Cliff Alexander,Jordan Mickey, or Dakari Johnson?

[suitednzooted]

Hello fellow Celtics enthusiasts! Like most of you, I bleed green and have been thinking about this draft since all star break. Unfortunately we went against my wishes and won enough games after the break to get a playoff spot. Instead of getting a top 5 pick were now relegated to #16,#28, and #33 smh...so after doing a few mock drafts and assuming that well take the best available player at #16 (most likely a wing player like Booker,Oubre or Justin Anderson) I feel like well be looking for a rim protector at #28 or #33. Im hoping we can draft 2 of those 3 and with the #33 grab a big. Im thinking Cliff Alexander, Jordan Mickey and Dakari Johnson will be available at that spot. What do you guys think about them? Ive gone back and forth because i love dakari johnsons size(7-0 240lbs) and offensive post play, love Cliff Alexanders toughness and defensive intensity, but also love Jordan mickeys defensive potential. Cliff and Jordan are a little undersized at PF (6' but Jordan averaged 6 blocks in 2 games at the combine and flashed an improved jumper. I personally have a feeling Jordan Mickey will be a special defensive PF and would take him.

[hwangjini_1]

welcome to cb. thanks for starting an interesting thread.

i would be delighted with any of these three at draft slot #33. at #28, i would not mind mickey or alexander. but i suspect those two will be gone by then.

oh, and by the way, here is a tp as a way to encourage you to break you text into paragraphs when you post. that makes it much easier to read that way. 

[Smartacus]

Don't think Mickey will be there by our second pick but if so he'd be my pick. I agree that he could be a legitimate NBA defensive presence and jump shooter.

Cliff Alexander is very undervalued at this point considering where he came from. I'll never understand why receiving impermissible benefits in high school should affect a player's draft stock. It's not like drugs or domestic violence it's an offense that is literally impossible for the player to ever repeat.

As for Dakari Johnson, heard on a podcast recently that commitment seems to be the main issue. Here's a player that moves like molasses and can't get off the ground to save his life. A player was known for easily getting gassed at Kentucky and shows up to the combine with 15% body fat. Sounds more like a player that'll be out of the league in 3 years than a rotation guy but hey who knows? Dakari Johnson will go as far as he takes himself.

Edit: Welcome to CB!

[CFAN38]

Solid question given that all 3 may be options at #28 and possibly at #33.

Mickey and Alexander along with Harrell (who I think will be a draft day climber and go in the teens) are this drafts athletic undersized under skilled post players. In years past this was a looked down upon role in the NBA but with the contract Faried recently got and the playoff play of Tristan Thompson the league maybe coming around to these guys. The fact that teams are playing smaller allows highly mobile under 6'9 bigs to carve out careers because they can move laterally on D and get by better then lumbering bigs on switches. I would take Alexander over Mickey in this draft just based on perceived potential. Mickey seems like he may be closer to his peak as a player and Alexander has a long way to go. Whether Alexander reaches his peak remains to be seen but is worth the gamble. I also think Alexander will physically transition better to the NBA. While their combine measurements where nearly identical looking at the two guys Alexander looks to have the bigger frame and has already actually lost weight to get to 239lbs. This leads me to believe he will eventually be a very in shape and strong 250lbs PF. Mickey seems to have a smaller frame and as of 2012 only weighed 211 lbs (at 17). Alexander was 240lbs at same age.

D Johnson is the traditional NBA big man who teams would have been all over 5-8 years ago but seem to be shying away from as the game evolves. While his testing numbers where not super athletic he did measure a 9'4" standing reach. While some players sand bag this measurement for better vert numbers he clearly did not. Even still his numbers are close to Greg Monores and Tyler Zellers. One of the most interesting arguments I can pose for Johnson is how would he be viewed if he played on a different team in college? In a fan post I wrote a few months ago I comped his per 40 to Okafors. They are very similar when you factor in the FGA Okafor received compared to Dakari's. I'm not saying they are anywhere near the same level as a prospect but Dakari is still only 19 and a rare back to the basket scorer in today's game. I cant see a way where he isn't worth a shot at #28. I mean Fab was a first round pick.

To answer the original question my picks go Johnson, Alexander then Mickey.

