Respect to Lebron

[fairweatherfan]

Have to admit it, I'm rooting for LeBron in this series. Winning it all without either Love, Kyrie, or Varejao would be one of the greatest accomplishments in NBA history.

This.

My dislike for LeBron waned somewhere in the middle of his run in Miami.  I think some of it was seeing Wade's dirty play and realizing that LeBron doesn't typically resort to stuff like that.  Behind his whining and arrogance, LeBron had never really done anything worthy of hate.  Another part of it was the admission that Boston was on its way down, a fact punctuated by the trade of Pierce and KG.  No point in wasting negative emotion on a rivalry that no longer really exists.

Mostly agree, though I'm still rooting for the Warriors.  But most of what I disliked about younger LeBron was A. Frequent prancing and preening, in conjunction with B. Hadn't won any titles yet.  Also being really really good and in Boston's way didn't help.

But he cut way down on that stuff once he got to Miami.  Very little dancing on the sidelines in a regular season game type antics.  I wanted the league to humble LeBron a bit before he finally started collecting rings, and I think that mostly happened.  Now I don't root for the guy, but I do try and appreciate what an incredible player he is.  If we live another 50 years we'll only see a handful of guys at that level again.

The hate for LeBron is petty.  People find the weakest stuff to latch onto.  "He preens!"... Give me a break.  We look at players these days with an unfair microscope.  It's such a cynical world and people can no longer appreciate greatness without trying to tear it down.   LeBron is amazing.  Nobody is perfect.   "But he preens though!!"... Who cares.

MIchael Jordan might have been the biggest **** in league history.  We have plenty of stories backing this up at this point.   Michael Jordan never won without another legendary player alongside him (Bulls won 55 games without him... Cavs/Heat fail to make the playoffs without LeBron).   LeBron preens... Jordan had a gambling addiction.   LeBron takes 2 weeks off after leading his team to 4 non-stop brutal years of leading his team to the finals.  You know what Michael Jordan was doing at the same point of his career?... taking a year and a half off.

CUT FOR SPACE

Did you just read the first two sentences and immediately stop to breathlessly hammer out this rant?  Because as I said I've come around on LeBron, and even when I found him insufferable I still acknowledged he was an all-time great.  But as for "who cares", I do (or did), and so did lots of other people.  Because it was irritating to me.  Again, doing it against teams I liked had plenty to do with it, but so what?  Larry Bird is also my favorite player of all time, but I probably would've found him obnoxious if everything was the same except he'd happened to play his games in a yellow shirt instead of a green one.  Put Jordan in a green shirt instead of a red one and I spend my teens adoring him instead of hoping for someone to take him down a notch. It's not rational, but what about this is?  Welcome to fandom.

[LGC88]

The beauty of sports is that you can root for (and against) whomever you want for whatever reason and they're all of equal validity. It's all petty and stupid and pointless if you bring it down to brass tacks: you're cheering for (or against) someone you don't know based on something as vapid as (mostly) geographic allegiance while giving money to people who ultimately don't give a crap about you and don't contribute to society in a meaningful way.

In fact, you could use that season ticket/league pass/memorabilia money in many other ways that would be "better" and less "petty" than by spending any amount of money, time, effort, or energy on sports, which are one of the least essential aspects of human life. You can make the exact same argument against the arts.

To my mind, that misses the whole point of the adventure. Logic ain't got no room at this table (as anyone who has ever argued with anyone about sports has ever realized) before fandom.

TL; DR: "LeBron preens so I don't like him" is just as valid an expression of sports fandom as a 187-page annotated thesis on whether or not he's the best player ever.

TP, I like this post.
Now, may I start my topic "My respect to D.o.s., our best philosopher in CB!" ?

[Donoghus]

Have to admit it, I'm rooting for LeBron in this series. Winning it all without either Love, Kyrie, or Varejao would be one of the greatest accomplishments in NBA history.

This.

