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Author Topic: if we have Thomas instead of Rondo to start the season. are we above .500?  (Read 3903 times)

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if we have Thomas instead of Rondo to start the season. are we above .500?
« on: April 14, 2015, 08:23:16 AM »

Offline cman88

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this is not a knock on rondo...but it is interesting to note that since we traded away Rondo our team has been playing at above a .500 pace and the ball movement has been amazing with this team. and really started our push to the playoffs.

so, I wonder. if we had this current lineup to start the season, are we an above .500 team right now? I say yes...Rondo dogged it here since coming back from his injury and hogged the ball. and i'm a Rondo fan. but the comments of "I haven't played defense in 2 years" is telling...he had 1 foot out the door and played like it

Thomas gives us something we haven't had since Pierce left. someone who you can put the ball in their hands and say "go out and score" and without Rondo hogging the ball, this team has had fun sharing the ball
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Re: if we have Thomas instead of Rondo to start the season. are we above .500?
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2015, 09:07:17 AM »

Offline littleteapot

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Smart, Zeller and Turner improved a TON over the course of the season. I think that's pretty unfair to say.
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Re: if we have Thomas instead of Rondo to start the season. are we above .500?
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2015, 09:08:39 AM »

Offline LGC88

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Rondo is not the type of player who gives 100% for 82 games.
If we have playoff rondo who hustle the entire season that way, it is another story.
Rondo wasn't surrounded with great players and that explain even better his attitude.
It was unacceptable for me. That's not being a Celtics.
Having say that, the answer of your question is YES, absolutely.
It doesn't say Thomas is better or not than Rondo. He's another type of player and most importantly he feels wanted here and is impressed by the Celtics culture. I believe he really want to shine here and be a part of history. He give 100% every night. He's smart, he's daring.
Also, another point very important, he's exactly what we needed Rondo to be more often (going in the paint and shoot the 3)
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Re: if we have Thomas instead of Rondo to start the season. are we above .500?
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2015, 09:13:47 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Especially if you ignore the fact that "I haven't played defense in 2 years" was a self-depreciating way of praising Bradley's defense.

The team was underachieving at the start of the year, started to play better once the trade deadline passed, and has the benefit of the Eastern Conference as well as being (mostly) healthy. The fact that Stevens seems to have a better time coaching comparatively bad players is nice, though.
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Re: if we have Thomas instead of Rondo to start the season. are we above .500?
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2015, 09:22:30 AM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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It's not about the talent, it's about stability.

Last year, there were injuries. Then trades. Then more injuries.

Remember J-Craw and Lee playing well?

This year, Rondo returned. Injuries.

Since the trade deadline, there has been no real change to the lineup.
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Re: if we have Thomas instead of Rondo to start the season. are we above .500?
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2015, 09:24:22 AM »

Offline saltlover

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Quote from: littleteapot on April 14, 2015, 09:07:17 AM
Smart, Zeller and Turner improved a TON over the course of the season. I think that's pretty unfair to say.

Not to mention Crowder has been very valuable as well, giving the energy that Jeff Green couldn't bring consistently.  Even though his shooting has cratered since the All-Star Break, he's still been an important piece.  When Green didn't score, he vanished.

Do I think the team as presently constituted is better than a .500 team for a full season?  Sure.  But Rondo isn't the only change that was made, not by a long shot.  I mean, Jerebko has shot 40% from 3 since he's been here.  I think Rondo would have loved to have a player like that to kick out to after he drove to the hoop.  It's a better team than in November and December, and Rondo isn't on it.  But there's really no point in playing the hypothetical.  Let's enjoy the team we have for what it is, and stop worrying about the team it isn't, for better or worse.
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Re: if we have Thomas instead of Rondo to start the season. are we above .500?
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2015, 09:24:28 AM »

Offline MasterEmile

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In his defense, rondo was leading the number 1 Pace in the league, The 5th best offense in the league and he was leading the league in assists (by a wide margin) plus he was rebounding at an insane rate for a point guard. The only problem with rondo here was no one who can create his own shot and no clutch scoring (which is a bit unfair to ask of rondo).
 
What Thomas gave us was someone who can score at will and in the clutch; which ironically was what we needed even with rondo.

Now for your question, with the current team we have. 45 wins wouldn't be so far fetched from the beginning of the season.
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Re: if we have Thomas instead of Rondo to start the season. are we above .500?
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2015, 09:27:30 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Our season began with one of the most difficult schedule as well, so maybe we don't win as much with Thomas either early on. But seeing how close we currently are to a .500 record, then hard not to assume that yes, we would've been above it.
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Re: if we have Thomas instead of Rondo to start the season. are we above .500?
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2015, 09:41:16 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Easily

Trading Rondo has been a blessing for Danny and the Celts.

Obtainning IT has been nothing short of amazing
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Re: if we have Thomas instead of Rondo to start the season. are we above .500?
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2015, 09:50:06 AM »

Offline Spilling Green Dye

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Yes, we'd likely be over .500, but I think Thomas replacing Rondo is only 30% or so of the reason.  With Stevens doing a terrific job as coach, the biggest improvement seems to be in execution of play and improvement of our players.  Practice makes perfect, or at least much better in this case.  As others have mentioned Crowder and the other guys we've gotten in are helping.

