Anyone else cringe watching Olynk play D?

[footey]

His free throw shooting has been horrible this year. 

What was his FT shooting percentage last year?

[Rondo9]

Why has Olynyk become the designated whipping boy of this team? 

Mike

He's not Giannis.

[GratefulCs]

His free throw shooting has been horrible this year. 

What was his FT shooting percentage last year?

81%

Someone else here mentioned that he looks like he's still not totally healthy. Makes sense

His free throw shooting should return







I hope

[Celtics18]

At what point was he ever passable on defense? Every game I've seen him in, the other team plays like he's not even there.

I don't want to call you an idiot, so I'll let the stats tell the story.

Gigi Datome    8    11.5    103.1    89.3    13.8    8.3    1.33    8.7    1.3    13.3    7.4    6.5    61.5    61.5    20.7    95.10    13.9
Jonas Jerebko    13    17.1    107.7    96.0    11.7    10.9    2.14    16.0    7.8    15.0    11.3    7.5    58.3    60.7    15.9    95.52    10.6
Phil Pressey    40    11.6    98.6    98.9    -0.2    29.3    2.93    32.7    1.7    11.5    6.6    11.2    42.5    46.4    17.3    98.48    9.3
Brandan Wright    8    10.7    99.2    99.2    0.0    14.5    1.60    22.4    8.8    13.3    11.0    14.0    57.1    57.1    13.9    98.66    12.1
Tayshaun Prince    9    22    107.1    100.4    6.7    14.3    4.50    21.5    3.6    13.4    8.6    4.8    60.2    61.6    15.2    94.80    12.9
Avery Bradley    62    31.5    99.8    101.5    -1.6    8.5    1.25    10.1    2.0    8.7    5.3    8.1    48.9    50.6    21.0    99.20    7.2
Brandon Bass    66    23.1    100.1    101.5    -1.4    9.4    1.25    10.8    7.6    15.3    11.4    8.6    50.0    54.4    20.4    97.83    11.0
Kelly Olynyk    48    23.3    105.0    102.0    3.0    11.2    1.08    13.9    7.0    17.7    12.2    12.9    53.0    55.3    20.3    98.98    8.9
Jae Crowder    42    23.1    104.4    102.2    2.2    9.5    2.31    13.6    5.0    15.6    10.2    5.9    48.9    51.5    17.1    97.52    9.8
Evan Turner    66    26.6    99.3    102.5    -3.2    28.3    2.10    29.4    2.2    17.9    9.9    14.0    43.5    47.1    19.4    98.31    10.2
Tyler Zeller    66    21    98.3    102.5    -4.2    10.2    1.38    12.4    9.6    19.5    14.6    9.0    54.5    59.3    19.5    98.62    12.5
Marcus Smart    52    26.3    103.0    102.8    0.2    17.8    2.36    26.3    3.5    10.9    7.1    11.2    45.1    48.2    15.6    97.66    6.6
Marcus Thornton    39    16.4    100.8    102.8    -2.0    9.1    1.55    8.9    3.1    9.7    6.3    5.7    50.2    53.1    23.3    98.24    10.6
Isaiah Thomas    10    27.6    108.9    103.2    5.7    35.1    1.80    20.2    1.4    9.3    5.1    11.2    49.3    58.3    33.2    96.97    15.3
Jared Sullinger    51    28.7    100.2    103.4    -3.3    13.9    1.76    13.5    10.2    20.8    15.5    7.7    48.5    51.2    23.5    97.84    12.5
Rajon Rondo    22    31.8    101.7    104.1    -2.4    45.8    3.16    44.9    4.0    21.8    13.0    14.2    42.5    42.2    17.8    100.84    13.1
Jeff Green    33    33.1    98.6    104.3    -5.7    7.8    0.95    8.2    2.1    12.3    7.2    8.7    48.3    53.9    23.7    100.08    9.5
Gerald Wallace    27    8.2    105.7    105.8    -0.1    3.4    0.46    12.9    5.8    15.0    10.6    28.0    37.0    42.0    8.2    97.08    3.7
James Young    29    10.4    103.6    106.6    -3.0    5.6    2.75    9.4    2.9    11.4    6.9    3.4    43.4    45.6    14.8    98.38    5.2
Jameer Nelson    6    20.1    101.9    107.3    -5.5    40.7    3.67    37.9    2.6    12.8    7.6    10.3    28.0    32.3    20.0    97.00    6.2
Shavlik Randolph    4    5.9    86.8    108.6    -21.8    7.7    1.00    7.8    16.7    40.0    25.6    7.8    30.0    32.2    21.4    96.88    7.6
Dwight Powell    5    1.8    97.5    135.7    -38.2    0.0    0.00    0.0    0.0    11.1    6.7    25.4    80.0    76.5    35.0    107.69    17.5

