If we get pick #15 or #16 in the draft, what do we trade to move up into top 8?

[Rakulp]

There's room for both types of threads...ones that are enjoying the playoff run and others with an eye to the future.  Just as there are many kinds of Celtic fans, having a variety of topics keeps this blog from being either a "homer" arena or our own version of Big Bang Theory with nothing but analytical and statistical discussions.

I enjoy them all.

Concerning the OP, with four picks available, it's my feeling that Danny already has some idea of what to do with those picks.  Personally, I think he'll swing for the fence on a free agent or a trade opportunity first.  I don't get the sense that he thinks this draft is all that and a bag of chips...especially with us in the playoff hunt and out of a Top 10 pick.

But if not, and there is a player that he feels he MUST have in this draft, then I'm sure he'll part with whatever is needed to get that person on the team.  For the first time in many years, we have more options than opportunities to use those options.

Rak

[AngryAndIrritable]

Not sure why there is all the dislike for this thread... and I say that as a 'Playoffs Or Nothing' guy.

Having said that, I don't see the need to trade up in this draft. There are not enough quality players for us to make a feasible and productive move with the assets we possess.

[boscel33]

Dude, we're so close to go to the post-season and you're thinking about the draft? Come on, I know we're a long way to go to be contenders but let's savor this moment with this team! LOL, okay fine. We're #15 if we go to the playoffs, and from that number I expect Ainge to trade up. How far can he go depends on how much he's willing to trade away form his collection of picks. If he can move up a few spots (12-13 range) he should take Oubre Jr. if he's still available. Dekker would be nice too. The main player (Cauley-Stein) I want would probably be gone by then so these two are pretty good picks from where they'll be choosing.

Personally, I start looking at the next draft right after the current one is complete.  Might be just me, but I'm a draft nut and don't think its ever too early to talk draft.

[greece66]

So if we make the playoffs, we're picking #15 or #16.
We are lucky enough to have a plethora of assets that we can trade to move up if there's someone we like, probably more assets than we could actually use, and can now get a pick similar to that which we would have gotten if we didn't make the playoffs. Gotta love Danny.
Currently we have 7 (maybe 8!)  first round picks for the next 3 drafts, including our own.

First round Picks:
-2015 Celtics pick (#15 or #16 if we make playoffs, if we miss playoffs it's likely #9 or #10)
-2015 Clippers first round pick
-2016 Dallas first round pick (protected #1-#8 for Dallas)
-2016 Celtics first round pick
-2016 Brooklyn first round pick
-2016 Minnesota first round pick (goes to two 2nd rounders on 2016 and 2017 if not conveyed in 2016 first rounder, where Minny must finish outside of bottom 12)
-2017 Celtics first round pick (can swap with Nets if needed)
-2017 Memphis first round pick

We then have ten 2nd round picks over the next 3 drafts:

-2015 Celtics 2nd round pick
-2015 Philly 2nd round pick
-2015 Washington 2nd round pick (maybe)
-2016 Dallas 2nd round pick
-2016 Cleveland 2nd round pick
-2016 Miami 2nd round pick
-2017 Cleveland 2nd round pick
-2017 Clippers 2nd round pick
-2016 and 2017 Minny 2nd rounders if they finish in bottom 12 teams in 2016.
(holy crap that's alot of 2nd round picks!)

Players as valuable trade assets and their remaining contracts starting 2015-16:

Isiah Thomas- 3 years approx $6.5 million per year
Avery Bradley- 3 years approx 8.2 million per year
Kelly Olynyk- 2 years approx $2.5 million per year
Evan Turner- 1 year approx $3.43 million
Marcus Smart- 3 years approx $3.8 million per year
Tyler Zeller-2 years approx $3.2 million per year
James Young- 3 years approx $1.6 million per year
Jared Sullinger- 1 year approx $2.26 million

So what will it take for us to move up into the top 10 picks?
What about the top 8?
Teams we can do this with are obviously in the top 10 but not top 5.
Those are currently:
Miami#10 needs bench strength
Charlotte#9 needs a Lance Stephenson replacement (Bradley?) and a starting power forward while Vonleh develops.
Detroit#8 Monroe is gone, so they'll need a power forward next to Drummond. Van Gundy would probably love Olynyk and Bradley for their three point shooting.
Denver#7 need a shooting guard (Bradley) Sully would also be an upgrade over Faried and clear cap room (in my opinion)
Sacramento#6 need a PF next to Cousins. Again, Sully would be a good piece for them, Olynyk would work as well as their stretch four.

