Author Topic: Getting Paul Millsap  (Read 18487 times)

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Re: Getting Paul Millsap
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2015, 01:26:09 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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If we offer a max 1 year + player option with restricted free agency, it could entice some guys to come here. Millsap is a money man in my opinion.

That's not how restricted free agency works.

d'oh! well unrestricted, or w.e. we should be able to retain someone after being a part of the club, most of the players after leaving say they loved playing in Boston.

If your goal is to use a short stint to convince someone to stay in Boston long-term, the strategy would be to look for players who will hit free agency in a year and be willing to give up draft picks and young players for a guy who might walk with nothing in return next summer.

We would have to give up draft picks and players to sign Millsap in free agency?  ???

My strategy is to make a player interested by allowing them to be financially savy, we should use the new TV deal to our advantage when it comes to the big tier FAs, especially those already in awesome teams.

No, I'm saying that instead of trying to sign a free agent like Millsap to a short contract, you should look at players who hits free agency in 2016 and whose teams may be nervous about losing them and be willing to give up enough assets that would be a huge overpay for a one-year rental for the chance to convince them to stay in Boston.  I'm not sure if there are any good targets, but that's probably better.

Millsap signed a short deal so he would be a free agent this year and still be young enough to land a big long-term contract.  I think he is a bad target for your plan. 
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Re: Getting Paul Millsap
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2015, 01:37:58 PM »

Offline CelticGuardian

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If we offer a max 1 year + player option with restricted free agency, it could entice some guys to come here. Millsap is a money man in my opinion.

That's not how restricted free agency works.

d'oh! well unrestricted, or w.e. we should be able to retain someone after being a part of the club, most of the players after leaving say they loved playing in Boston.

If your goal is to use a short stint to convince someone to stay in Boston long-term, the strategy would be to look for players who will hit free agency in a year and be willing to give up draft picks and young players for a guy who might walk with nothing in return next summer.

We would have to give up draft picks and players to sign Millsap in free agency?  ???

My strategy is to make a player interested by allowing them to be financially savy, we should use the new TV deal to our advantage when it comes to the big tier FAs, especially those already in awesome teams.

No, I'm saying that instead of trying to sign a free agent like Millsap to a short contract, you should look at players who hits free agency in 2016 and whose teams may be nervous about losing them and be willing to give up enough assets that would be a huge overpay for a one-year rental for the chance to convince them to stay in Boston.  I'm not sure if there are any good targets, but that's probably better.

Millsap signed a short deal so he would be a free agent this year and still be young enough to land a big long-term contract.  I think he is a bad target for your plan.

But if he accepted the offer, he could opt out and hit the market again in 2016 and get paid even more for a whole five years. By then we should be able to match anybody that makes an offer as our cap will rise along with the leagues. We would not need to get rid of any assets, just cap space. I'm assuming you are thinking about the sign and trade method, which I guess you would have to give something up to get him back, but once it gets to that I don't believe a player is worth weakening our team, unless he's really that impactful.. The one year being both rental and a trial run.

Re: Getting Paul Millsap
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2015, 02:28:59 PM »

Offline Moranis

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What exactly does getting Millsap accomplish for Boston?  Sure he makes the team better, but he doesn't make Boston a contender and his age is not a great fit with the rest of the roster.  So I don't see the point, unless he is the second move, with the first being the acquisition of a #1 because Millsap is not a #1 (though could be a #2 for the next couple of seasons). 
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Re: Getting Paul Millsap
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2015, 02:37:00 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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What exactly does getting Millsap accomplish for Boston?  Sure he makes the team better, but he doesn't make Boston a contender and his age is not a great fit with the rest of the roster.  So I don't see the point, unless he is the second move, with the first being the acquisition of a #1 because Millsap is not a #1 (though could be a #2 for the next couple of seasons).
He is an asset we can acquire without giving anything up. He makes Boston more attractive for a #1 who could join the team via free agency or convince a #1 that Boston would be a good fit in trade. If he plays well and it doesn't work out we can trade him for a pick we wouldn't have otherwise had, or maybe even work him into a trade for a superstar.

