Willie Cauley-Stein Poor Tournament

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Solid defense and a couple of pretty good plays, but in 3 of the last 4 games, WCS has been relatively unimpressive.

Vs. Cincinnati 9 points, 2 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 blocks, 1 steal, 3 fouls
Vs. Notre Dame 6 points, 4 rebounds, 0 assists, 2 blocks, 0 steals, 1 foul
Vs. Wisconsin 2 points, 5 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 blocks, 1 steal, 2 fouls

The tools are undeniable, but especially for a third-year player (who is like a man among boys athletically) in the tourney, I would expect more of an impact.

This may cause him to slide a bit in the draft, which means he may be available. Either way, is this tournament cause for concern?

[Forza Juventus]

I didn't even think he was bad in the tournament. He improved this year a lot.

[MBunge]

WCS would be perfect for Boston.  Sully, KO and Zeller are all skilled offensively but relatively unathletic.  WCS would fit in great alongside any of them.

Mike

[csfansince60s]

Solid defense and a couple of pretty good plays, but in 3 of the last 4 games, WCS has been relatively unimpressive.

Vs. Cincinnati 9 points, 2 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 blocks, 1 steal, 3 fouls
Vs. Notre Dame 6 points, 4 rebounds, 0 assists, 2 blocks, 0 steals, 1 foul
Vs. Wisconsin 2 points, 5 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 blocks, 1 steal, 2 fouls

The tools are undeniable, but especially for a third-year player (who is like a man among boys athletically) in the tourney, I would expect more of an impact.

This may cause him to slide a bit in the draft, which means he may be available. Either way, is this tournament cause for concern?

He may drop, but not to 15 or 16 where we probably will be picking. Probably won't get Turner there and maybe not even Poetl or Kaminsky.

[Eddie20]

His game is better suited for the NBA. Much more wide open game with a lot of pick and rolls where he could be the roll man on lobs to the basket.

[Beat LA]

His game is better suited for the NBA. Much more wide open game with a lot of pick and rolls where he could be the roll man on lobs to the basket.

I'm not questioning his defensive ability, but he still doesn't appear to have any offensive SKILL.  I don't count dunking as a skill, btw, especially for a dude of his size.  If the best he ever becomes is Tyson Chandler, I think I'll pass.

[Smartacus]

Maybe a quiet tourney will make him into the guy that slides uncomfortably far in the first. The Rashard Lewis/Jared Sullinger guy that the camera keeps panning too every pick.

"With the 14th pick in the 2015 NBA Draft..."
Camera 2 close up on Cauley-Stein at table 6 no way he falls past Boston.

"The Boston Celtics select..."
OK Camera 2 he's tall so make sure you keep him in frame when he stands up

"Frank Kaminsky of The University of Wisconsin"
Kaminki? Quick switch off between Kaminsky on Camera 3 and Cauley-Stein on Camera 2. Make sure to catch the look disbelief on Cauley Stein's uncle's face!
 

[Eddie20]

His game is better suited for the NBA. Much more wide open game with a lot of pick and rolls where he could be the roll man on lobs to the basket.

I'm not questioning his defensive ability, but he still doesn't appear to have any offensive SKILL.  I don't count dunking as a skill, btw, especially for a dude of his size.  If the best he ever becomes is Tyson Chandler, I think I'll pass.

So you would pass on a rookie Tyson Chandler like player? I don't think you meant to write that. Probably a typo.

What is the offensive skillset that Drummond, Gobert, Jordan, etc. have? Cauley-Stein fits that mold.

[Beat LA]

His game is better suited for the NBA. Much more wide open game with a lot of pick and rolls where he could be the roll man on lobs to the basket.

I'm not questioning his defensive ability, but he still doesn't appear to have any offensive SKILL.  I don't count dunking as a skill, btw, especially for a dude of his size.  If the best he ever becomes is Tyson Chandler, I think I'll pass.

So you would pass on a rookie Tyson Chandler like player? I don't think you meant to write that. Probably a typo.

What is the offensive skillset that Drummond, Gobert, Jordan, etc. have? Cauley-Stein fits that mold.

No, that's not a typo.  Tyson Chandler-like players don't interest me at all, especially if they're not surrounded by accomplished guys, as would have been the case had Deandre Jordan been taken by Ainge in 2008.  All of those guys are dominant rebounders and shotblockers, sure, but, athleticism aside, what else do they bring to the game?  I'm not sure that Cauley-Stein is anywhere near those guys in terms of said categories, anyway.  He's going to have to add some muscle, as well, because he's not strong enough to guard post players right now, and that added weight will take away some of his overall speed and quickness.  He's been at Kentucky now for three years and I don't see any post moves or anything else offensively aside from dunking.  If you can show me a clip of him in the post, fine, but I haven't seen one yet.  Plus, he's already going to be 22 years old in August, and that's ancient by your standards.