Well that didn't go well, let me sum it up this way, on defensive rating our team goes, Datome, Jerebko, Pressey, Wright, Prince, Bradley, Bass and then Olynyk for team leaders.  I know you think he is terrible but somehow, and this isn't over a small sample size like Datome and Jerebko, he is one of our best defenders.  Either that or he has been incredibly lucky this year and will probably win the lottery any day now.

Our team's net rating goes Datome, Jerebko, Prince, Thomas, and Olynyk for our leaders.  What do the four guys ahead of Olynyk have in common?  Small sample size.  We just play better offensively and yes, defensively with Olynyk out there.

TP for posting those numbers. 

Most of the folks who are claiming that Kelly is such a huge negative defensively are relying on their own eye test. 

There are others who see Kelly making positive contributions on both ends of the floor. 

The numbers back up the latter observations.

I haven't seen any attempt at concrete evidence that show how lousy Kelly is other than derisive, unfounded comments about his hair-do, his lack of toughness, and his lack of athleticism.

[Granath]

I really don't get the Olynyk hate.

He's not a star. He looks awkward out there at times. He's made the occasional bonehead play (which youngster hasn't?). He needs to improve his strength. He can look passive out there.

But the kid can play. He may be a slower individual defender, but somehow the team defense is improved when he's out there. He hustles. He sets great picks. He can score. He sometimes takes opposing players out of their games. And somehow - just somehow - when he's on the floor the team's plus/minus is positive.

His biggest sin seems to be that he's not Giannis. Well, 20/20 hindsight is easy and that's why retroactive opinions mean so little. So here's the deal. If you think Ainge should have drafted Greek Freak over KO a couple of years ago, please link to your pre-draft post that states that Giannis was the guy you wanted all along. If that's the case, link it and we'll talk. If you can't, then you have nothing to complain about.

[littleteapot]

At what point was he ever passable on defense? Every game I've seen him in, the other team plays like he's not even there.

I don't want to call you an idiot, so I'll let the stats tell the story.