IMO adding quality assets that have trade value is always a good idea even if it isn't a perfect fit roster wise.
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Re: Getting Paul Millsap
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2015, 03:36:18 PM »

Offline Moranis

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What exactly does getting Millsap accomplish for Boston?  Sure he makes the team better, but he doesn't make Boston a contender and his age is not a great fit with the rest of the roster.  So I don't see the point, unless he is the second move, with the first being the acquisition of a #1 because Millsap is not a #1 (though could be a #2 for the next couple of seasons).
He is an asset we can acquire without giving anything up. He makes Boston more attractive for a #1 who could join the team via free agency or convince a #1 that Boston would be a good fit in trade. If he plays well and it doesn't work out we can trade him for a pick we wouldn't have otherwise had, or maybe even work him into a trade for a superstar.

IMO adding quality assets that have trade value is always a good idea even if it isn't a perfect fit roster wise.
I disagree with pretty much all of this.  (1) We give up space that could be used elsewhere to acquire him.  So why acquire someone who doesn't make you a contender, doesn't make you close to a contender, and is not a direct means to making you close to a contender. 

(2) I don't think Millsap is drawing any free agents to Boston, especially top tier players.  No such player ever expressed interest in playing in Atlanta with Millsap and they have Horford and Teague who are both as good or better than Millsap. 

(3) If he doesn't work out, even if he plays well (though I'm not sure how that happens), I'm not so sure we can just assume we can trade him and get any sort of value in return.  Given his age and his presumably large contract, there just might not be a market for him even in the new salary cap era. 

If Boston has a #1 guy (like say a trade for Cousins) then Millsap makes a ton of sense, without that #1 guy it is a silly signing that wastes valuable resources.
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Re: Getting Paul Millsap
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2015, 03:55:57 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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What exactly does getting Millsap accomplish for Boston?  Sure he makes the team better, but he doesn't make Boston a contender and his age is not a great fit with the rest of the roster.  So I don't see the point, unless he is the second move, with the first being the acquisition of a #1 because Millsap is not a #1 (though could be a #2 for the next couple of seasons).
He is an asset we can acquire without giving anything up. He makes Boston more attractive for a #1 who could join the team via free agency or convince a #1 that Boston would be a good fit in trade. If he plays well and it doesn't work out we can trade him for a pick we wouldn't have otherwise had, or maybe even work him into a trade for a superstar.

IMO adding quality assets that have trade value is always a good idea even if it isn't a perfect fit roster wise.
I disagree with pretty much all of this.  (1) We give up space that could be used elsewhere to acquire him.  So why acquire someone who doesn't make you a contender, doesn't make you close to a contender, and is not a direct means to making you close to a contender. 

(2) I don't think Millsap is drawing any free agents to Boston, especially top tier players.  No such player ever expressed interest in playing in Atlanta with Millsap and they have Horford and Teague who are both as good or better than Millsap. 

(3) If he doesn't work out, even if he plays well (though I'm not sure how that happens), I'm not so sure we can just assume we can trade him and get any sort of value in return.  Given his age and his presumably large contract, there just might not be a market for him even in the new salary cap era. 

If Boston has a #1 guy (like say a trade for Cousins) then Millsap makes a ton of sense, without that #1 guy it is a silly signing that wastes valuable resources.
1. Millsap is a quality asset, and a greater one than just the cap space. The space that he is taking up would only be wasted on him if a player superior to him wants to come to Boston. If this is the case we could move Millsap and then sign said player, picking up an additional asset in the process. Adding Millsap wouldn't prevent us from signing a max player next year when the cap increases and Wallace comes off the books. What makes teams a contender is accumulating assets and then turning them into elite players, so in fact acquiring an asset like Millsap does make you a contender, albeit in a less linear way than you seem to prefer.

2. Millsap is drawing more free agents to Boston the the hole in our cap sheet that signing no one would create.

3. His value will be evident when he gets multiple offers this summer

4. The problem with your line of thinking is it is far too linear. Your team building preference seems to be add a star then get those that fit around him. However, just because we don't have a star it shouldn't prevent us from adding an upgrade in free agency because that upgrade can lead to a trade asset we wouldn't otherwise have. For example, Jeff Green was miscast as a number one option on our team, does this mean we shouldn't have signed him? Of course not, because signing him net us a first round pick (and potential Jerebko and Datome longterm) that we could use to trade for a star in the future. The name of the game is acquiring assets in any way possible then turning them into star players.