[Tr1boy]

Mickey for me. Reminds me of a slightly shorter Chris Bosh.  Not as skilled offensivley but has the same deadly 1st step. Not only a gifted shot blocker but also has a high iq defensively. Rarely fails to fight to deny entry passes

Like some have said , he might not be available at 28.  Hope Celts pick him one way or the other.   Dont mind getting Dakari with the 45 th pick

http://youtu.be/KvA-1x9aq4k

[slamtheking]

been leaning towards Johnson with #33 but been hearing his drive is being questioned.  if that's the case, I would lean towards Cliff over Mickey based on their physical builds and Cliff's drive seems to be all out so that's a definite plus. 

the drawback for me on both Cliff and Mickey is that they're PFs with limitations such that they're both likely to be inferior players to who we already have (Sully and KO)

[Evantime34]

been leaning towards Johnson with #33 but been hearing his drive is being questioned.  if that's the case, I would lean towards Cliff over Mickey based on their physical builds and Cliff's drive seems to be all out so that's a definite plus. 

the drawback for me on both Cliff and Mickey is that they're PFs with limitations such that they're both likely to be inferior players to who we already have (Sully and KO)

Didn't Johnson gain a decent amount of weight after the college season? I thought I read he came into the combine out of shape.

I would be happy with Mickey or Alexander not a Dakari fan. I don't think there is much place in this league for Perk lite.

[hwangjini_1]

Mickey for me. Reminds me of a slightly shorter Chris Bosh.  Not as skilled offensivley but has the same deadly 1st step. Not only a gifted shot blocker but also has a high iq defensively. Rarely fails to fight to deny entry passes

Like some have said , he might not be available at 28.  Hope Celts pick him one way or the other.   Dont mind getting Dakari with the 45 th pick

http://youtu.be/KvA-1x9aq4k

this is an open request to the entire board. it is not directed at triboy, i just happen to use his video for the request.

thank you all for posting videos of players. but, would it be too much to ask that poster include a quick sentence stating the PLAYER'S NUMBER or some identifying trait? i regularly spend the first 10 to 20 seconds of each video thinking "which one of these 10 guys am i supposed to watch? which one is the player being discussed? is it THIS guy who passed the ball or THAT guy who shot the ball?"

thanks in advance.

[Evantime34]

Mickey for me. Reminds me of a slightly shorter Chris Bosh.  Not as skilled offensivley but has the same deadly 1st step. Not only a gifted shot blocker but also has a high iq defensively. Rarely fails to fight to deny entry passes

Like some have said , he might not be available at 28.  Hope Celts pick him one way or the other.   Dont mind getting Dakari with the 45 th pick

http://youtu.be/KvA-1x9aq4k

this is an open request to the entire board. it is not directed at triboy, i just happen to use his video for the request.

thank you all for posting videos of players. but, would it be too much to ask that poster include a quick sentence stating the PLAYER'S NUMBER or some identifying trait? i regularly spend the first 10 to 20 seconds of each video thinking "which one of these 10 guys am i supposed to watch? which one is the player being discussed? is it THIS guy who passed the ball or THAT guy who shot the ball?"

thanks in advance.

In this case number 25. In general it is safe to assume the guy in the highlight video is either the guy with the ball or the guy that ends up with the ball at the end of the play.

[Silent Storm]

Rakeem Christmas is a better choice than all 3 of those guys in the second round. He has good size, he's intelligent on and off the court, he sets hard screens, and he has shown the ability to learn and improve. At the combine he measured in at 6'9.75" in shoes, 243 lbs, 7'5.25" wingspan, and a 9'2.5" standing reach.

[Tr1boy]

Mickey for me. Reminds me of a slightly shorter Chris Bosh.  Not as skilled offensivley but has the same deadly 1st step. Not only a gifted shot blocker but also has a high iq defensively. Rarely fails to fight to deny entry passes

Like some have said , he might not be available at 28.  Hope Celts pick him one way or the other.   Dont mind getting Dakari with the 45 th pick

http://youtu.be/KvA-1x9aq4k

this is an open request to the entire board. it is not directed at triboy, i just happen to use his video for the request.

thank you all for posting videos of players. but, would it be too much to ask that poster include a quick sentence stating the PLAYER'S NUMBER or some identifying trait? i regularly spend the first 10 to 20 seconds of each video thinking "which one of these 10 guys am i supposed to watch? which one is the player being discussed? is it THIS guy who passed the ball or THAT guy who shot the ball?"

thanks in advance.

He wears number 25, has a real long wingspan.  There is a highlight early in the clip where it just showing him making an outless pass. Another a little further defending/denying entry pass to Towns. Other than these two clips, he is the one finishing plays, boxing out for rebounds, blocking shots. That last dunk is ridiculous

[Eddie20]

CFAN38, solid points on Alexander vs Mickey in terms of frame. Alexander looks like he can easily be 260 -265 once his body matures further. He's 240 now, and carrying a very low body fat percentage.

