Maybe Love will leave (or maybe he stays)

[Endless Paradise]

The best use of the Cavs' money is to bring back Kevin Love (who is a perfect floor stretcher who opens up driving lanes for Lebron), and then use the Haywood contract to add to the supporting cast.

Assuming that ownership breaks the bank (and they will):

Mozgov / Varejao
Love / Thompson
Lebron / $10 million super-sub
Shumpert / Smith
Irving / Delladoeva

That's a juggernaut.

Bingo. People look at this playoff run and think "the Cavs play better without Love" when in reality, they're not playing "better" - they're just limited to playing in a defensively-minded, grind-it-out style that's shockingly working against an relatively-inexperienced opponent. With Love and Irving, they have the ability to play both as an overwhelming offensive powerhouse or as a more methodical, super slow-tempo defensive vice grip. They don't have that luxury right now: it's slow and grinding or bust. It's working, but it's not in the least bit ideal and it's certainly not sustainable over the course of an entire season.

[Moranis]

I guess the question is: is there a better option for LBJ than bringing back Love?

If Love leaves, the Cavs will still be over the cap, so they're not really going to have any significant money to sign a replacement.  There could potentially be a sign-and-trade, but there aren't a lot of great fits.

They do have Brendan Haywood's non-guaranteed $10.5 mil contract to use to trade for someone.  Maybe try to get someone like Ryan Anderson as a bench scoring big.

Right, but they've got that regardless.

The question posed by the thread is whether the Cavs would be better off letting Love leave to put that money to "better use". 

The best use of the Cavs' money is to bring back Kevin Love (who is a perfect floor stretcher who opens up driving lanes for Lebron), and then use the Haywood contract to add to the supporting cast.

Assuming that ownership breaks the bank (and they will):

Mozgov / Varejao
Love / Thompson
Lebron / $10 million super-sub
Shumpert / Smith
Irving / Delladoeva

That's a juggernaut.

Yep.  That team is the clear favorite to win the next 4 or 5 titles if they stay relatively healthy come playoff time (they don't even need to be healthy during the season as long as they make the playoffs and are mostly healthy for the playoffs). 

Of course that is a ton of money.  I mean Thompson and Varejao alone are going to be 25 million coming off the bench.  Kyrie, Lebron, and Kevin will be over 80 million under the new salary cap and the starting 5 is probably around 100 million after Mozgov and Shumpert get new contracts this summer.  You are looking at a 150 million + payroll, which is a ton of money, but if you are winning title after title and Dan Gilbert, I don't think you care.

Assuming Love does opt in, I would expect the Cavs to make a play for someone like Demarre Carroll or Aaron Afflalo in a sign and trade using Haywood.  They would be a great fit next to James and as his primary back up.  They could also go the cheaper route and look at a guy like Hollis Thompson who is a pretty deadly 3 point shooter and could be had for the MLE or less. 

[LGC88]

The best use of the Cavs' money is to bring back Kevin Love (who is a perfect floor stretcher who opens up driving lanes for Lebron), and then use the Haywood contract to add to the supporting cast.

Assuming that ownership breaks the bank (and they will):

Mozgov / Varejao
Love / Thompson
Lebron / $10 million super-sub
Shumpert / Smith
Irving / Delladoeva

That's a juggernaut.

Bingo. People look at this playoff run and think "the Cavs play better without Love" when in reality, they're not playing "better" - they're just limited to playing in a defensively-minded, grind-it-out style that's shockingly working against an relatively-inexperienced opponent. With Love and Irving, they have the ability to play both as an overwhelming offensive powerhouse or as a more methodical, super slow-tempo defensive vice grip. They don't have that luxury right now: it's slow and grinding or bust. It's working, but it's not in the least bit ideal and it's certainly not sustainable over the course of an entire season.

TP.
Spot on analysis.

[Roy H.]

I guess the question is: is there a better option for LBJ than bringing back Love?

If Love leaves, the Cavs will still be over the cap, so they're not really going to have any significant money to sign a replacement.  There could potentially be a sign-and-trade, but there aren't a lot of great fits.

They do have Brendan Haywood's non-guaranteed $10.5 mil contract to use to trade for someone.  Maybe try to get someone like Ryan Anderson as a bench scoring big.

Right, but they've got that regardless.

The question posed by the thread is whether the Cavs would be better off letting Love leave to put that money to "better use". 