Gigi Datome    8    11.5    103.1    89.3    13.8    8.3    1.33    8.7    1.3    13.3    7.4    6.5    61.5    61.5    20.7    95.10    13.9
Jonas Jerebko    13    17.1    107.7    96.0    11.7    10.9    2.14    16.0    7.8    15.0    11.3    7.5    58.3    60.7    15.9    95.52    10.6
Phil Pressey    40    11.6    98.6    98.9    -0.2    29.3    2.93    32.7    1.7    11.5    6.6    11.2    42.5    46.4    17.3    98.48    9.3
Brandan Wright    8    10.7    99.2    99.2    0.0    14.5    1.60    22.4    8.8    13.3    11.0    14.0    57.1    57.1    13.9    98.66    12.1
Tayshaun Prince    9    22    107.1    100.4    6.7    14.3    4.50    21.5    3.6    13.4    8.6    4.8    60.2    61.6    15.2    94.80    12.9
Avery Bradley    62    31.5    99.8    101.5    -1.6    8.5    1.25    10.1    2.0    8.7    5.3    8.1    48.9    50.6    21.0    99.20    7.2
Brandon Bass    66    23.1    100.1    101.5    -1.4    9.4    1.25    10.8    7.6    15.3    11.4    8.6    50.0    54.4    20.4    97.83    11.0
Kelly Olynyk    48    23.3    105.0    102.0    3.0    11.2    1.08    13.9    7.0    17.7    12.2    12.9    53.0    55.3    20.3    98.98    8.9
Jae Crowder    42    23.1    104.4    102.2    2.2    9.5    2.31    13.6    5.0    15.6    10.2    5.9    48.9    51.5    17.1    97.52    9.8
Evan Turner    66    26.6    99.3    102.5    -3.2    28.3    2.10    29.4    2.2    17.9    9.9    14.0    43.5    47.1    19.4    98.31    10.2
Tyler Zeller    66    21    98.3    102.5    -4.2    10.2    1.38    12.4    9.6    19.5    14.6    9.0    54.5    59.3    19.5    98.62    12.5
Marcus Smart    52    26.3    103.0    102.8    0.2    17.8    2.36    26.3    3.5    10.9    7.1    11.2    45.1    48.2    15.6    97.66    6.6
Marcus Thornton    39    16.4    100.8    102.8    -2.0    9.1    1.55    8.9    3.1    9.7    6.3    5.7    50.2    53.1    23.3    98.24    10.6
Isaiah Thomas    10    27.6    108.9    103.2    5.7    35.1    1.80    20.2    1.4    9.3    5.1    11.2    49.3    58.3    33.2    96.97    15.3
Jared Sullinger    51    28.7    100.2    103.4    -3.3    13.9    1.76    13.5    10.2    20.8    15.5    7.7    48.5    51.2    23.5    97.84    12.5
Rajon Rondo    22    31.8    101.7    104.1    -2.4    45.8    3.16    44.9    4.0    21.8    13.0    14.2    42.5    42.2    17.8    100.84    13.1
Jeff Green    33    33.1    98.6    104.3    -5.7    7.8    0.95    8.2    2.1    12.3    7.2    8.7    48.3    53.9    23.7    100.08    9.5
Gerald Wallace    27    8.2    105.7    105.8    -0.1    3.4    0.46    12.9    5.8    15.0    10.6    28.0    37.0    42.0    8.2    97.08    3.7
James Young    29    10.4    103.6    106.6    -3.0    5.6    2.75    9.4    2.9    11.4    6.9    3.4    43.4    45.6    14.8    98.38    5.2
Jameer Nelson    6    20.1    101.9    107.3    -5.5    40.7    3.67    37.9    2.6    12.8    7.6    10.3    28.0    32.3    20.0    97.00    6.2
Shavlik Randolph    4    5.9    86.8    108.6    -21.8    7.7    1.00    7.8    16.7    40.0    25.6    7.8    30.0    32.2    21.4    96.88    7.6
Dwight Powell    5    1.8    97.5    135.7    -38.2    0.0    0.00    0.0    0.0    11.1    6.7    25.4    80.0    76.5    35.0    107.69    17.5

Well that didn't go well, let me sum it up this way, on defensive rating our team goes, Datome, Jerebko, Pressey, Wright, Prince, Bradley, Bass and then Olynyk for team leaders.  I know you think he is terrible but somehow, and this isn't over a small sample size like Datome and Jerebko, he is one of our best defenders.  Either that or he has been incredibly lucky this year and will probably win the lottery any day now.

Our team's net rating goes Datome, Jerebko, Prince, Thomas, and Olynyk for our leaders.  What do the four guys ahead of Olynyk have in common?  Small sample size.  We just play better offensively and yes, defensively with Olynyk out there.

I'm not sure what those numbers are supposed to demonstrate due to the lack of labels.

I really don't like the on/off stats unless there's some adjustment to who you're playing with, but according to basketball reference, Olynyk's net rating this year is +1. Compare this to the other bigs that have played a lot of minutes for us:
Zeller: +14
Bass: +4
Sullinger: +3

[crimson_stallion]

At what point was he ever passable on defense? Every game I've seen him in, the other team plays like he's not even there.

I don't want to call you an idiot, so I'll let the stats tell the story.