My dislike for LeBron waned somewhere in the middle of his run in Miami.  I think some of it was seeing Wade's dirty play and realizing that LeBron doesn't typically resort to stuff like that.  Behind his whining and arrogance, LeBron had never really done anything worthy of hate.  Another part of it was the admission that Boston was on its way down, a fact punctuated by the trade of Pierce and KG.  No point in wasting negative emotion on a rivalry that no longer really exists.

Mostly agree, though I'm still rooting for the Warriors.  But most of what I disliked about younger LeBron was A. Frequent prancing and preening, in conjunction with B. Hadn't won any titles yet.  Also being really really good and in Boston's way didn't help.

But he cut way down on that stuff once he got to Miami.  Very little dancing on the sidelines in a regular season game type antics.  I wanted the league to humble LeBron a bit before he finally started collecting rings, and I think that mostly happened.  Now I don't root for the guy, but I do try and appreciate what an incredible player he is.  If we live another 50 years we'll only see a handful of guys at that level again.

The hate for LeBron is petty.  People find the weakest stuff to latch onto.  "He preens!"... Give me a break.  We look at players these days with an unfair microscope.  It's such a cynical world and people can no longer appreciate greatness without trying to tear it down.   LeBron is amazing.  Nobody is perfect.   "But he preens though!!"... Who cares.

MIchael Jordan might have been the biggest **** in league history.  We have plenty of stories backing this up at this point.   Michael Jordan never won without another legendary player alongside him (Bulls won 55 games without him... Cavs/Heat fail to make the playoffs without LeBron).   LeBron preens... Jordan had a gambling addiction.   LeBron takes 2 weeks off after leading his team to 4 non-stop brutal years of leading his team to the finals.  You know what Michael Jordan was doing at the same point of his career?... taking a year and a half off.

My favorite player ever is Larry Bird.  Larry Bird was one of the biggest punks in League history.  You want to complain about LeBron's ego?  Bird would get bored in games and exclusively shoot left handed.  Bird was one of the biggest trash talkers in league history.  You wanna complain about LeBron taking a 2 week break?   Larry Bird apparently wrecked his finger in a BAR FIGHT that impacted his playoff performance.  Can you even fathom a world in which LeBron James wrecked his right index finger in a bar fight?  Can you imagine what twitter armies would do to him?  The non-stop barrage of articles, blog posts, and forum articles about his dedication to the game? 

But Bird's incident happened pre-internet... so we really didn't even hear about it until long after he retired.  There weren't instagram photos and tweets from bar patrons who saw it happen.  TMZ wasn't outside to document the whole thing.

On the night of May 16, 1985, in the middle of the Eastern Conference finals between the Celtics and Sixers, Bird was involved in a scuffle that started at a now-defunct bar called Chelsea?s and spilled out to the corner of State Street and Merchant?s Row. After the altercation, Mike Harlow, a bartender/former Colgate football player, claimed he was sucker-punched by Bird. Nick Harris, a man who was with Bird and Quinn Buckner on the night of the incident, was treated at Massachusetts General Hospital?s emergency room that night.

There was a lawsuit and a settlement. The Celtics told Bird to stay away from Harris. None of the parties ever talked about it.

Bird's right index finger was badly swollen in the days after the fight. He claimed he injured it May 18 in a game at Philadelphia, two days after the fight. He shot 46 percent in the ?85 playoffs. In his other two MVP seasons, when the Celtics won the championship, he shot 52 percent each year.

Bird didn?t speak to me for seven months after I wrote the Chelsea?s story in 1985. Twenty years later, when I teased him about it, he said, ?I hit that guy [Harlow] with my left hand!??

Can you imagine if such a story were to happen to LeBron in 2015?  I mean, can you imagine even seeing a story about LeBron hanging out in a bar during the ECF?  He did a brief post-game interview yesterday with D-Wade (who was one of the broadcasters last night) and fans freaked out about him spending so much time doing media when he should have been resting up for the next game.

