What would a team have to do in a game?

[celticsclay]

I posted this last night, but was wondering what a team would have to do within a game during the final stretch of the NBA season to get penalized. Last night the Lakers were playing quite well and were in a really good position to win the game up 90-84 with 6:35 left in the game. Due to turnovers the Lakers didn't have another shot hit the rim for the next 3 minutes and would score only 1 more point in the game until a meaningless layup at the buzzer when the game had been decided losing 100-93. I realize teams blow games like this all the time (16-3 run), especially really bad ones like the Lakers, but it also didn't pass the eye test. The Celtics had a huge run go against them in the final minutes versus the Magic but were clearly still trying intentionally fouling down 8 with 25 seconds left by contrast.

I am not suggesting this effort in and of itself is something that can be punished, but I am wondering what a team would have to do to get penalized for tanking within a game. If the lakers or other teams are routinely just folding up shop midway through the 4th would the NBA ever say anything?

[D.o.s.]

It would have to be worse than the 2012 Warriors or the Mark Madsen three pointer game.

On the other hand, this exact scenario is what helped institute the draft lottery in the first place, so you'd need a team to play like the 1983 Houston Rockets, I suppose.

[celticsclay]

It would have to be worse than the 2012 Warriors or the Mark Madsen three pointer game.

On the other hand, this exact scenario is what helped institute the draft lottery in the first place, so you'd need a team to play like the 1983 Houston Rockets, I suppose.

I don't have any proof of this, but I think if the Mark Madsen 3 pointer game happened in today's 24 news cycle period and under Silver I think the team would have been pretty severely penalized.

Edit: Looked up the 2012 warriors, while that is definitely blatant tanking (trading for injured players and shutting down your stars) it seems harder to enforce than in game stuff (you would need to have an independent doctor prove the player wasn't really injured at all). So we can keep that kind of stuff separate for this debate

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

I tend to agree the Madsen game would provoke a response now. The Lakers are the team I could see really pushing the limits this year.

[Quetzalcoatl]

I love the NBA, but this game in particular:

1.) gave a team a huge incentive to lose and that team, although winning convincingly through the entire game, totally gave the game away at the end under dubious circumstances

2.) had a 7.5 line Dallas money line and ended up at as a 7 point Dallas win, meaning the Lakers lost even though they were winning but still covered

[celticsclay]

I love the NBA, but this game in particular:

1.) gave a team a huge incentive to lose and that team, although winning convincingly through the entire game, totally gave the game away at the end under dubious circumstances

2.) had a 7.5 line Dallas money line and ended up at as a 7 point Dallas win, meaning the Lakers lost even though they were winning but still covered

So you lost on the meaningless layup at the buzzer on the first field goal in 6 minutes for the lakers?

[Quetzalcoatl]

I love the NBA, but this game in particular:

1.) gave a team a huge incentive to lose and that team, although winning convincingly through the entire game, totally gave the game away at the end under dubious circumstances

2.) had a 7.5 line Dallas money line and ended up at as a 7 point Dallas win, meaning the Lakers lost even though they were winning but still covered

So you lost on the meaningless layup at the buzzer on the first field goal in 6 minutes for the lakers?

I don't gamble, but when I was looking at different threads about this game, it was all anybody was talking about

[D.o.s.]

What is Apophenia, Trebek?

[tazzmaniac]

I posted this last night, but was wondering what a team would have to do within a game during the final stretch of the NBA season to get penalized. Last night the Lakers were playing quite well and were in a really good position to win the game up 90-84 with 6:35 left in the game. Due to turnovers the Lakers didn't have another shot hit the rim for the next 3 minutes and would score only 1 more point in the game until a meaningless layup at the buzzer when the game had been decided losing 100-93. I realize teams blow games like this all the time (16-3 run), especially really bad ones like the Lakers, but it also didn't pass the eye test. The Celtics had a huge run go against them in the final minutes versus the Magic but were clearly still trying intentionally fouling down 8 with 25 seconds left by contrast.

I am not suggesting this effort in and of itself is something that can be punished, but I am wondering what a team would have to do to get penalized for tanking within a game. If the lakers or other teams are routinely just folding up shop midway through the 4th would the NBA ever say anything?

I just watched the 4th quarter and didn't see any tanking moves.  The Lakers are a bad, young team without any go to players.  The only reason the Lakers were in the lead was because the Mavs were terrible on the defensive boards and played poor defense.  Carlisle won the game by benching Dirk in the 4th and playing Aminu.  Aminu's intensity on defense was picked up by the other Mavs and the young Lakers couldn't handle it.  I don't think the Lakers got a single offensive rebound during that time. 