Forgoing a quality asset because he isn't a star might leave you an asset short of acquiring a star in the future.
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Re: Getting Paul Millsap
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2015, 04:51:17 PM »

Offline Timdawgg

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What exactly does getting Millsap accomplish for Boston?  Sure he makes the team better, but he doesn't make Boston a contender and his age is not a great fit with the rest of the roster.  So I don't see the point, unless he is the second move, with the first being the acquisition of a #1 because Millsap is not a #1 (though could be a #2 for the next couple of seasons).
He is an asset we can acquire without giving anything up. He makes Boston more attractive for a #1 who could join the team via free agency or convince a #1 that Boston would be a good fit in trade. If he plays well and it doesn't work out we can trade him for a pick we wouldn't have otherwise had, or maybe even work him into a trade for a superstar.

IMO adding quality assets that have trade value is always a good idea even if it isn't a perfect fit roster wise.
I disagree with pretty much all of this.  (1) We give up space that could be used elsewhere to acquire him.  So why acquire someone who doesn't make you a contender, doesn't make you close to a contender, and is not a direct means to making you close to a contender. 

(2) I don't think Millsap is drawing any free agents to Boston, especially top tier players.  No such player ever expressed interest in playing in Atlanta with Millsap and they have Horford and Teague who are both as good or better than Millsap. 

(3) If he doesn't work out, even if he plays well (though I'm not sure how that happens), I'm not so sure we can just assume we can trade him and get any sort of value in return.  Given his age and his presumably large contract, there just might not be a market for him even in the new salary cap era. 

If Boston has a #1 guy (like say a trade for Cousins) then Millsap makes a ton of sense, without that #1 guy it is a silly signing that wastes valuable resources.

i think he is in the mix and would be part of a master plan. (ie Ray Allen, When we got him alot of us were scratching our heads and even a little mad for a couple days not realizing the other show was going to drop)...that is what I would expect with Milsap, if we got him I would instantly be waiting for the other shoe to drop and knowing Ainge that other shoe would drop..hopefully Gasol or Cousins..
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Re: Getting Paul Millsap
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2015, 10:20:29 AM »

Offline Moranis

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What exactly does getting Millsap accomplish for Boston?  Sure he makes the team better, but he doesn't make Boston a contender and his age is not a great fit with the rest of the roster.  So I don't see the point, unless he is the second move, with the first being the acquisition of a #1 because Millsap is not a #1 (though could be a #2 for the next couple of seasons).
He is an asset we can acquire without giving anything up. He makes Boston more attractive for a #1 who could join the team via free agency or convince a #1 that Boston would be a good fit in trade. If he plays well and it doesn't work out we can trade him for a pick we wouldn't have otherwise had, or maybe even work him into a trade for a superstar.

IMO adding quality assets that have trade value is always a good idea even if it isn't a perfect fit roster wise.
I disagree with pretty much all of this.  (1) We give up space that could be used elsewhere to acquire him.  So why acquire someone who doesn't make you a contender, doesn't make you close to a contender, and is not a direct means to making you close to a contender. 

(2) I don't think Millsap is drawing any free agents to Boston, especially top tier players.  No such player ever expressed interest in playing in Atlanta with Millsap and they have Horford and Teague who are both as good or better than Millsap. 

(3) If he doesn't work out, even if he plays well (though I'm not sure how that happens), I'm not so sure we can just assume we can trade him and get any sort of value in return.  Given his age and his presumably large contract, there just might not be a market for him even in the new salary cap era. 

If Boston has a #1 guy (like say a trade for Cousins) then Millsap makes a ton of sense, without that #1 guy it is a silly signing that wastes valuable resources.
1. Millsap is a quality asset, and a greater one than just the cap space. The space that he is taking up would only be wasted on him if a player superior to him wants to come to Boston. If this is the case we could move Millsap and then sign said player, picking up an additional asset in the process. Adding Millsap wouldn't prevent us from signing a max player next year when the cap increases and Wallace comes off the books. What makes teams a contender is accumulating assets and then turning them into elite players, so in fact acquiring an asset like Millsap does make you a contender, albeit in a less linear way than you seem to prefer.