I think to move from #15 or #16 into the top 10 we are looking (at the very least) at something like:

Sacramento:

Celtics send
Celtics 2015 first round pick #15+
2016 Dallas first round pick +
2016 Dallas 2nd round pick+
Kelly Olynk (plays PF next to Cousins and is cheap for 2 more years)

Kings send
2015 #6 pick
^ We'd probably need to send a Brooklyn pick instead of Dallas pick.

Denver

Celtics send
2015 Celtics first round pick+
2016 Dallas 2nd round pick+
Avery Bradley

Denver sends
2015 pick #7+
JJ Hickson ($5 million one year as Bass replacement)

Detroit

Celtics send
2015 Celtics first round pick+
2016 Cavs 2nd round pick+
Kelly Olynyk

Detroit sends
2015 #8 pick

Just a few ideas, does anyone else have some options or thoughts on above?
Any ideas with Charlotte? They could use Bradley and Sully or Olynyk in my opinion.

EDIT: who do you take if we move up into one of those spots? Why?

EDIT: Added Minny picks

Good post. TP.
Provided that if we are upgrading our draft it will be to (finally) get a rim protector, I would be more comfortable trading Zeller than Kelly.
Before getting injured KO was close to turning the second half of this season into his professional breakthrough. It would suck to trade him and watch everything falling in the right place while he is at a different team.
With Zeller, both we and the rest of the League know who he is by now, so there will be no painful 'what if' back thoughts in case our ways part.
I prefer to keep Sully for reasons similar to what I said on Kelly, although admittedly his name is the one most frequently involved in trade discussions.

[Rosco917]

It doesn't hurt to talk about the future of the organization.

I could see Sully or Kelly being traded to either move up in the draft or be included in a trade.

That said, besides the center position, I'm beginning to think we need more help at power forward than small forward. At least at SF we have players that can defend the position. They may not be top tier scorers, but they're young and have a little more upside. Our best month of the season happened with Sully not being available to even play.

 Remember, you can't accomplish a total rebuild in one year. Baby steps until you can make a leap.

Oh yes...good post.

[hwangjini_1]

Obviously you can post whatever you want when you want it but this post reeks of sour grapes and is a bad look. The celtics just won a well played games against one of the best teams in the league. They have a really good chance of making the playoffs now. If they do or don't, there will be plenty of boring time before the draft to suggest such proposals. Seriously try and enjoy the end of the season. It's actually fun and exciting to watch.

i disagree with celticsclay, though i understand his points. what i read from chambers was an acceptance of the celtics making the playoffs AND YET STILL being able to get a good draft pick.

most of the threads so far have shown us an "either, or" position. either we get to the playoffs and get a crappy draft pick, or, we get a good draft pick, but dont make the playoffs. this post was different, and very well thought out. it had lots of homework involved and the scenarios posted were pretty realistic over all. tp for all that.

depending upon the trade partner's willingness, who is available at what slot, and what the asking price is....ainge can, and should, trade a basket of goodies for a better pick. i had not imagined ainge as being able to move up to #8- #10, but now i see it might be possible.

[CeltsAcumen]

I would trade Sully if there was a deal that made sense.  His routine is getting old.