I mean... with the way people are so loose at describing LeBron's character flaws (omg, he threw a towel on the floor... LeBron has no respect for ball boys!)  can you imagine the kind of negativity publicity Larry Bird would have gotten had the story about him "abandoning his daughter" came out with him playing basketball during the internet culture?  You think they would have been fair about it and listened to Bird's side of the story?... or would we have had a billion blog posts about how Larry Bird was the worst person in the NBA?

LeBron is cool in my book.  I'm enjoying watching him.  I'm rooting for him.

I think you are twisting and turning things to help Lebron in the Lebron vs Jordan comparison.

That said, you have an interesting point about Jordan being a jerk.  That's true.  Lebron is actually a pretty good guy.  So why was/is Jordan so much more popular?  Basketball aside, I think it's a personality thing.  Jordan was a man's man who gambled, womanized, was a terrible father, and didn't care what people thought.  Lebron is nice to people, does charity, is a family guy, but seems to be concerned about what people think of him.  I don't know.  I can't quite get my head around it.  It's an interesting subject.

Lebron has a bit of that A-Rod complex of trying to please everyone/actually seems to care what people think of him. 

Besides "The Decision" (the ultimate "Look at Me" moment), I think part of the hate stems from the anointing of Lebron as the "next big thing" at such a young age and the "King" label that he put out there.   Guy was on the cover of SI as a high school junior then had some of his high school games nationally televised.  Created this huge undercurrent for him before he played a single minute at the NBA level.   Combine that with dealing with the unfortunate timing of coming off the heels of the Jordan era (a guy deified for good reason or not) and the inevitable backlash that created with people who see Jordan as the GOAT.   There's also the matter of the perception of favoritism in regards to the way he's refereed but let's not forget that Jordan was treated very much the same way.

Then, as I mentioned earlier, the spotlight out there is just much greater in 2015 than it was 1995.  With the social media explosion, voices are just much louder.  Especially from the detractors.  People like trashing the best (see certain defending SB champion).

I think some of the criticism of Lebron is valid but a whole lot of the stuff is super over the top & petty.   I think 20 years down the road, history will favor the guy more than it does right now.

[D.o.s.]

The beauty of sports is that you can root for (and against) whomever you want for whatever reason and they're all of equal validity. It's all petty and stupid and pointless if you bring it down to brass tacks: you're cheering for (or against) someone you don't know based on something as vapid as (mostly) geographic allegiance while giving money to people who ultimately don't give a crap about you and don't contribute to society in a meaningful way.

In fact, you could use that season ticket/league pass/memorabilia money in many other ways that would be "better" and less "petty" than by spending any amount of money, time, effort, or energy on sports, which are one of the least essential aspects of human life. You can make the exact same argument against the arts.

To my mind, that misses the whole point of the adventure. Logic ain't got no room at this table (as anyone who has ever argued with anyone about sports has ever realized) before fandom.

TL; DR: "LeBron preens so I don't like him" is just as valid an expression of sports fandom as a 187-page annotated thesis on whether or not he's the best player ever.

TP, I like this post.
Now, may I start my topic "My respect to D.o.s., our best philosopher in CB!" ?

Thanks, although I think there are loads of other CB'ers who are very astute thinkers about very many things.

[LarBrd33]