2. Millsap is drawing more free agents to Boston the the hole in our cap sheet that signing no one would create.

3. His value will be evident when he gets multiple offers this summer

4. The problem with your line of thinking is it is far too linear. Your team building preference seems to be add a star then get those that fit around him. However, just because we don't have a star it shouldn't prevent us from adding an upgrade in free agency because that upgrade can lead to a trade asset we wouldn't otherwise have. For example, Jeff Green was miscast as a number one option on our team, does this mean we shouldn't have signed him? Of course not, because signing him net us a first round pick (and potential Jerebko and Datome longterm) that we could use to trade for a star in the future. The name of the game is acquiring assets in any way possible then turning them into star players.

Forgoing a quality asset because he isn't a star might leave you an asset short of acquiring a star in the future.
We signed Jeff Green when Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, and Rajon Rondo were on the team.  Not nearly the same thing.

You do not win NBA championships without HOFers in their prime on your team (and pretty much every championship had 2 or more such players).  If you don't have those players, your odds of a championship are pretty much nil.  If you are a mid-level playoff team, with no cap space (or less than other teams), and no real high level draft picks (either for using or trading), it is almost impossible to acquire one such player nevertheless two. 

Signing Millsap, whose age is prohibitive to a long term title contender, is a waste of resources and an ultimate set back to putting together a title team.  Signing Millsap when you have a clear #1 player, clear HOF talent, etc. makes plenty of sense.  Millsap is Atlanta's 3rd best player and they are struggling to beat a team that doesn't have its best player in the 2nd round of the playoffs (and for the record Wall is clearly the best player in that series if he is healthy).  Sports are about winning titles, if you aren't a contender and aren't a young team that has a potential championship nucleous on it (like say New Orleans), then you are just wasting time.  Boston is neither of those things and shouldn't be signing role players (even great ones like Millsap) until you have the core in place.  It just sets you back in the long run.
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Re: Getting Paul Millsap
« Reply #38 on: May 13, 2015, 07:34:20 PM »

Offline gpap

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For fans of a team full of role players that got destroyed in the playoffs and swept there are some that are being VERY, VERY picky on this site.

People, we are not getting Anthony Davis or Kevin Durant so let's bring out expectations down a LITTLE bit.

I'd be delighted with a pick up like Millsap.

Not to mention, maybe Horford can follow him here a year later.

Re: Getting Paul Millsap
« Reply #39 on: May 13, 2015, 07:48:31 PM »

Offline Dino Pitino

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You do not win NBA championships without HOFers in their prime on your team (and pretty much every championship had 2 or more such players).  If you don't have those players, your odds of a championship are pretty much nil. 

Joe Dumars is a Hall of Famer. But if he hadn't been on those two Pistons titlewinners, he's not in the HOF. But if he's not on the team, they don't win the titles. Requiring a team to have X number of HOFers can get circular.

If Millsap is the second best player on a two-time champion, makes a few more All Star teams, maybe wins a Finals MVP one year, he suddenly becomes a borderline HOF candidate. We don't think of him that way now. He's just a role player, etc. But if he plays a mere 3-4 minutes more per game, suddenly his stats are on par with some players who are universally recognized as franchise players. The question is not what he's been up until now, but what could he possibly be and do for us in the near future.

Quote
If you are a mid-level playoff team, with no cap space (or less than other teams), and no real high level draft picks (either for using or trading), it is almost impossible to acquire one such player nevertheless two.

Ultimate success in the NBA is almost impossible, full stop. It takes incredible luck or incredible skill. 13 of the last 16 titles have been won by the Spurs, Lakers, and Heat. Plus the Pistons once, the Celtics once, and the Mavs once. No other HOF-caliber players in the league mattered, ultimately, besides the ones who were forces for those six franchises. You are a fan of one of those six franchises, and you certainly remember the Celtics acquiring KG for a package centered around a dude who was drafted 15th. ("But we never get him without Ray, who we used the 6th pick to get..." But given the Sonics situation that year, they probably would've accepted a combination of less sexy picks if the 6th weren't an option. Then there's Pierce, who had been drafted 10th long before.) So, the team you root for did the almost-impossible, and it's still run by the same GM, who will have multiple sexy future 1sts at his disposal regardless of how much his own team improves. As for cap space, the whole league will soon be swimming in it.