[celticsclay]

I posted this last night, but was wondering what a team would have to do within a game during the final stretch of the NBA season to get penalized. Last night the Lakers were playing quite well and were in a really good position to win the game up 90-84 with 6:35 left in the game. Due to turnovers the Lakers didn't have another shot hit the rim for the next 3 minutes and would score only 1 more point in the game until a meaningless layup at the buzzer when the game had been decided losing 100-93. I realize teams blow games like this all the time (16-3 run), especially really bad ones like the Lakers, but it also didn't pass the eye test. The Celtics had a huge run go against them in the final minutes versus the Magic but were clearly still trying intentionally fouling down 8 with 25 seconds left by contrast.

I am not suggesting this effort in and of itself is something that can be punished, but I am wondering what a team would have to do to get penalized for tanking within a game. If the lakers or other teams are routinely just folding up shop midway through the 4th would the NBA ever say anything?

I just watched the 4th quarter and didn't see any tanking moves.  The Lakers are a bad, young team without any go to players.  The only reason the Lakers were in the lead was because the Mavs were terrible on the defensive boards and played poor defense.  Carlisle won the game by benching Dirk in the 4th and playing Aminu.  Aminu's intensity on defense was picked up by the other Mavs and the young Lakers couldn't handle it.  I don't think the Lakers got a single offensive rebound during that time.

I don't think the Lakers had their best players on the court at the end of the game playing guys like Clarkson, Ellington and Johnson over some of their veterans like Lin and Boozer that had played pretty well (although boozer played awful in the 4th. I also would have liked to see them do some of the things that the Celtics did like doing at least one intentional foul in the last minute to try and get back in the game. You saw the Celtics fouling down 8 with like 30 seconds left. That certainly is not something you can punish the lakers for, but you can't watch that and say they were trying their hardest to win what was a very winnable game.

[tazzmaniac]

I posted this last night, but was wondering what a team would have to do within a game during the final stretch of the NBA season to get penalized. Last night the Lakers were playing quite well and were in a really good position to win the game up 90-84 with 6:35 left in the game. Due to turnovers the Lakers didn't have another shot hit the rim for the next 3 minutes and would score only 1 more point in the game until a meaningless layup at the buzzer when the game had been decided losing 100-93. I realize teams blow games like this all the time (16-3 run), especially really bad ones like the Lakers, but it also didn't pass the eye test. The Celtics had a huge run go against them in the final minutes versus the Magic but were clearly still trying intentionally fouling down 8 with 25 seconds left by contrast.

I am not suggesting this effort in and of itself is something that can be punished, but I am wondering what a team would have to do to get penalized for tanking within a game. If the lakers or other teams are routinely just folding up shop midway through the 4th would the NBA ever say anything?

I just watched the 4th quarter and didn't see any tanking moves.  The Lakers are a bad, young team without any go to players.  The only reason the Lakers were in the lead was because the Mavs were terrible on the defensive boards and played poor defense.  Carlisle won the game by benching Dirk in the 4th and playing Aminu.  Aminu's intensity on defense was picked up by the other Mavs and the young Lakers couldn't handle it.  I don't think the Lakers got a single offensive rebound during that time.

I don't think the Lakers had their best players on the court at the end of the game playing guys like Clarkson, Ellington and Johnson over some of their veterans like Lin and Boozer that had played pretty well (although boozer played awful in the 4th. I also would have liked to see them do some of the things that the Celtics did like doing at least one intentional foul in the last minute to try and get back in the game. You saw the Celtics fouling down 8 with like 30 seconds left. That certainly is not something you can punish the lakers for, but you can't watch that and say they were trying their hardest to win what was a very winnable game.

Calling Lin and Boozer their best players shows how bad the Lakers are.  However, I think Clarkson is already playing better than Lin and he played well during the game.  Lin and Boozer were playing in the 4th.  Lin went out when Rondo drew a charge and Lin's nose bled.  Once Dirk was benched, Boozer didn't do much good.  When the Mavs got ahead, the Lakers were done.  The Lakers were down 9 with less than a minute to go.  I've seen plenty of teams not foul in that situation.  To expect, the Lakers to play as hard as the Celtics at this point in the season is unrealistic.   

[celticsclay]

I posted this last night, but was wondering what a team would have to do within a game during the final stretch of the NBA season to get penalized. Last night the Lakers were playing quite well and were in a really good position to win the game up 90-84 with 6:35 left in the game. Due to turnovers the Lakers didn't have another shot hit the rim for the next 3 minutes and would score only 1 more point in the game until a meaningless layup at the buzzer when the game had been decided losing 100-93. I realize teams blow games like this all the time (16-3 run), especially really bad ones like the Lakers, but it also didn't pass the eye test. The Celtics had a huge run go against them in the final minutes versus the Magic but were clearly still trying intentionally fouling down 8 with 25 seconds left by contrast.