Jordan is more popular, because in the mid 90s we didn't have internet forums overanalyzing his advanced stats and a cynical mob tearing apart every interview and every aspect of his personal life.   There was jealousy when Jordan was around as well, but we didn't have global hubs to seethe together.   You'll never see another Jordan (in terms of popularity) for the same reason you'll never see a globally beloved band or musician like the Beatles or Michael Jackson.   Different era.  Too many options for one thing to hold our focus.   We saw the "Be Like Mike" commercials.   We all digested the universal praise heaped on him.  We were on board with movies like Space Jam...  and we all bought into the idea that he was a superhuman force of nature.  We didn't have forums for ceaselessly debating the "weak competition" Jordan was facing off against (Post Bird/Magic), how the league was letting him get away with murder nightly, or how the league was literally changing rules to match Jordan's skillset (like when they moved in the 3 point line for him).   We didn't have endless internet debates about Scottie Pippen's impact in relation to Jordan and how Pippen's two-way game was the true leader of the team (55 wins without Jordan) ala debates claiming D-Wade was the best player on the Heat.  It definitely helped that he was the greatest basketball player of all time and probably the greatest athlete of our generation.  It didn't hurt that some of us were children at the time... I remember watching the Michael Jordan cartoon and never once did I think, "Dude needs to focus on basketball instead of pimping his brand everywhere". 

If LeBron played in the 90s era, he'd be just as beloved.   

If LeBron played in the 80s era (where fictional athletes like Hulk Hogan had legions of followers and Bird/Magic was an unchecked spectacle that carried the league), he'd be glorified as well.

But LeBron plays in 2015... and every step he makes gets overly scrutinized.   When you cut through the bs, you start to realize he's one of the greatest athletes ever playing at peak level.  He's accomplishing extraordinary things.  And for kids growing up today, LeBron might be the closest they will ever have to Ali/Tyson/Jordan.   

[Ilikesports17]

Look I dont get rooting for Lebron because he is a beast.

I get the respect. I cant compare him to Michael or Bird because I never saw them play. Lebrons the best Ive ever seen but I dont get the "you cant help but root for him".

No I can.  I hate the guy. Do people outside New England root for Tom Brady?

Did you guys root for the Yankees?  What about Richard Sherman and the Seahawks.

Do you root for Peyton Manning?

how many people do you think were pulling for the pats when we played NYG to go undefeated?

How about Barcelona and Messi and Ronaldo. (for them at least there is some rivalry there)

Look if you are some bandwagon fan who just follows the NBA come the finals than fine. when the US isnt playing I only watch soccer to watch superstars like Christiano and Messi. However I expect most of the people here to be invested basketaball fans. When i watch college BBall I dont root for Kentucky.

If you like what Lebron is about than fine root for him, but I think hes a jerk, and when a jerk who is on a team which I dont like with other players I dont like I dont just go ahead and hop on the bandwagon because hes so good at basketball.

[D.o.s.]

I rooted for the Seahawks in the last two Super Bowls. I like their color scheme and I like Marshawn Lynch.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I rooted for the Seahawks in the last two Super Bowls. I like their color scheme and I like Marshawn Lynch.

Nice to see that I'm not the only person who roots for teams based on color schemes. That's how I came to be an Oakland A's fan (while still being first and foremost a Red Sox fan). Sometimes I even cheer against teams because I dislike their unis, such as this year's Hawks (please go back to the Wilkins-era unis!).

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

Jordan is more popular, because in the mid 90s we didn't have internet forums overanalyzing his advanced stats and a cynical mob tearing apart every interview and every aspect of his personal life.   There was jealousy when Jordan was around as well, but we didn't have global hubs to seethe together.   You'll never see another Jordan (in terms of popularity) for the same reason you'll never see a globally beloved band or musician like the Beatles or Michael Jackson.   Different era.  Too many options for one thing to hold our focus.   We saw the "Be Like Mike" commercials.   We all digested the universal praise heaped on him.  We were on board with movies like Space Jam...  and we all bought into the idea that he was a superhuman force of nature.  We didn't have forums for ceaselessly debating the "weak competition" Jordan was facing off against (Post Bird/Magic), how the league was letting him get away with murder nightly, or how the league was literally changing rules to match Jordan's skillset (like when they moved in the 3 point line for him).   We didn't have endless internet debates about Scottie Pippen's impact in relation to Jordan and how Pippen's two-way game was the true leader of the team (55 wins without Jordan) ala debates claiming D-Wade was the best player on the Heat.  It definitely helped that he was the greatest basketball player of all time and probably the greatest athlete of our generation.  It didn't hurt that some of us were children at the time... I remember watching the Michael Jordan cartoon and never once did I think, "Dude needs to focus on basketball instead of pimping his brand everywhere". 

