Media Speculation: Gibson for Bradley?

[crimson_stallion]

No  thanks.

Taj Gibson is overrated and was made to look good by a pretty good defensive system. Pretty inept offensive guy aswell.

Averaged a career high 12.6 points and 73.7% from the line in his last healthy season in 35.3 minutes a game playing for a team that was desperately lacking in scoring.

"inept offensive guy"

Fixed

Not sure where you got the other stats from, but Noah has never averaged more than 12.9 points per 36 minutes in his entire career.

63% of all his offense (for his career) comes within 3 feet of the basket, where he's shot 57% - a good number for a guard...not so good for an almost 7-foot center. 

The next highest percentage of his offense (19.1%) has come from 3-10 feet, where he's shot a not too impressive 34% for his career.

Last year he actually shot 51.5% inside 3 feet and 36% from 3-10 feet. 

By comparison Avery Bradley (who is constantly dissed here for his inability to score around the basket) shot 61% from inside 3 feet, and 39% from 3-10 feet.

There are TWO things Noah does well on offense however.   He's an exceptionally good passer for a big man, and he gets to the line very well (career 43% free throw rate).  Outside of those two things, he's a pretty mediocre offensive player.

[Bucketgetter]

What I don't understand is that in the Bleacher Report article the OP cited it comments that they'd have trouble dealing Joakim Noah because he had a poor season. I mean, yeah, he had a rough season, but his stats were arguably better than Gibson in the aspects we'd need (he scored less and had a lower FG%, but rebounded more and had more assists and slightly higher blocks per game). Assuming Chicago wanted to get rid of their big man glut, am I crazy to think we should be aiming for Noah rather than Gibson? I mean, the AB+a first is an overpay for Gibson, but AB and a late first might not be for Noah if we got Monroe. A Monroe/Noah front-court could be intriguing.

Not so sure about Noah...

He doesn't have much of a jump shot, and he's a center.  Getting him AND Monroe means you probably start Monroe at PF, but if you do that you're wasting his potential. 

Starting both guys also means zero court spacing, especially when you consider our team ranked last in the NBA in 3PT% this season (or at least I read that somewhere).

I'd also be concerned with Noah potentially affecting team chemistry - to be honest he seems like a bit of a knob. 
  Starting him alongside Monroe

If we made two big moves this offseason and Noah was one of them, I would actually be pretty psyched. He is the next closest thing to KG and he would totally fit in with our defense-first system. He may not fit well with Monroe, but would be great next to KO/Sully/BB/Jerebko (I know we aren't keeping all of them).

I'm not convinced.

An issue with Noah is that I think his defensive abilities have been largely dependent on his athleticism and mobility compared to other bigs out there.  He's about 6'11 but only has a 7'1" wingspan (about the same as Sully and Crowder) so he's not especially long.  He doesn't have the outright muscle/weight to push people around down low either.  So that makes me wonder, when age and injuries start to rob his athleticism and mobility...where will that leave him defensively?

This is a vast contrast to somebody like KG who was (even after he lost athleticism) was able to utilise his 7'5" wingspan to remain a force on defense - similar deal with Duncan (he also has a 7'4" or so wingspan). 

Once Noah loses his athleticism though, he's really got nothing outside of pure hustle/motor to give him edge.  I wonder if that has something to do with why his defensive numbers dropped off so heavily last season.

Given how limited Noah is offensively, that also leaves me wondering if it's worth the gamble making a run at him.

I mean really, if you try to think of a list of big men who were elite defenders despite pretty average wingspan,  the list is pretty small.  You basically have Joakhim Noah (6'11" with 7'1" wingspan) and Tyson Chandler (7'1" with 7'2" wingspan) off the top of my head.  Both of those guys were excellent athletes when they were young, and depended on that mobility a lot for their defensive prowess (both great pick and roll defenders as a result of mobility). 

I mean if you really sit here and think about the elite defenders out there, young and old...

Kevin Garnett had a 7'5" wingspan
Tim Duncan had a 7'4" wingspan
Pau and Marc Gasol have a 7'4" wingspan
Nerlens Noel has a 7'5" wingspan
Alonzo Mourning had a 7'6" wingspan
Anthony Davis has a 7'4" wingspan
Dikembe Mutombo had a 7'6" wingspan

Even when you look at perimeter players, the guys who are elite defensive players more often than not have a huge wingspan.  Rondo (in his prime), Tony Allen, Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart, Kobe Bryant (in his prime), Dwyane Wade (in his prime), Kawhi Leonard, the list goes on.  Even Paul Pierce, who became known as a good defender in his later years, had great length (6'7" with 7'1" wingspan).   

It's very rare to find guys like Butler who have average wingspan and are excellent defensive players. 