But Thomas shouldn't be underestimated.  We knew early in the season that the Celtics lacked rim protection and 3 point shooting.  While we do still need more of both (especially rim protection), Thomas helps to fill the need of 3 point shooting.  And he's also able to get into the lane and finish (or shoot free throws), which to me is just as big of an improvement over Rondo as his 3pt shooting/spacing is. 
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Re: if we have Thomas instead of Rondo to start the season. are we above .500?
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2015, 09:55:12 AM »

Offline xPOORx

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I believe that we may have.  I feel and have heard that the vet players like Rondo, Green and even Sullinger were in the way of Stevens running the team the way he saw fit.  Yes, I know Sully is still here, but the winning seemed to come when the three of them were out, and the younger players had two open ears for Stevens, instead of one on coach, one on the vets.
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Re: if we have Thomas instead of Rondo to start the season. are we above .500?
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2015, 10:02:10 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Quote from: xPOORx on April 14, 2015, 09:55:12 AM
I believe that we may have.  I feel and have heard that the vet players like Rondo, Green and even Sullinger were in the way of Stevens running the team the way he saw fit.  Yes, I know Sully is still here, but the winning seemed to come when the three of them were out, and the younger players had two open ears for Stevens, instead of one on coach, one on the vets.

Don't know why Sully keeps getting brought up in this discussions when the fact is that we were already winning when he was healthy, and even now at a diminished capacity while rusty, we have continued winning. So sorry, other than anecdotal and subjective preferrence of play, there's nothing to suggest that winning came as a consequence of Sully not being around.
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Re: if we have Thomas instead of Rondo to start the season. are we above .500?
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2015, 10:10:13 AM »

Offline xPOORx

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Quote from: BudweiserCeltic on April 14, 2015, 10:02:10 AM
[q
e author=xPOORx link=topic=77548.msg1863310#msg1863310 date=1429019712]
I believe that we may have.  I feel and have heard that the vet players like Rondo, Green and even Sullinger were in the way of Stevens running the team the way he saw fit.  Yes, I know Sully is still here, but the winning seemed to come when the three of them were out, and the younger players had two open ears for Stevens, instead of one on coach, one on the vets.

Don't know why Sully keeps getting brought up in this discussions when the fact is that we were already winning when he was healthy, and even now at a diminished capacity while rusty, we have continued winning. So sorry, other than anecdotal and subjective preferrence of play, there's nothing to suggest that winning came as a consequence of Sully not being around.
[/quote]

I just feel that Sully is the only player still in that locker room that Stevens will continue to have issues with.  Issues may be the wrong word, Sully, and hopefully I'm wrong, is still in the Rondo\Green state of mind.
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Re: if we have Thomas instead of Rondo to start the season. are we above .500?
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2015, 10:16:32 AM »

Offline quidinqui33

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We definitely would be over .500.  As it is, if we win the next two, we would only be a one game swing under .500 (40-42 rather than 41-41). 

Check this stat out from Forsberg at ESPN:

"Since Feb. 3, Boston has won 22 games, tied with the Houston Rockets and Cavaliers for third-most wins in the league in that span (only the Golden State Warriors and San Antonio Spurs have more). The Celtics were 14 games under .500 at 16-30 after a loss to Miami on Feb. 1, but own a .647 winning percentage since that point"

This only stat you need to know, and I think it has as much to do with Stevens getting a set roster as it does with any of moves that were made.  But make no mistake, this team is better with Thomas than it was with Rondo.

We are essentially tied for having the best win percentage in the conference since Feb. 3, which is right about when Steven had enough time after the Rondo and Green trades to get the roster settled in.

There are enough games played to show that we are playing much better basketball than a true 7 seed here in the second half of the season.  Bring on the Cavs baby!!!

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Re: if we have Thomas instead of Rondo to start the season. are we above .500?
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2015, 10:17:57 AM »

Offline danglertx

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Quote from: Spilling Green Dye on April 14, 2015, 09:50:06 AM
Yes, we'd likely be over .500, but I think Thomas replacing Rondo is only 30% or so of the reason.  With Stevens doing a terrific job as coach, the biggest improvement seems to be in execution of play and improvement of our players.  Practice makes perfect, or at least much better in this case.  As others have mentioned Crowder and the other guys we've gotten in are helping.

But Thomas shouldn't be underestimated.  We knew early in the season that the Celtics lacked rim protection and 3 point shooting.  While we do still need more of both (especially rim protection), Thomas helps to fill the need of 3 point shooting.  And he's also able to get into the lane and finish (or shoot free throws), which to me is just as big of an improvement over Rondo as his 3pt shooting/spacing is.

Think about all those games early to the middle of the year where we had Pressey come in and clank three after three.  We lost soooo many games by under 10 pts.  Could Thomas have swung a few of those by just hitting one or two extra threes, and a few free throws?  I'd say yes but of course that is just an opinion.  How many?  I'd guess at least a handful, maybe 5-10?  He has probably been our best offensive player so adding our best offensive player and getting less of Pressey is probably a win win.
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