The best use of the Cavs' money is to bring back Kevin Love (who is a perfect floor stretcher who opens up driving lanes for Lebron), and then use the Haywood contract to add to the supporting cast.

Assuming that ownership breaks the bank (and they will):

Mozgov / Varejao
Love / Thompson
Lebron / $10 million super-sub
Shumpert / Smith
Irving / Delladoeva

That's a juggernaut.

Can they rationalize paying Love the max and Thompson the max to be his back up? I think they could keep both but they would have to start THompson at the 5 and bring Mozgov off the bench.

Dan Gilbert's net worth increased by $1 billion last year.  While many owners cry poverty, Gilbert has always invested in his team, and I don't think he minds having a $150+ million pay roll (after taxes) so long as he's got Lebron and is contending for championships.

[Endless Paradise]

David Lee is the highest-paid Warrior this year and he's basically been out of the rotation. The money someone earns in their deal isn't necessarily reflective of the role they play on the team.

Basically, the Cavs can justify paying Thompson to be a back-up if they so choose by saying, "we have the money and we're going to pay Thompson to be our back-up." There's no rules against paying big money to a non-starter.

[JBcat]

I guess the question is: is there a better option for LBJ than bringing back Love?

If Love leaves, the Cavs will still be over the cap, so they're not really going to have any significant money to sign a replacement.  There could potentially be a sign-and-trade, but there aren't a lot of great fits.

They do have Brendan Haywood's non-guaranteed $10.5 mil contract to use to trade for someone.  Maybe try to get someone like Ryan Anderson as a bench scoring big.

Right, but they've got that regardless.

The question posed by the thread is whether the Cavs would be better off letting Love leave to put that money to "better use". 

The best use of the Cavs' money is to bring back Kevin Love (who is a perfect floor stretcher who opens up driving lanes for Lebron), and then use the Haywood contract to add to the supporting cast.

Assuming that ownership breaks the bank (and they will):

Mozgov / Varejao
Love / Thompson
Lebron / $10 million super-sub
Shumpert / Smith
Irving / Delladoeva

That's a juggernaut.

This.

As long as Gilbert doesn't mind paying the luxury tax consequences for the next few years, and if for any reason it's not working well all of these guys are tradable not like the mess the Nets are in.

[Celtics4ever]

Boy, the cavs are a defensive team without Love and Irving.   They have kept the scores down, defended and ground out games, one cannot help to think if they want him back.

[jambr380]

The last bunch of posts make it sound like it will be the Cavs choice of whether or not they will keep Love - if Love wants to come back, of course the Cavs will sign him, regardless of money.

I just don't think Love will want to come back; however, if Love wants to leave on a good note, he can still get the Cavs a first round pick and a humongous TPE. As discussed, this does not benefit Love since [new CBA rules state] he cannot get as much in a s&t as he would simply re-signing with the Cavs, but at least he would be able to go to the destination of his choosing while not being the guy who screwed over the Cavs (even though Wiggins is likely better than anybody they will get with their first).

[D.o.s.]

I guess the question is: is there a better option for LBJ than bringing back Love?

If Love leaves, the Cavs will still be over the cap, so they're not really going to have any significant money to sign a replacement.  There could potentially be a sign-and-trade, but there aren't a lot of great fits.

They do have Brendan Haywood's non-guaranteed $10.5 mil contract to use to trade for someone.  Maybe try to get someone like Ryan Anderson as a bench scoring big.

Right, but they've got that regardless.

The question posed by the thread is whether the Cavs would be better off letting Love leave to put that money to "better use". 

The best use of the Cavs' money is to bring back Kevin Love (who is a perfect floor stretcher who opens up driving lanes for Lebron), and then use the Haywood contract to add to the supporting cast.

Assuming that ownership breaks the bank (and they will):

Mozgov / Varejao
Love / Thompson
Lebron / $10 million super-sub
Shumpert / Smith
Irving / Delladoeva

That's a juggernaut.

Can they rationalize paying Love the max and Thompson the max to be his back up? I think they could keep both but they would have to start THompson at the 5 and bring Mozgov off the bench.

Dan Gilbert's net worth increased by $1 billion last year.  While many owners cry poverty, Gilbert has always invested in his team, and I don't think he minds having a $150+ million pay roll (after taxes) so long as he's got Lebron and is contending for championships.

Gilbert was also one of the hardline opponents of reaching a compromise with the players during the 2011 lockout, and is basically a terrible person to anyone and everyone.