So is it worth gambling on Noah?  Did his numbers only drop because he had injury problems, or is it partly because he's simply lost a step? 

I mean we DO need a rim protector, no doubt about that...it's just a matter of how much we'd have to give up in order to get a guy like Noah, and would it be worth it?

Did you just call Pau Gasol an ELITE defender?

[Bucketgetter]

No  thanks.

Taj Gibson is overrated and was made to look good by a pretty good defensive system. Pretty inept offensive guy aswell.

Averaged a career high 12.6 points and 73.7% from the line in his last healthy season in 35.3 minutes a game playing for a team that was desperately lacking in scoring.

"inept offensive guy"

Fixed

Actually none of those numbers are correct. 10.3 points, 71.7% from the line, and 27.3 minutes a game.

[crimson_stallion]

Did you just call Pau Gasol an ELITE defender?

When Gasol was young, he was a VERY good defensive player.

He's obviously lost a step, but he's still a better defender than he gets credit for.  This year his Defensive RPM was +1.43 (meaning he had a positive impact the Bulls defense when he was on the court) and he averaged 1.9 blocks per game to go with 9 defensive rebounds per game.

It's safe to say that even now, at the age of 34, Gasol is a pretty good (if not elite) defensive player.

He was mostly ignored during his younger years because he played for the Grizzlies, who nobody gave a hoot about. 

Actually none of those numbers are correct. 10.3 points, 71.7% from the line, and 27.3 minutes a game.

I just noticed you were quoting Gibson, not Noah hahahaha 

[bigal534]

https://imgflip.com/i/n858q

[Endless Paradise]

Fixed

Not sure where you got the other stats from, but Noah has never averaged more than 12.9 points per 36 minutes in his entire career.

63% of all his offense (for his career) comes within 3 feet of the basket, where he's shot 57% - a good number for a guard...not so good for an almost 7-foot center. 

The next highest percentage of his offense (19.1%) has come from 3-10 feet, where he's shot a not too impressive 34% for his career.

Last year he actually shot 51.5% inside 3 feet and 36% from 3-10 feet. 

By comparison Avery Bradley (who is constantly dissed here for his inability to score around the basket) shot 61% from inside 3 feet, and 39% from 3-10 feet.

There are TWO things Noah does well on offense however.   He's an exceptionally good passer for a big man, and he gets to the line very well (career 43% free throw rate).  Outside of those two things, he's a pretty mediocre offensive player.

I mean, that's all very useful information, but since when have Taj Gibson and Joakim Noah been the same person?

Actually none of those numbers are correct. 10.3 points, 71.7% from the line, and 27.3 minutes a game.

I specifically said his last healthy season. He didn't only play 62 games last year just because he didn't feel like playing 20 more.

[Geo123]

Gibson is out of all basketball activities for at least 4 month due to his ankle surgery.  Who knows when he will be back on the court ready to go for sure.  I don't see why anyone would trade Bradley for that.  Just say no....

[Donoghus]

No thanks.   Obviously, PF is available for an upgrade but I don't see it as a necessity to fix at the moment and certainly not at the expense of the backcourt depth. 

Plus, I'm concerned that Gibson's body is starting to break down a bit.

[apc]

DA has a man crush on Bradley, I think it will take more for him to trade Bradley.

[Celts Fan 508]

Does this make more sense now with the Celts drafting 2 guards in the first round this year?

I think Bradley for Gibson and Doug McBuckets would work out well.

[SHAQATTACK]

DA has a man crush on Bradley, I think it will take more for him to trade Bradley.

Not against the trade......but I agree

The Celtics have practically wet nursed and raised AB from a child in their system.

Not sure. DA is thrilled with letting his children go.

I also see no rush ,  there maybe BETTER situation present itself .

[pearljammer10]

I wouldnt love it but I'd do it in a heart beat.... I had trouble getting passed the report where it says Chicago might be interested in Bradley because they are looking to be more offense based...Duhh,.,.,., say what now?

Gibson would be a nice fit here if we were playing small ball with him at the 5. I don't really like him as a four.

[LarBrd33]

Taj doesn't move the needle

[Boris Badenov]

Taj doesn't move the needle

He'll fit right in.

[TheTruthFot18]

I wouldnt love it but I'd do it in a heart beat.... I had trouble getting passed the report where it says Chicago might be interested in Bradley because they are looking to be more offense based...Duhh,.,.,., say what now?

Gibson would be a nice fit here if we were playing small ball with him at the 5. I don't really like him as a four.

I think Gibson is more of a defender than Bradley while Bradley can contribute more offense. I've always liked Gibson but we have an undersized PF who can defend AND block now. Anyone else think Mickey might be the most exciting pick this year?

Also, if we do this we need to send out more guys like a 3 for 1 swap. This roster is too deep even if after a potential Bradley/Gibson swap.