[KeepRondo]

Obviously you can post whatever you want when you want it but this post reeks of sour grapes and is a bad look. The celtics just won a well played games against one of the best teams in the league. They have a really good chance of making the playoffs now. If they do or don't, there will be plenty of boring time before the draft to suggest such proposals. Seriously try and enjoy the end of the season. It's actually fun and exciting to watch.

i disagree with celticsclay, though i understand his points. what i read from chambers was an acceptance of the celtics making the playoffs AND YET STILL being able to get a good draft pick.

most of the threads so far have shown us an "either, or" position. either we get to the playoffs and get a crappy draft pick, or, we get a good draft pick, but dont make the playoffs. this post was different, and very well thought out. it had lots of homework involved and the scenarios posted were pretty realistic over all. tp for all that.

depending upon the trade partner's willingness, who is available at what slot, and what the asking price is....ainge can, and should, trade a basket of goodies for a better pick. i had not imagined ainge as being able to move up to #8- #10, but now i see it might be possible.

I think we would have to package Young and the Nets pick with ours. I'm not sure a team would even bite at that but I have to think it might get us into the top 9. And then it all depends on who is still there. If WCS or Johnson are there, I would go for this trade.

[Donoghus]

I really wouldn't be surprised to see Danny punt this draft entirely.  Or at least the first round.

Move the pick in a package of some sort. 

[BDeCosta26]

I don't think all of the hate towards this thread is justified, but I disagree with you on tonight's game. They just looked off all night, and it probably had to do with us being extremely aggressive early on. Either way, a win is a win.

As for the actual thread, I'm not sure we can move down past 8, but I do think Detroit and Charlotte would entertain offers.

For Detroit, the other night showed that they need a stretch 4 next to AD, and KO would be a good fit there. However, they need a good wing as much as a power forward, so I would have to think they'd need to see someone like Oubre as the guy for them and a possible fall to 15. If they thought they could get him with our pick at 15, then I could see them doing some variation of your deal.

As for Charlotte, I'm still intrigued with Stephenson's potential. I'd do a Stephenson/#9 swap for Bradley/#15, because I still think Stephenson could be salvaged in our system. Furthermore, he only has next year guaranteed on his contract, so at worst we'd be trading Bradley for the #9 pick and two years less of his contract. We could then legitimately move IT to the starting lineup and run IT, Smart, Stephenson, KO/Sully, and (hopefully) WCS/Free Agent with a good balance between offense, defense, skill, and athleticism.

I like that idea of Bradley/#9 for Stephenson/#15. I love Bradley, and am one of his most vocal supporters round here but Stephenson, when engaged, is a slightly better player. Bradley shoots better, plays better D but Stephenson is no slouch himself on D, is a passable 3pt shooter and has better passing and rebound ability. I think him and Smart with IT off the bench would be quite a trifecta. Bradley's stock is up while Stephenson's is down so maybe you try to pry another asset from Charlotte, but even the straight swap you suggested saves us the LAC pick, the PHI 2nd and all the BRK picks. I doubt Danny gives a whole lot to move up 5-8 slots. But something that doesn't raid our assets and gets us into position to grab one of the Turner, WCS, Stanley Johnson group would be great. I really like AB but that deal is a good one for both sides.

Btw, excellent post Chambers, TP. The Kings are a real possibility it seems to me, and they'll be somewhere around 5-8. If they aren't gonna trade Cousins, they needa put some better talent around him and I think one of Sully/KO, our 1st, the LAC 1st and one of our early seconds could do it. One team I think is a possibility is Utah. They have a good, young roster who has played well since Gobert became the starter. They could make the playoffs next year with the right moves and good player development. Haywood looked good this year, Gobert is looking to fight with Noel and Smart for future DPOY awards, Favors is really good. Hood has potential. Zach Lowe, who I think is the best writer in basketball, said something a few weeks ago about Utah really wanting AB, and the possibility of swapping picks with them, adding Bradley and receiving Hood. Much as I like AB that's not a bad deal either.

I think moving up is a real possibility, and can be done without selling the farm. But if the right deal isn't there, I trust DA not to do anything too rash.

[KeepRondo]

I don't think all of the hate towards this thread is justified, but I disagree with you on tonight's game. They just looked off all night, and it probably had to do with us being extremely aggressive early on. Either way, a win is a win.