[GreenGoggles]

His game is better suited for the NBA. Much more wide open game with a lot of pick and rolls where he could be the roll man on lobs to the basket.

I'm not questioning his defensive ability, but he still doesn't appear to have any offensive SKILL.  I don't count dunking as a skill, btw, especially for a dude of his size.  If the best he ever becomes is Tyson Chandler, I think I'll pass.

So you would pass on a rookie Tyson Chandler like player? I don't think you meant to write that. Probably a typo.

What is the offensive skillset that Drummond, Gobert, Jordan, etc. have? Cauley-Stein fits that mold.

No, that's not a typo.  Tyson Chandler-like players don't interest me at all, especially if they're not surrounded by accomplished guys, as would have been the case had Deandre Jordan been taken by Ainge in 2008.  All of those guys are dominant rebounders and shotblockers, sure, but, athleticism aside, what else do they bring to the game?  I'm not sure that Cauley-Stein is anywhere near those guys in terms of said categories, anyway.  He's going to have to add some muscle, as well, because he's not strong enough to guard post players right now, and that added weight will take away some of his overall speed and quickness.  He's been at Kentucky now for three years and I don't see any post moves or anything else offensively aside from dunking.  If you can show me a clip of him in the post, fine, but I haven't seen one yet.  Plus, he's already going to be 22 years old in August, and that's ancient by your standards.

WCS isn't even a dominate rebounder. I've never seen the hype with him. I want no part of him.

[Eddie20]

His game is better suited for the NBA. Much more wide open game with a lot of pick and rolls where he could be the roll man on lobs to the basket.

I'm not questioning his defensive ability, but he still doesn't appear to have any offensive SKILL.  I don't count dunking as a skill, btw, especially for a dude of his size.  If the best he ever becomes is Tyson Chandler, I think I'll pass.

So you would pass on a rookie Tyson Chandler like player? I don't think you meant to write that. Probably a typo.

What is the offensive skillset that Drummond, Gobert, Jordan, etc. have? Cauley-Stein fits that mold.

No, that's not a typo.  Tyson Chandler-like players don't interest me at all, especially if they're not surrounded by accomplished guys, like would have been the case had Deandre Jordan been taken by Ainge in 2008.  All of those guys are dominant rebounders and shotblockers, sure, but, athleticism aside, what else do they bring to the game?  I'm not sure that Cauley-Stein is anywhere near those guys in terms of said categories, anyway.  He's going to have to add some muscle, as well, because he's not strong enough to guard post players right now, and that added weight will take away some of his overall speed and quickness.  He's been at Kentucky now for three years and I don't see any post moves or anything else offensively aside from dunking.  If you can show me a clip of him in the post, fine, but I haven't seen one yet.  Plus, he's already going to be 22 years old in August, and that's ancient by your standards.

You might not have noticed, but the game has changed. You don't need a offensive post player to have success offensively. Does it hurt? No, obviously not. However, it's not crucial. The 5 best scoring teams in the NBA are Golden St, LAC, Dallas, Toronto, and Cleveland. How many back to basket centers do those teams have combined?

So by the numbers...

Clarkson is better than Smart
Rondo is the best PG in the NBA
LAL are better at drafting talent than the C's
You wouldn't want a Chandler like player


Did I miss any other one of your nuggets?

[Boris Badenov]

His game is better suited for the NBA. Much more wide open game with a lot of pick and rolls where he could be the roll man on lobs to the basket.

I'm not questioning his defensive ability, but he still doesn't appear to have any offensive SKILL.  I don't count dunking as a skill, btw, especially for a dude of his size.  If the best he ever becomes is Tyson Chandler, I think I'll pass.

So you would pass on a rookie Tyson Chandler like player? I don't think you meant to write that. Probably a typo.

What is the offensive skillset that Drummond, Gobert, Jordan, etc. have? Cauley-Stein fits that mold.

No, that's not a typo.  Tyson Chandler-like players don't interest me at all, especially if they're not surrounded by accomplished guys, as would have been the case had Deandre Jordan been taken by Ainge in 2008.  All of those guys are dominant rebounders and shotblockers, sure, but, athleticism aside, what else do they bring to the game?  I'm not sure that Cauley-Stein is anywhere near those guys in terms of said categories, anyway.  He's going to have to add some muscle, as well, because he's not strong enough to guard post players right now, and that added weight will take away some of his overall speed and quickness.  He's been at Kentucky now for three years and I don't see any post moves or anything else offensively aside from dunking.  If you can show me a clip of him in the post, fine, but I haven't seen one yet.  Plus, he's already going to be 22 years old in August, and that's ancient by your standards.

