Lebron is talented but he's not one of the greatest to play this game, he's not even in the discussion....he's fooled a lot of people into thinking that and that's all that matters. the ones who tell you how great he is.
Where would you rate him all-time? What's your definition of "one of the greatest"?
He's #3 all-time in scoring average, #28 all-time in assists per game, and #33 all-time in steals per game. He's #2 all-time in PER, if that matters. He's won two championships, played in five Finals, and has four MVPs.
I don't like the "King" and "Chosen One" stuff, but he's easily a top-15 player of all-time, isn't he? The case can be made for him being top-5, or even top-3.
top 5? no way.
Wilt, Russell, Robertson, Jordan, Bird, Magic, Kareem --> 7 right there I don't think anyone could seriously dispute as better players.
West, Olajuwon, Shaq, Duncan. -- > 4 more that'd be hard to say weren't better than Lebron as well.
After that, I think you could get into personal preference but that's 10 players I don't think he's better than.
Why is the Big O automatically better than Lebron? If you adjust for pace, Lebron's numbers are better, and Lebron has won more championships and MVPs.
If Lebron wins another title or two, I think the general consensus is going to be that he's overtaken Larry as the best SF of all-time, although I'll never agree with that.
"Why is the Big O automatically better than Lebron? If you adjust for pace, Lebron's numbers are better, and Lebron has won more championships and MVPs."
--> I wouldn't count championships to determine who's a better player --> that measure would put Robert Horry in the discussion. as for MVPs, look who Oscar had to compete with versus who Lebron has to compete with. Not saying Lebron isn't the best player of his generation, he is - which disgusts me personally, but I see the league as a more-watered-down version from the 80's and earlier.
I also see Lebron as having been annointed the league's savior since prior to him being drafted. this is a phenomenon that I had only seen previously with Shaq (and that had a lot to do with Jordan's initial retirement and the league needing a new face). he's gotten a lot of leeway from officials from the beginning that has helped him look better than he was initially. I freely admit to a bias against him having seen him continuously bowl over defenders with what should be charges instead of defensive fouls and seen him hack defenders only to get non-calls for supposedly clean strips.
for me, his 'greatness' will forever be tainted with this bias but even still I will readily admit he's far and away the best player of this generation. I just take that bias into account when comparing him to other greats that didn't receive as blatant a bias from the officials.
"If Lebron wins another title or two, I think the general consensus is going to be that he's overtaken Larry as the best SF of all-time, although I'll never agree with that."
that may come to pass but I would think that's all coming from people that never saw Larry in his prime or close to it. Larry was the embodiment of greatness (yes, more bias on my part having started following the NBA in Bird's rookie year) who didn't enjoy Lebron's immediate coddling by officials (or ever if Tommy and Johnny Most are to be believed and in fairness they weren't always wrong). Lebron has developed an outside shot which has put him over the top as the current best player in the game but he's not the scorer, passer, rebounder and competitor Larry was. If the day you speak of comes to pass, it will be a sad, sad day for the lovers of basketball.
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