As for the actual thread, I'm not sure we can move down past 8, but I do think Detroit and Charlotte would entertain offers.

For Detroit, the other night showed that they need a stretch 4 next to AD, and KO would be a good fit there. However, they need a good wing as much as a power forward, so I would have to think they'd need to see someone like Oubre as the guy for them and a possible fall to 15. If they thought they could get him with our pick at 15, then I could see them doing some variation of your deal.

As for Charlotte, I'm still intrigued with Stephenson's potential. I'd do a Stephenson/#9 swap for Bradley/#15, because I still think Stephenson could be salvaged in our system. Furthermore, he only has next year guaranteed on his contract, so at worst we'd be trading Bradley for the #9 pick and two years less of his contract. We could then legitimately move IT to the starting lineup and run IT, Smart, Stephenson, KO/Sully, and (hopefully) WCS/Free Agent with a good balance between offense, defense, skill, and athleticism.

I like that idea of Bradley/#9 for Stephenson/#15. I love Bradley, and am one of his most vocal supporters round here but Stephenson, when engaged, is a slightly better player. Bradley shoots better, plays better D but Stephenson is no slouch himself on D, is a passable 3pt shooter and has better passing and rebound ability. I think him and Smart with IT off the bench would be quite a trifecta. Bradley's stock is up while Stephenson's is down so maybe you try to pry another asset from Charlotte, but even the straight swap you suggested saves us the LAC pick, the PHI 2nd and all the BRK picks. I doubt Danny gives a whole lot to move up 5-8 slots. But something that doesn't raid our assets and gets us into position to grab one of the Turner, WCS, Stanley Johnson group would be great. I really like AB but that deal is a good one for both sides.

Btw, excellent post Chambers, TP. The Kings are a real possibility it seems to me, and they'll be somewhere around 5-8. If they aren't gonna trade Cousins, they needa put some better talent around him and I think one of Sully/KO, our 1st, the LAC 1st and one of our early seconds could do it. One team I think is a possibility is Utah. They have a good, young roster who has played well since Gobert became the starter. They could make the playoffs next year with the right moves and good player development. Haywood looked good this year, Gobert is looking to fight with Noel and Smart for future DPOY awards, Favors is really good. Hood has potential. Zach Lowe, who I think is the best writer in basketball, said something a few weeks ago about Utah really wanting AB, and the possibility of swapping picks with them, adding Bradley and receiving Hood. Much as I like AB that's not a bad deal either.

I think moving up is a real possibility, and can be done without selling the farm. But if the right deal isn't there, I trust DA not to do anything too rash.

I don't see Charlotte considering that trade. I think the Stephenson trade was only for three years which is not going to hurt them for much longer. They are also a young team, so they will certainly value the draft pick higher then shedding Stephenson's contract.

[Csfan1984]

Well on the bright side of being in the playoffs nothing boost a player's trade value like a good post season.

[oldutican]

Moving up will cost more than it is worth. There is no sure fire pick at 8.

[celticsclay]

Chambers I think my response(s) to you were probably not fair so I apologize. After the game last night that I was really excited we won I saw a number of comments about us ruining our draft pick or how we only won cause Cleveland did not try.It also seemed like there were two threads on it. I found that talk really grumpy and sour grapes from people and kind of upsetting cause it seemed like we could just enjoy a well fought win. I lashed out at you as a random thread that seemed base on these sentiments. It doesn't seem like it was your intention to be a downer or devalue the current season so again, apologies.

[amenhotep04]

Everything will play itself out based on how the players in the draft Danny brings in test out. Certainly Danny can bring in more picks to move up with the right suitor. It appears that Danny has the right feel for what Brad wants. Given the success of the team since the Green trade, I'd be surprised if Danny blows up the team now. I think we're in the one or two pieces phase of rebuilding. I mean, even if we kept the team intact for next year and didn't add a soul, without injuries, we're looking at 45+ wins. Kind of amazing.