So, what you're saying is that even if you could know that WCS will be as good as Tyson Chandler - i.e., contending for multiple DPOY awards - you'd rather roll the dice with someone else at #12 or #15.

That displays a stunning degree of unfamiliarity with the kind of talent the #12 and #15 picks typically yield.

Tell you what, here are the last 20 players taken at those slots:

Dario Saric
Steven Adams
Jeremy Lamb
Alec Burks
Xavier Henry
Jason Thompson
Thad Young
Hilton Armstrong
Yaroslev Korolev
Robert Swift
Adreian Payne
Giannis A.
Moe Harkless
Kawhi Leonard
Larry Sanders
Austin Daye
Robin Lopez
Rodney Stuckey
Cedric Simmons
Antoine Wright

For you to believe that a sure Chandler clone is worse than these picks, you must believe that nearly all of them are better than Tyson Chandler.

So, stake your claim, and list the guys on that list that are definitively better than Chandler.

[Beat LA]

His game is better suited for the NBA. Much more wide open game with a lot of pick and rolls where he could be the roll man on lobs to the basket.

I'm not questioning his defensive ability, but he still doesn't appear to have any offensive SKILL.  I don't count dunking as a skill, btw, especially for a dude of his size.  If the best he ever becomes is Tyson Chandler, I think I'll pass.

So you would pass on a rookie Tyson Chandler like player? I don't think you meant to write that. Probably a typo.

What is the offensive skillset that Drummond, Gobert, Jordan, etc. have? Cauley-Stein fits that mold.

No, that's not a typo.  Tyson Chandler-like players don't interest me at all, especially if they're not surrounded by accomplished guys, as would have been the case had Deandre Jordan been taken by Ainge in 2008.  All of those guys are dominant rebounders and shotblockers, sure, but, athleticism aside, what else do they bring to the game?  I'm not sure that Cauley-Stein is anywhere near those guys in terms of said categories, anyway.  He's going to have to add some muscle, as well, because he's not strong enough to guard post players right now, and that added weight will take away some of his overall speed and quickness.  He's been at Kentucky now for three years and I don't see any post moves or anything else offensively aside from dunking.  If you can show me a clip of him in the post, fine, but I haven't seen one yet.  Plus, he's already going to be 22 years old in August, and that's ancient by your standards.

So, what you're saying is that even if you could know that WCS will be as good as Tyson Chandler - i.e., contending for multiple DPOY awards - you'd rather roll the dice with someone else at #12 or #15.

That displays a stunning degree of unfamiliarity with the kind of talent the #12 and #15 picks typically yield.

Tell you what, here are the last 20 players taken at those slots:

Dario Saric
Steven Adams
Jeremy Lamb
Alec Burks
Xavier Henry
Jason Thompson
Thad Young
Hilton Armstrong
Yaroslev Korolev
Robert Swift
Adreian Payne
Giannis A.
Moe Harkless
Kawhi Leonard
Larry Sanders
Austin Daye
Robin Lopez
Rodney Stuckey
Cedric Simmons
Antoine Wright

For you to believe that a sure Chandler clone is worse than these picks, you must believe that nearly all of them are better than Tyson Chandler.

So, stake your claim, and list the guys on that list that are definitively better than Chandler.

Thanks for ganging up on me (sarcasm)!  I'll embolden the ones who I believe are better than Chandler, if that's okay with you.  To me, guys like Steven Adams, Robin Lopez, and Larry Sanders are cut from the same cloth as Chandler (although Sanders at least had offensive talent) - they're all effort and hustle players who only, in the words of Tommy, "bang people," lol. Are guys like that helpful?  Of course, but you can't build around such players.  Your list also doesn't account for guys like Deandre Jordan and Hassan Whiteside, both of whom are better than Chandler, who were taken in the second round.  I'm sorry if I've upset you or something, but I've never been partial to such types of players.  I want guys with SKILL.  Go ahead, laugh and mock me for all I care.

[Eddie20]

His game is better suited for the NBA. Much more wide open game with a lot of pick and rolls where he could be the roll man on lobs to the basket.

I'm not questioning his defensive ability, but he still doesn't appear to have any offensive SKILL.  I don't count dunking as a skill, btw, especially for a dude of his size.  If the best he ever becomes is Tyson Chandler, I think I'll pass.

So you would pass on a rookie Tyson Chandler like player? I don't think you meant to write that. Probably a typo.