Gigi Datome    8    11.5    103.1    89.3    13.8    8.3    1.33    8.7    1.3    13.3    7.4    6.5    61.5    61.5    20.7    95.10    13.9
Jonas Jerebko    13    17.1    107.7    96.0    11.7    10.9    2.14    16.0    7.8    15.0    11.3    7.5    58.3    60.7    15.9    95.52    10.6
Phil Pressey    40    11.6    98.6    98.9    -0.2    29.3    2.93    32.7    1.7    11.5    6.6    11.2    42.5    46.4    17.3    98.48    9.3
Brandan Wright    8    10.7    99.2    99.2    0.0    14.5    1.60    22.4    8.8    13.3    11.0    14.0    57.1    57.1    13.9    98.66    12.1
Tayshaun Prince    9    22    107.1    100.4    6.7    14.3    4.50    21.5    3.6    13.4    8.6    4.8    60.2    61.6    15.2    94.80    12.9
Avery Bradley    62    31.5    99.8    101.5    -1.6    8.5    1.25    10.1    2.0    8.7    5.3    8.1    48.9    50.6    21.0    99.20    7.2
Brandon Bass    66    23.1    100.1    101.5    -1.4    9.4    1.25    10.8    7.6    15.3    11.4    8.6    50.0    54.4    20.4    97.83    11.0
Kelly Olynyk    48    23.3    105.0    102.0    3.0    11.2    1.08    13.9    7.0    17.7    12.2    12.9    53.0    55.3    20.3    98.98    8.9
Jae Crowder    42    23.1    104.4    102.2    2.2    9.5    2.31    13.6    5.0    15.6    10.2    5.9    48.9    51.5    17.1    97.52    9.8
Evan Turner    66    26.6    99.3    102.5    -3.2    28.3    2.10    29.4    2.2    17.9    9.9    14.0    43.5    47.1    19.4    98.31    10.2
Tyler Zeller    66    21    98.3    102.5    -4.2    10.2    1.38    12.4    9.6    19.5    14.6    9.0    54.5    59.3    19.5    98.62    12.5
Marcus Smart    52    26.3    103.0    102.8    0.2    17.8    2.36    26.3    3.5    10.9    7.1    11.2    45.1    48.2    15.6    97.66    6.6
Marcus Thornton    39    16.4    100.8    102.8    -2.0    9.1    1.55    8.9    3.1    9.7    6.3    5.7    50.2    53.1    23.3    98.24    10.6
Isaiah Thomas    10    27.6    108.9    103.2    5.7    35.1    1.80    20.2    1.4    9.3    5.1    11.2    49.3    58.3    33.2    96.97    15.3
Jared Sullinger    51    28.7    100.2    103.4    -3.3    13.9    1.76    13.5    10.2    20.8    15.5    7.7    48.5    51.2    23.5    97.84    12.5
Rajon Rondo    22    31.8    101.7    104.1    -2.4    45.8    3.16    44.9    4.0    21.8    13.0    14.2    42.5    42.2    17.8    100.84    13.1
Jeff Green    33    33.1    98.6    104.3    -5.7    7.8    0.95    8.2    2.1    12.3    7.2    8.7    48.3    53.9    23.7    100.08    9.5
Gerald Wallace    27    8.2    105.7    105.8    -0.1    3.4    0.46    12.9    5.8    15.0    10.6    28.0    37.0    42.0    8.2    97.08    3.7
James Young    29    10.4    103.6    106.6    -3.0    5.6    2.75    9.4    2.9    11.4    6.9    3.4    43.4    45.6    14.8    98.38    5.2
Jameer Nelson    6    20.1    101.9    107.3    -5.5    40.7    3.67    37.9    2.6    12.8    7.6    10.3    28.0    32.3    20.0    97.00    6.2
Shavlik Randolph    4    5.9    86.8    108.6    -21.8    7.7    1.00    7.8    16.7    40.0    25.6    7.8    30.0    32.2    21.4    96.88    7.6
Dwight Powell    5    1.8    97.5    135.7    -38.2    0.0    0.00    0.0    0.0    11.1    6.7    25.4    80.0    76.5    35.0    107.69    17.5

Well that didn't go well, let me sum it up this way, on defensive rating our team goes, Datome, Jerebko, Pressey, Wright, Prince, Bradley, Bass and then Olynyk for team leaders.  I know you think he is terrible but somehow, and this isn't over a small sample size like Datome and Jerebko, he is one of our best defenders.  Either that or he has been incredibly lucky this year and will probably win the lottery any day now.

Our team's net rating goes Datome, Jerebko, Prince, Thomas, and Olynyk for our leaders.  What do the four guys ahead of Olynyk have in common?  Small sample size.  We just play better offensively and yes, defensively with Olynyk out there.