I am not suggesting this effort in and of itself is something that can be punished, but I am wondering what a team would have to do to get penalized for tanking within a game. If the lakers or other teams are routinely just folding up shop midway through the 4th would the NBA ever say anything?

I just watched the 4th quarter and didn't see any tanking moves.  The Lakers are a bad, young team without any go to players.  The only reason the Lakers were in the lead was because the Mavs were terrible on the defensive boards and played poor defense.  Carlisle won the game by benching Dirk in the 4th and playing Aminu.  Aminu's intensity on defense was picked up by the other Mavs and the young Lakers couldn't handle it.  I don't think the Lakers got a single offensive rebound during that time.

I don't think the Lakers had their best players on the court at the end of the game playing guys like Clarkson, Ellington and Johnson over some of their veterans like Lin and Boozer that had played pretty well (although boozer played awful in the 4th. I also would have liked to see them do some of the things that the Celtics did like doing at least one intentional foul in the last minute to try and get back in the game. You saw the Celtics fouling down 8 with like 30 seconds left. That certainly is not something you can punish the lakers for, but you can't watch that and say they were trying their hardest to win what was a very winnable game.

Calling Lin and Boozer their best players shows how bad the Lakers are.  However, I think Clarkson is already playing better than Lin and he played well during the game.  Lin and Boozer were playing in the 4th.  Lin went out when Rondo drew a charge and Lin's nose bled.  Once Dirk was benched, Boozer didn't do much good.  When the Mavs got ahead, the Lakers were done.  The Lakers were down 9 with less than a minute to go.  I've seen plenty of teams not foul in that situation.  To expect, the Lakers to play as hard as the Celtics at this point in the season is unrealistic.

so you are arguing the lakers are not playing as hard as the Celtics, but also aren't tanking. We just arguing for the sake of arguing?

[tazzmaniac]

I posted this last night, but was wondering what a team would have to do within a game during the final stretch of the NBA season to get penalized. Last night the Lakers were playing quite well and were in a really good position to win the game up 90-84 with 6:35 left in the game. Due to turnovers the Lakers didn't have another shot hit the rim for the next 3 minutes and would score only 1 more point in the game until a meaningless layup at the buzzer when the game had been decided losing 100-93. I realize teams blow games like this all the time (16-3 run), especially really bad ones like the Lakers, but it also didn't pass the eye test. The Celtics had a huge run go against them in the final minutes versus the Magic but were clearly still trying intentionally fouling down 8 with 25 seconds left by contrast.

I am not suggesting this effort in and of itself is something that can be punished, but I am wondering what a team would have to do to get penalized for tanking within a game. If the lakers or other teams are routinely just folding up shop midway through the 4th would the NBA ever say anything?

I just watched the 4th quarter and didn't see any tanking moves.  The Lakers are a bad, young team without any go to players.  The only reason the Lakers were in the lead was because the Mavs were terrible on the defensive boards and played poor defense.  Carlisle won the game by benching Dirk in the 4th and playing Aminu.  Aminu's intensity on defense was picked up by the other Mavs and the young Lakers couldn't handle it.  I don't think the Lakers got a single offensive rebound during that time.

I don't think the Lakers had their best players on the court at the end of the game playing guys like Clarkson, Ellington and Johnson over some of their veterans like Lin and Boozer that had played pretty well (although boozer played awful in the 4th. I also would have liked to see them do some of the things that the Celtics did like doing at least one intentional foul in the last minute to try and get back in the game. You saw the Celtics fouling down 8 with like 30 seconds left. That certainly is not something you can punish the lakers for, but you can't watch that and say they were trying their hardest to win what was a very winnable game.

Calling Lin and Boozer their best players shows how bad the Lakers are.  However, I think Clarkson is already playing better than Lin and he played well during the game.  Lin and Boozer were playing in the 4th.  Lin went out when Rondo drew a charge and Lin's nose bled.  Once Dirk was benched, Boozer didn't do much good.  When the Mavs got ahead, the Lakers were done.  The Lakers were down 9 with less than a minute to go.  I've seen plenty of teams not foul in that situation.  To expect, the Lakers to play as hard as the Celtics at this point in the season is unrealistic.

so you are arguing the lakers are not playing as hard as the Celtics, but also aren't tanking. We just arguing for the sake of arguing?

That last comment was meant to refer to the end of the game situation.  The Celtics are playing for a playoff spot so they naturally played hard at the end even though they were down by 8.  The Lakers are just playing the season out.  They played hard during the game. However once they blew the lead and the deficit started to grow, you could see the fight leave them.  I saw nothing in the Lakers 4th quarter performance that would raise the issue of penalizing a team.