If LeBron played in the 90s era, he'd be just as beloved.   

If LeBron played in the 80s era (where fictional athletes like Hulk Hogan had legions of followers and Bird/Magic was an unchecked spectacle that carried the league), he'd be glorified as well.

But LeBron plays in 2015... and every step he makes gets overly scrutinized.   When you cut through the bs, you start to realize he's one of the greatest athletes ever playing at peak level.  He's accomplishing extraordinary things.  And for kids growing up today, LeBron might be the closest they will ever have to Ali/Tyson/Jordan.

How do you come to the conclusion that "all" people feel the same way you do about Jordan? I couldn't stand him and I know many others who don't like him either! The only thing you got right is that the people who don't/didn't like him didn't have a way to voice it. I'm sure people would have gladly said what they thought if there was a forum for it.

Just bc I can admit they are beast players doesn't mean I have to like them! Respect for their play doesn't change my mind about them. Jordan and LBJ are/were great but I can't stand them! Majority of my dislike is b/c they were/are the "enemy" and some of it is the way the act, I can't stand LBJ's fakeness and whiny attitude and Jordan is a ...k!


Why is that a lot of people I see talking about how great LBJ is are some of the same people who can't stand Kobe? Say what you want about that jerk, he is also one of the greats of history. Where are the threads singing his praises?

[SHAQATTACK]

It really doesn't matter HOW many  great teams are in the West .....most have no chance of beating Bron and Irving in a serious series .....for the TITLE.

Bron ...doesn't play full out every game anymore ,  only in the playoffs does he go super hero superman on everybody.

It will be same deal  for at least three more years .

Any team will have to go though James to get yo the title.

Will Duncan come back to help K.Leonard beat James ......I think he will.

A.Davis and Winslow would be fun to watch play the King Diva.





THE beast / best player is in the East .....LeBron

So all the hype is foolish ....it doesn't natter ...........the Rockets plus a really good point guard like Wall have the means to beat LeDiva .


Eventually , Father Time will catch Bron ...like it did Kobe.

Unless there are major player moves .....I can't forsee .....right now LEBRON and Irving will still be the team yo knock out of a series l

They may not have the most wins , cause Bron don't care ....he just wants to takeover the playoffs.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

It really doesn't matter HOW many  great teams are in the West .....most have no chance of beating Bron and Irving in a serious series .....for the TITLE.

Bron ...doesn't play full out every game anymore ,  only in the playoffs does he go super hero superman on everybody.

It will be same deal  for at least three more years .

Any team will have to go though James to get yo the title.

Will Duncan come back to help K.Leonard beat James ......I think he will.

A.Davis and Winslow would be fun to watch play the King Diva.





THE beast / best player is in the East .....LeBron

So all the hype is foolish ....it doesn't natter ...........the Rockets plus a really good point guard like Wall have the means to beat LeDiva .


Eventually , Father Time will catch Bron ...like it did Kobe.

Unless there are major player moves .....I can't forsee .....right now LEBRON and Irving will still be the team yo knock out of a series l

They may not have the most wins , cause Bron don't care ....he just wants to takeover the playoffs.

Some of this I agree with, LBJ will be the one to beat until he's not healthy enough/old. Hopefully the Cs will become good enough to beat him and make him hate us all over again!

[Rosco917]

Labron is looking as dominant as a player I've ever seen. He looks like he's in a different league altogether.
He's playing point forward, scorer, rebounder, and defending like a crazy man on the other end!


If the Warriors loose this series, they should hang their heads in shame. Their forwards are playing terrible basketball, their not even involved with the offensive flow of the game. Please make LBJ have to defend.

I'm beginning to wonder about the quality of the present NBA in general. 