Quote
Signing Millsap, whose age is prohibitive to a long term title contender, is a waste of resources and an ultimate set back to putting together a title team.

He's not going to decline for another 3-4 years.

Quote
Signing Millsap when you have a clear #1 player, clear HOF talent, etc. makes plenty of sense.  Millsap is Atlanta's 3rd best player and they are struggling to beat a team that doesn't have its best player in the 2nd round of the playoffs (and for the record Wall is clearly the best player in that series if he is healthy).  Sports are about winning titles, if you aren't a contender and aren't a young team that has a potential championship nucleous on it (like say New Orleans), then you are just wasting time.  Boston is neither of those things and shouldn't be signing role players (even great ones like Millsap) until you have the core in place.  It just sets you back in the long run.

Third best? Are you talking about the Hawks?

Let's say Millsap plays 36+ minutes a game the next three seasons, averages about 19-20 points, 9-10 rebounds, 3-4 assists, 2 steals, and a block, all with good efficiency and unrelenting hustle. You're saying you don't want that? It's a waste of time and resources, a setback?
« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 08:07:53 PM by Dino Pitino »
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Re: Getting Paul Millsap
« Reply #40 on: May 13, 2015, 11:33:14 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Let's say Millsap plays 36+ minutes a game the next three seasons, averages about 19-20 points, 9-10 rebounds, 3-4 assists, 2 steals, and a block, all with good efficiency and unrelenting hustle. You're saying you don't want that? It's a waste of time and resources, a setback?

Not of it's going to impact our future cap flexibility to the point where that signing might come back to bite us on the backside.

The entire big-3 era we had clear holes in our team, but we couldn't fill those holes because we were crippled by the significant contracts of our stars.  I could totally live with that though, because every one of those three guys was a superstar calibre player - as was Rondo in the last couple of years of that era.

I don't have problems overpaying and threatening future cap flexibility if it brings us either:

a) A player who is a legit two-way superstar right now (e.g. CP3, Anthony Davis, DMC, Russell Westbrook)

b) A player who is young, with potential to become a future two-way superstar (e.g. Paul George, Jimmy Butler, Andrew Wiggins, Kawhi Leonard)

c) A guy who can consistently (an completely) dominate games with defense  (e.g. Serge Ibaka, DeAndre Jordan)

d) A guy who can consistently (an completely) dominate games with offense (e.g. Steph Curry, Kyrie Irving, Lemarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony)

Millsap has never fallen in to any of the above categories and it's likely he never will. 

He's one of those guys that desperate teams sign to max contracts as a backup plan when none of the real max contract guys want to sign with them.  Kind like Josh Smith and Greg Monroe, except those guys had/have youth and potential on their side then they signed/sign their new contracts so that added perceived future value.  Plus youth also helps with the contact numbers.

Unlike those guys Milsap doesn't have potential or youth on his side - low risk, low reward.  His age also means that the max contact will be higher than a Josh Smith / Greg Monroe max contract.


Re: Getting Paul Millsap
« Reply #41 on: May 13, 2015, 11:46:24 PM »

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He's a good player, but I haven't been impressed with him in the Wizards series. Most of the times I've seen him, he's been outside bricking 3s. Horford's looked way better.
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Re: Getting Paul Millsap
« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2015, 11:48:09 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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If Millsap is the second best player on a two-time champion, makes a few more All Star teams, maybe wins a Finals MVP one year, he suddenly becomes a borderline HOF candidate. We don't think of him that way now. He's just a role player, etc. But if he plays a mere 3-4 minutes more per game, suddenly his stats are on par with some players who are universally recognized as franchise players.

The numbers you quoted (19/9/3/2/1) are not 'franchise player' numbers.  I don't know of anybody who is considered a franchise player and who's best season of their career looked like that.