[Vermont Green]

I agree with others that suggest Cle would be more than happy to pay both Thompson and Love for the next 3-4 seasons.  They should have both Mozgov and Verejao to add to Love and Thompson to share 96 minutes a game.  With injuries and variable match-ups, I think playing time for these guys would be a problem Cle would love to have.

[celticsclay]

Curious for others thoughts on this. Perhaps not a huge issue for one year, but do both Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson want to split minutes with each other for the next 4-5 years and pretty much the rest of Kevin Love's prime? Kevin Love played 34 minutes a game this year, but Tristan played only 26 in the regular season (now 36 in the post-season). I don't think Kevin Love wants to play 28-30 minutes at this stage of his career, nor would Thompson. You can't really play either one of them more than a few spot minutes at Center against smaller teams. So how does that work?

[Endless Paradise]

Why am I supposed to think that'll be a problem if the Warriors' starters - around the same ages of Love and Thompson - averaged 28-32 minutes a game and the Spurs' starters have averaged similar minutes for several years? I legitimately don't think they'll care as long as they win (and they will).

[celticsclay]

Why am I supposed to think that'll be a problem if the Warriors' starters - around the same ages of Love and Thompson - averaged 28-32 minutes a game and the Spurs' starters have averaged similar minutes for several years? I legitimately don't think they'll care as long as they win (and they will).

The warriors minutes per game this year are probably a bit misleading. They had an extremely large number of games where they were up 15 or more entering the 4th quarter where Curry and the other starters did not play because the game was out of hand. In the previous two seasons Curry's minute were 36.5 and 38. The same pattern is seen with Klay Thompson's minutes. I don't expect them to play 32 minutes per game over the next few seasons. While teams are wising up on limiting players minutes, I think there is a line. If Kevin Love were to play 28 minutes per game it would significantly impact his chances of things like making the all-star team, putting up numbers for the hall of fame, becoming one of the top 20 all time rebounders. While team success is great, I don't think there are many examples of players doing that for an extended period of times in their mid 20's.

The spurs are not a very good argument against this because their stars have had their minutes limited because they were older and had already accomplished a ton in their careers.  When Duncan was 26 he was actually playing 36 minutes a game.

[Moranis]

Curious for others thoughts on this. Perhaps not a huge issue for one year, but do both Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson want to split minutes with each other for the next 4-5 years and pretty much the rest of Kevin Love's prime? Kevin Love played 34 minutes a game this year, but Tristan played only 26 in the regular season (now 36 in the post-season). I don't think Kevin Love wants to play 28-30 minutes at this stage of his career, nor would Thompson. You can't really play either one of them more than a few spot minutes at Center against smaller teams. So how does that work?

Against most teams, especially against back-up centers, Thompson and Love will be fine playing together.  I suspect the rotation would be something like this

C - Mozgov 28, Thompson 14, Varejao 6
PF - Love 32, Thompson 16

Slight variations here and there for the hot hand, match-ups, etc.  Love keeps getting hurt so limiting his minutes a bit in the regular season would be helpful for his health.  Come playoffs, Varejao gets squeezed out of the rotation with most of those minutes going to Love (which you could do in the regular season anyway).

[celticsclay]

Curious for others thoughts on this. Perhaps not a huge issue for one year, but do both Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson want to split minutes with each other for the next 4-5 years and pretty much the rest of Kevin Love's prime? Kevin Love played 34 minutes a game this year, but Tristan played only 26 in the regular season (now 36 in the post-season). I don't think Kevin Love wants to play 28-30 minutes at this stage of his career, nor would Thompson. You can't really play either one of them more than a few spot minutes at Center against smaller teams. So how does that work?

Against most teams, especially against back-up centers, Thompson and Love will be fine playing together.  I suspect the rotation would be something like this

C - Mozgov 28, Thompson 14, Varejao 6
PF - Love 32, Thompson 16

Slight variations here and there for the hot hand, match-ups, etc.  Love keeps getting hurt so limiting his minutes a bit in the regular season would be helpful for his health.  Come playoffs, Varejao gets squeezed out of the rotation with most of those minutes going to Love (which you could do in the regular season anyway).

Even under this proposal Thompson is getting 30 minutes a game. That is really low for a young star making max money in his prime whom I am sure would prefer to play the 36 minutes he is getting with Love out. If you look around at other mpg for young stars making max money I don't see any of them making this kind of sacrifice at this stage of their careers.