[sahara]

If you ignore the fg% (as history always does) Lebron`s stats are insane. INSANE!

He was a pampered brat groomed to be the posterboy in this league and he embraced it. He embraced it too much and became an Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.. We all would have done the same, admit it or not.

These finals are the first time I´m seeing him playing "the right way", he doesn´t bulldoze his way to basket like a footballer, he doesn´t travel every time he touches the ball, he actually plays basketball! He still whines about the calls though (but not as much he used to).

Most importantly, I think he finally grew up and started being serious.

All this is too late ofc, I hope he loses

[greece66]

I watched games 2 and 3.

That was a truly great performance by LBJ.

This was like street basketball: the best player picks the worst teammates to make the game more interesting.

The difference between LBJ and the rest was like the difference between Under-16 and Under-14 players. A different league.

[fairweatherfan]

Jordan is more popular, because in the mid 90s we didn't have internet forums overanalyzing his advanced stats and a cynical mob tearing apart every interview and every aspect of his personal life.   There was jealousy when Jordan was around as well, but we didn't have global hubs to seethe together.   You'll never see another Jordan (in terms of popularity) for the same reason you'll never see a globally beloved band or musician like the Beatles or Michael Jackson.   Different era.  Too many options for one thing to hold our focus.   We saw the "Be Like Mike" commercials.   We all digested the universal praise heaped on him.  We were on board with movies like Space Jam...  and we all bought into the idea that he was a superhuman force of nature.  We didn't have forums for ceaselessly debating the "weak competition" Jordan was facing off against (Post Bird/Magic), how the league was letting him get away with murder nightly, or how the league was literally changing rules to match Jordan's skillset (like when they moved in the 3 point line for him).   We didn't have endless internet debates about Scottie Pippen's impact in relation to Jordan and how Pippen's two-way game was the true leader of the team (55 wins without Jordan) ala debates claiming D-Wade was the best player on the Heat.  It definitely helped that he was the greatest basketball player of all time and probably the greatest athlete of our generation.  It didn't hurt that some of us were children at the time... I remember watching the Michael Jordan cartoon and never once did I think, "Dude needs to focus on basketball instead of pimping his brand everywhere". 

If LeBron played in the 90s era, he'd be just as beloved.   

If LeBron played in the 80s era (where fictional athletes like Hulk Hogan had legions of followers and Bird/Magic was an unchecked spectacle that carried the league), he'd be glorified as well.

But LeBron plays in 2015... and every step he makes gets overly scrutinized.   When you cut through the bs, you start to realize he's one of the greatest athletes ever playing at peak level.  He's accomplishing extraordinary things.  And for kids growing up today, LeBron might be the closest they will ever have to Ali/Tyson/Jordan.

How do you come to the conclusion that "all" people feel the same way you do about Jordan? I couldn't stand him and I know many others who don't like him either! The only thing you got right is that the people who don't/didn't like him didn't have a way to voice it. I'm sure people would have gladly said what they thought if there was a forum for it.

Just bc I can admit they are beast players doesn't mean I have to like them! Respect for their play doesn't change my mind about them. Jordan and LBJ are/were great but I can't stand them! Majority of my dislike is b/c they were/are the "enemy" and some of it is the way the act, I can't stand LBJ's fakeness and whiny attitude and Jordan is a ...k!

Yeah, ironically one of the reasons I've tried to appreciate how great LeBron is, despite not caring much for him as a player, is because I despised Jordan when he played, and regretted it later.  Lots and lots of people did not like Jordan and didn't want him to win, and Celtics fans were definitely part of that, especially early on.  And Jordan caught lots of "can't win the big one" flak right up until he did, too. 

Maybe the only real difference is, like you say, less opportunity for minor knocks on Jordan to blow up in the media, and people who don't like him can't communicate as freely about it.  It's fair to say Jordan was probably more popular when he played than LeBron is, but the idea that he was universally loved is some revisionist history.