Despite that fact that you:

a) Took the stats from the best statistical season of his entire career
b) Adjusted those numbers to Per-36 Minute basis
c) Rounded those numbers up

So what you're basically saying here is that if astronauts land on Mars, a 25 year old african-american woman becomes the next US president, somebody finds archaeological evidence to prove the Loch Ness Monster really exists, and I suddenly get a huge promotion at work (that doubles my pay rate)...and all of those things happen at the exact same moment in time...then Paul Millsap might actually put up the borderline-all-star numbers you just quoted. 

Oh and yes, those really are just borderline All-Star numbers, depending on how deep the field is on a given year. 

They certainly are not 'franchise player' numbers - not in any realm of reality.   

When I think franchise player, I think of guys like Michael Jordan, Kevin Garnett, Lebron James, Kevin Durant, Karl Malone, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Demarcus Cousins, Dominique Wilkins, Julius Erving.  Guys who, 20 years after they retire, will still be the first name/face that springs to mind when you mention a certain franchise. 

There is no hope that Paul Millsap will ever be mentioned in that type of group.  No hope that he  will ever put up numbers even close to what those guys have.

Honestly I always felt that Millsap was one of the more underrated players in the league, but things have just taken a huge 360 these days.  For one of the first times in his career he finds himself on a top 4 team, and suddenly he's morphed from superstar messiah. 

It's always "one extreme to the other" on this board.   
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 12:07:17 AM by crimson_stallion »

Re: Getting Paul Millsap
« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2015, 11:53:05 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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Let's say Millsap plays 36+ minutes a game the next three seasons, averages about 19-20 points, 9-10 rebounds, 3-4 assists, 2 steals, and a block, all with good efficiency and unrelenting hustle. You're saying you don't want that? It's a waste of time and resources, a setback?

Not of it's going to impact our future cap flexibility to the point where that signing might come back to bite us on the backside.

The entire big-3 era we had clear holes in our team, but we couldn't fill those holes because we were crippled by the significant contracts of our stars.  I could totally live with that though, because every one of those three guys was a superstar calibre player - as was Rondo in the last couple of years of that era.

I don't have problems overpaying and threatening future cap flexibility if it brings us either:

a) A player who is a legit two-way superstar right now (e.g. CP3, Anthony Davis, DMC, Russell Westbrook)

b) A player who is young, with potential to become a future two-way superstar (e.g. Paul George, Jimmy Butler, Andrew Wiggins, Kawhi Leonard)

c) A guy who can consistently (an completely) dominate games with defense  (e.g. Serge Ibaka, DeAndre Jordan)

d) A guy who can consistently (an completely) dominate games with offense (e.g. Steph Curry, Kyrie Irving, Lemarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony)

Millsap has never fallen in to any of the above categories and it's likely he never will. 

He's one of those guys that desperate teams sign to max contracts as a backup plan when none of the real max contract guys want to sign with them.  Kind like Josh Smith and Greg Monroe, except those guys had/have youth and potential on their side then they signed/sign their new contracts so that added perceived future value.  Plus youth also helps with the contact numbers.

Unlike those guys Milsap doesn't have potential or youth on his side - low risk, low reward.  His age also means that the max contact will be higher than a Josh Smith / Greg Monroe max contract.



Paul Millsap, as far as power forwards go, is among the best 2 way players in the game. Well, not the best, he's not Anthony Davis. But, he plays both sides of the ball at an above average level. Millsap might not be a max guy, but he's spitting distance.

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Getting Paul Millsap
« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2015, 12:24:39 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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Let's say Millsap plays 36+ minutes a game the next three seasons, averages about 19-20 points, 9-10 rebounds, 3-4 assists, 2 steals, and a block, all with good efficiency and unrelenting hustle. You're saying you don't want that? It's a waste of time and resources, a setback?

Not of it's going to impact our future cap flexibility to the point where that signing might come back to bite us on the backside.

The entire big-3 era we had clear holes in our team, but we couldn't fill those holes because we were crippled by the significant contracts of our stars.  I could totally live with that though, because every one of those three guys was a superstar calibre player - as was Rondo in the last couple of years of that era.