Some of the stats are very similar between the two, but Alexander is a bit bigger, stronger, and longer and plays with the much higher motor. Alexander is also about 16 months younger and is just 1 year removed from being the #4 overall player out of HS.

PER 40 Numbers

PPG
Alexander 16.2
Mickey 17.7

RPG
Alexander 12.0
Mickey 11.4

BPG
Alexander 3.0
Mickey 4.1

FG%
Alexander 56.6
Mickey 50.4

FT%
Alexander 67.1
Mickey 64.6


Advanced Metrics

PER
Alexander 23.2
Mickey 21.7

Offensive Rating
Alexander 118.2
Mickey 99.7

Defensive Rating
Alexander 95.0
Mickey 90.2

True Shooting %
Alexander 59.8
Mickey 53.3

Combine Measurements

Height
Alexander 6' 8.5"
Mickey 6' 8.25"

Weight
Alexander 239
Mickey 238

BF%
Alexander 5.8
Mickey 7.2

Wingspan
Alexander 7' 3.5"
Mickey 7' 3.25"   

Standing Reach
Alexander 9' 1.5"
Mickey 8' 10"

I'll take Alexander for the higher upside, better back to the basket moves, higher motor, ability to finish strong around the basket, and in thinking the only reason he'll even be available at #28 is because of the NCAA suspension.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcU0LT4GoTc

[CFAN38]

Rakeem Christmas is a better choice than all 3 of those guys in the second round. He has good size, he's intelligent on and off the court, he sets hard screens, and he has shown the ability to learn and improve. At the combine he measured in at 6'9.75" in shoes, 243 lbs, 7'5.25" wingspan, and a 9'2.5" standing reach.

Christmas is going to make who ever drafts him very happy as he will be a rotational big very early on in his career. Most of the players drafted in the 2nd and even in the late first will never make it to this level. However Christmas will also be close to a finished product upon entering the NBA meaning his ceiling is low. Johnson and Alexander may never reach Christmas's level as a player but they also carry the hope of development due to being only 19yrs old.

With that I would not be at all disappointed to see Christmas as a Celtic. Johnson or Alexander at #28 and then Christmas at #33 could be a great big man haul.

[TheTruthFot18]

Alexander, McCullough, Christmas, Mickey (better defender) all seem like a Brandon Bass replacement. Some might be better at defense, or shooting, or post moves, ore rebounding but they all fit that rotational player role he played so well.

I think Mickey could be the biggest gamble but Christmas could be a solid backup as well, especially since he has an inch on the first two guys.

Also, I like Dakari Johnson as a backup. He'd be the complete opposite of Zeller. We could also trade that 2nd rounder and sigh  Biyombo.

[Tr1boy]

CFAN38, solid points on Alexander vs Mickey in terms of frame. Alexander looks like he can easily be 260 -265 once his body matures further. He's 240 now, and carrying a very low body fat percentage.

Some of the stats are very similar between the two, but Alexander is a bit bigger, stronger, and longer and plays with the much higher motor. Alexander is also about 16 months younger and is just 1 year removed from being the #4 overall player out of HS.

PER 40 Numbers

PPG
Alexander 16.2
Mickey 17.7

RPG
Alexander 12.0
Mickey 11.4

BPG
Alexander 3.0
Mickey 4.1

FG%
Alexander 56.6
Mickey 50.4

FT%
Alexander 67.1
Mickey 64.6


Advanced Metrics

PER
Alexander 23.2
Mickey 21.7

Offensive Rating
Alexander 118.2
Mickey 99.7

Defensive Rating
Alexander 95.0
Mickey 90.2

True Shooting %
Alexander 59.8
Mickey 53.3

Combine Measurements

Height
Alexander 6' 8.5"
Mickey 6' 8.25"

Weight
Alexander 239
Mickey 238

BF%
Alexander 5.8
Mickey 7.2

Wingspan
Alexander 7' 3.5"
Mickey 7' 3.25"   

Standing Reach
Alexander 9' 1.5"
Mickey 8' 10"

I'll take Alexander for the higher upside, better back to the basket moves, higher motor, ability to finish strong around the basket, and in thinking the only reason he'll even be available at #28 is because of the NCAA suspension.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcU0LT4GoTc

Dont forget

Mickey : standstill leap: 33 inches, max vert leap: 37.5 inches

Alexander didnt even test. But prob has a max vert leap = the same as Mickey Standstill leap measurement at 33 inches. If not less

Also Mickeys max vertical reach is ridiculous combining his wingspan, reach and max vert leap.   That is why Mickey is considered above the rim and alexander is not