What is the offensive skillset that Drummond, Gobert, Jordan, etc. have? Cauley-Stein fits that mold.

No, that's not a typo.  Tyson Chandler-like players don't interest me at all, especially if they're not surrounded by accomplished guys, as would have been the case had Deandre Jordan been taken by Ainge in 2008.  All of those guys are dominant rebounders and shotblockers, sure, but, athleticism aside, what else do they bring to the game?  I'm not sure that Cauley-Stein is anywhere near those guys in terms of said categories, anyway.  He's going to have to add some muscle, as well, because he's not strong enough to guard post players right now, and that added weight will take away some of his overall speed and quickness.  He's been at Kentucky now for three years and I don't see any post moves or anything else offensively aside from dunking.  If you can show me a clip of him in the post, fine, but I haven't seen one yet.  Plus, he's already going to be 22 years old in August, and that's ancient by your standards.

So, what you're saying is that even if you could know that WCS will be as good as Tyson Chandler - i.e., contending for multiple DPOY awards - you'd rather roll the dice with someone else at #12 or #15.

That displays a stunning degree of unfamiliarity with the kind of talent the #12 and #15 picks typically yield.

Tell you what, here are the last 20 players taken at those slots:

Dario Saric
Steven Adams
Jeremy Lamb
Alec Burks
Xavier Henry
Jason Thompson
Thad Young
Hilton Armstrong
Yaroslev Korolev
Robert Swift
Adreian Payne
Giannis A.
Moe Harkless
Kawhi Leonard
Larry Sanders
Austin Daye
Robin Lopez
Rodney Stuckey
Cedric Simmons
Antoine Wright

For you to believe that a sure Chandler clone is worse than these picks, you must believe that nearly all of them are better than Tyson Chandler.

So, stake your claim, and list the guys on that list that are definitively better than Chandler.

I doubt he really understands what he's saying.

[Beat LA]

His game is better suited for the NBA. Much more wide open game with a lot of pick and rolls where he could be the roll man on lobs to the basket.

I'm not questioning his defensive ability, but he still doesn't appear to have any offensive SKILL.  I don't count dunking as a skill, btw, especially for a dude of his size.  If the best he ever becomes is Tyson Chandler, I think I'll pass.

So you would pass on a rookie Tyson Chandler like player? I don't think you meant to write that. Probably a typo.

What is the offensive skillset that Drummond, Gobert, Jordan, etc. have? Cauley-Stein fits that mold.

No, that's not a typo.  Tyson Chandler-like players don't interest me at all, especially if they're not surrounded by accomplished guys, like would have been the case had Deandre Jordan been taken by Ainge in 2008.  All of those guys are dominant rebounders and shotblockers, sure, but, athleticism aside, what else do they bring to the game?  I'm not sure that Cauley-Stein is anywhere near those guys in terms of said categories, anyway.  He's going to have to add some muscle, as well, because he's not strong enough to guard post players right now, and that added weight will take away some of his overall speed and quickness.  He's been at Kentucky now for three years and I don't see any post moves or anything else offensively aside from dunking.  If you can show me a clip of him in the post, fine, but I haven't seen one yet.  Plus, he's already going to be 22 years old in August, and that's ancient by your standards.

You might not have noticed, but the game has changed. You don't need a offensive post player to have success offensively. Does it hurt? No, obviously not. However, it's not crucial. The 5 best scoring teams in the NBA are Golden St, LAC, Dallas, Toronto, and Cleveland. How many back to basket centers do those teams have combined?

So by the numbers...

Clarkson is better than Smart
Rondo is the best PG in the NBA
LAL are better at drafting talent than the C's
You wouldn't want a Chandler like player


Did I miss any other one of your nuggets?

It has?



Ironically, two of the teams you listed have two of the best back-to-the basket centers in the league in Bogut and Valanciunas, so thanks for making my argument. 

Also, it's not just by the numbers.  Go watch any number of highlights of Jordan Clarkson and you'll see how he's better than Smart, AS OF RIGHT NOW.  The guy can, and does, get to the basket and score with both hands, and if he's fouled, he ACTUALLY MAKES HIS FREE THROWS.  Clarkson also has an automatic midrange game and pretty good 3-point shot, and he is a good passer, but what I like about him is that he plays within himself.  Can Smart be better down the road?  Well, I hope so, lol.

Additionally, imo, yes, I believe that Rondo is the best point guard in the league.  Am I not entitled to an opinion?  Let's see, what else did I miss?  Oh right, many teams are better at drafting than the Celtics are, imo, not just the lakers, and no, I wouldn't want a Chandler-like player.