I'm not sure what those numbers are supposed to demonstrate due to the lack of labels.

I really don't like the on/off stats unless there's some adjustment to who you're playing with, but according to basketball reference, Olynyk's net rating this year is +1. Compare this to the other bigs that have played a lot of minutes for us:
Zeller: +14
Bass: +4
Sullinger: +3

You do realise that a net rating of +1 is actually good, yes?

[littleteapot]

You do realise that a net rating of +1 is actually good, yes?

No, it's average.

And all our bigs have positive ratings because Stevens was trying to go small without the personnel to do it early in the year, so any player who was on the team during that time is going to have a skewed rating - bigs will rate too highly and guards will rate too low.

[GratefulCs]

I really don't get the Olynyk hate.

He's not a star. He looks awkward out there at times. He's made the occasional bonehead play (which youngster hasn't?). He needs to improve his strength. He can look passive out there.

But the kid can play. He may be a slower individual defender, but somehow the team defense is improved when he's out there. He hustles. He sets great picks. He can score. He sometimes takes opposing players out of their games. And somehow - just somehow - when he's on the floor the team's plus/minus is positive.

His biggest sin seems to be that he's not Giannis. Well, 20/20 hindsight is easy and that's why retroactive opinions mean so little. So here's the deal. If you think Ainge should have drafted Greek Freak over KO a couple of years ago, please link to your pre-draft post that states that Giannis was the guy you wanted all along. If that's the case, link it and we'll talk. If you can't, then you have nothing to complain about.

This multiplied by one hundred

TP

[slamtheking]

I really don't get the Olynyk hate.

He's not a star. He looks awkward out there at times. He's made the occasional bonehead play (which youngster hasn't?). He needs to improve his strength. He can look passive out there.

But the kid can play. He may be a slower individual defender, but somehow the team defense is improved when he's out there. He hustles. He sets great picks. He can score. He sometimes takes opposing players out of their games. And somehow - just somehow - when he's on the floor the team's plus/minus is positive.

His biggest sin seems to be that he's not Giannis. Well, 20/20 hindsight is easy and that's why retroactive opinions mean so little. So here's the deal. If you think Ainge should have drafted Greek Freak over KO a couple of years ago, please link to your pre-draft post that states that Giannis was the guy you wanted all along. If that's the case, link it and we'll talk. If you can't, then you have nothing to complain about.

This multiplied by one hundred

TP

I think some of the KO bashing is due to sour grapes over Giannis (which I still don't get - the kid is an athlete but he's not showing more than flashes still.  he's no superstar or for that matter a consistant starter yet) but the part I think drives a number of people batty about KO is that he's so passive on the floor.  Too tentative on offense and he gets pushed around on the court under the boards.   

Personally, I wanted Dieng in that draft  and would gladly do a straight up swap of KO for Dieng right now but would be satisfied with KO if he just went on the offensive when he comes into the game.  when he's aggressive on offense and stops hesitating/second-guessing with passing or shooting he's so much more effective.  he's got the skills to take any other big out on the perimeter and either shoot over them or drive by them.  could be so much more effective than he is right now.

[Celtics4ever]

I am just calling the guy what he is an average to below average athlete.   That is not bashing, his vertical and test scores indicate that.   

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2013/5/19/4343934/nba-draft-2013-official-combine-measurements-results-comparisons-bigs

I think he can play on some level and I am willing to cut him a bigger pass because he tries something I can't always say for our stress fracture guy.  His basketball IQ is high, so he can anticipate moves well and compensate for his limitations.

Despite being seven foot tall he lacks length but he has gifts in other areas.

[rollie mass]

ko scored 20 and missed his free throws-not bad for coming back after missing 18games and being a sophomore in a year of 30 roster changes-he is still not 100%-watch that game in canada and compare-

[Yenohb]

I was not brought here for Defense.

-Kelly Olynyk

[Celtics4ever]

I was not brought here for Defense.

-Kelly Olynyk

And yet half of a game is defense...

[Snakehead]

I was not brought here for Defense.

-Kelly Olynyk

And yet half of a game is defense...

And we have multiple players who can play defense but don't have his offensive skill set.

Players don't all need to be complete to fit into a team.  His defense is fine.