I don't have problems overpaying and threatening future cap flexibility if it brings us either:

a) A player who is a legit two-way superstar right now (e.g. CP3, Anthony Davis, DMC, Russell Westbrook)

b) A player who is young, with potential to become a future two-way superstar (e.g. Paul George, Jimmy Butler, Andrew Wiggins, Kawhi Leonard)

c) A guy who can consistently (an completely) dominate games with defense  (e.g. Serge Ibaka, DeAndre Jordan)

d) A guy who can consistently (an completely) dominate games with offense (e.g. Steph Curry, Kyrie Irving, Lemarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony)

Millsap has never fallen in to any of the above categories and it's likely he never will. 

He's one of those guys that desperate teams sign to max contracts as a backup plan when none of the real max contract guys want to sign with them.  Kind like Josh Smith and Greg Monroe, except those guys had/have youth and potential on their side then they signed/sign their new contracts so that added perceived future value.  Plus youth also helps with the contact numbers.

Unlike those guys Milsap doesn't have potential or youth on his side - low risk, low reward.  His age also means that the max contact will be higher than a Josh Smith / Greg Monroe max contract.



Paul Millsap, as far as power forwards go, is among the best 2 way players in the game. Well, not the best, he's not Anthony Davis. But, he plays both sides of the ball at an above average level. Millsap might not be a max guy, but he's spitting distance.

I get what you're saying, but then you could also argue that about Angre Iguodala (among SF's)  or Josh Smith (at the PF spot) a couple of years back, or Andre Miller back in his prime. 

But nobody was taking Iggy over Carmelo, or Josh Smith over Blake Griffin, or Andre Miller over  Tony Parker.   

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Above Average Offense + Above Average Defense doesn't really = Elite superstar.  More like 'good starter' or 'excellent starter' depending on exactly how above average those abilities are.

The way I see it depth, teamwork and all-round players make a team competitive, but it's those stars who dominate certain aspects of the game who separate a good playoff teams (or a great regular season teams) from the great playoff teams.

I believe that in the playoffs, the NBA at the end of the day is all about matchups - you see the same team up to 7 times and at least 4 times.  You've scouted them as much as a team can scout and you know what they want to do before they do it - but just because you know what they are going to do, doesn't mean you can stop them from doing it.

This is where those elite players take over and can dominate an entire series, and often the opposing team, with all of their depth and versatility, just don't have enough sheer talent to stop them.   

For example, lets say you're the Knicks at the end of a close playoff game (haha good one! ;D ) and you have possession.  You draw up a play, but that play falls apart - maybe one of your guys messes up a screen, or the defense reads and reacts, either way the play doesn't go to plan.  You always know that if all else fails, you can get the ball to Melo and he will make something happen.  Maybe he makes the shot, maybe he misses it, but the instant he touches that ball every single defender's eyes are on him, you'll probably see three defenders running at him, and either he makes the impossible shot (which he does so often) or he uses that distraction to find the open man in the corner for the game winning three.

Lets say you're the Clippers, and you're in a tied playoff game, you're on defense, and you're playing Cleveland in the finals.  You try to deny Lebron the ball, but he finds a way to get it.  You try your best to defend him, but he ends up blowing by the defender and finds an angle to the basket.  Your main defensive play has failed, but you still have faith because you know you have DeAndre Jordan down there protecting the basket...and if Lebron is going to go for an easy layup his going to have to get it over that massive arm.

These, right here, are the guys you can depend on time after time to change then entire course of a game because they are do dominant at that one thing they do.  When all of your team plans fail, you can depend on those amazing individual to put your entire team on their individual shoulders and say "coach, I got this".   

Paul Millsap is not that guy.  He's consistently good across pretty much every area of his game, but there is not one single aspect of his game that he's elite at.  In fact nobody on the Hawks team is really that type of guy, and I think that's a big reason why they dominated the regular season so much, yet are really struggling to distance themselves in the playoffs. 
 
Don't get me wrong I really like Millsap as a player, but it's pretty much certain that some team out there is going to overpay and offer him a max contract...so getting Millsap most likely means spending max money, and if that's what it takes to get him then I don't want us to go after him, because he's not worth that.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 01:34:56 AM by crimson_stallion »