believe that this moribund franchise in Sacramento would want to switch places with us, right?

Why did Minnesota agree to trade KG for what Boston had to offer?

I'd agree that the short-term appeal of the #2 and Randle trumps anything the Celtics can offer but if Sac is trading Cousins, they're going into another rebuild and if they're going into another rebuild, the young players and picks from Boston would be more appealing than what most of the league could offer.

Mike

THIS! Randle and #2 have proven nothing....

[PhoSita]

Why did Minnesota agree to trade KG for what Boston had to offer?

Big Al was regarded as an All-Star caliber big man prospect.

The deal involved some peripheral pieces of debatable value, but that was the heart of it.  The Celts don't have an asset like that right now.

Also, KG was in the last year or two of his prime and had limited time left on his deal. 


Cousins, again, is 24 years old and has multiple years left on his deal.


I think what we've seen is that when teams decide to head back into rebuild mode, they prefer to be really bad and hang their hats on potential rather than trade for proven young role players.  The only team that has done the latter that I can think of was Denver, and they really had no choice.  It was that or let Melo go for nothing (and honestly ... maybe that's what they should have done).