Will Celtics pursue Kawhi Leonard and Cousins this offseason?

[Celtics#18]

I've heard that the Celtics want to sign Kawhi Leonard to a max contract this off season. I also heard that the celtics really want to trade for Demarcus Cousins this off season with Brandon Bass and a 2016 draft pick as possible trade pieces. Can anyone confirm the validity of these rumors?

[e4e5sesame]

Just to save you some time in the future, no one here can confirm the validity of any Celtics trade or free agent signing rumors.

[e4e5sesame]

Welcome to the forums, by the way.

[Celtics#18]

Sorry not confirm the validity but is it likely.

[chambers]

Sorry not confirm the validity but is it likely.

Welcome to Celticsblog.

Kwahi Leonard was rumored to be one of the Celtics free agent targets this offseason- but that was just a rumor with only one source being sheridanhoops or basketball insiders or something like that.

The rumored players were Jimmy Butler, DeAndre Jordan, Marc Gasol, Kwahi Leonard as the main players in the story/rumor.

As far as Cousins, the media loves to keep fans foaming at the mouth regarding trades between the Kings and the Celtics for Cousins. The reality is though that after hiring George Karl he's 99% likely not going anywhere for at least another season.

So, the answer to your Cousins question is that Celtics will always enquire about Cousins as most NBA teams would but it's VERY unlikely they trade for him. Brandon Bass is a free agent this offseason so we can't trade him unless we sign him to a new deal- which is also unlikely because he'll want to play for a contender.

[kozlodoev]

I'm not sure why everyone is so high on Leonard. He's either the next Aaron Afflalo, or the next Jimmy Buttler. Except we can't really know yet.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I'm not sure why everyone is so high on Leonard. He's either the next Aaron Afflalo, or the next Jimmy Buttler. Except we can't really know yet.

Neither of those comparisons gives me much confidence at this point.

[Al91]

I'm not sure why everyone is so high on Leonard. He's either the next Aaron Afflalo, or the next Jimmy Buttler. Except we can't really know yet.

Neither of those comparisons gives me much confidence at this point.

I think nearly every NBA team would like to have a healthy Jimmy Butler clone on their team right now.

[GratefulCs]

I just don't see the spurs letting kiwi go. Unless they get something good back in a sign and trade


I'm praying for cousins at next years trade deadline

[BudweiserCeltic]

I'm not sure why everyone is so high on Leonard. He's either the next Aaron Afflalo, or the next Jimmy Buttler. Except we can't really know yet.

Neither of those comparisons gives me much confidence at this point.

I think nearly every NBA team would like to have a healthy Jimmy Butler clone on their team right now.

He's having a good season, that's about it. Are you willing to roll the dice on a 4-5 year MAX contract on him just because he's having a very good season?

That's usually how mistakes are made.

[mahcus smaht]

I'm not sure why everyone is so high on Leonard. He's either the next Aaron Afflalo, or the next Jimmy Buttler. Except we can't really know yet.

Him and Butler are the same age. Butler scores better, and Leonard defends and rebounds slightly better. Leonard has also won a finals MVP award. Jimmy Butler is less proven than Leonard and Leonard is already better than Aaron Afflalo ever was and he is 23.

I personally would rather have Butler for his scoring, but he is getting a max too.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/finals_mvp.htmlAaron Afflalo's dont win Finals MVP
 

[mahcus smaht]

I'm not sure why everyone is so high on Leonard. He's either the next Aaron Afflalo, or the next Jimmy Buttler. Except we can't really know yet.

Neither of those comparisons gives me much confidence at this point.

I think nearly every NBA team would like to have a healthy Jimmy Butler clone on their team right now.

He's having a good season, that's about it. Are you willing to roll the dice on a 4-5 year MAX contract on him just because he's having a very good season?

That's usually how mistakes are made.

Who would you like to sign to a max?

Proven elite players come available rarely, keep in mind a max for butler is only like 15 million the first year. And yes I would like to sign an elite defensive wing with great athleticism who has proven he can score 20 ppg who has improved his scoring by 6 points or more every year and who is 23 years old. That would seem to fit the criteria for me.

[saltlover]

I'm not sure why everyone is so high on Leonard. He's either the next Aaron Afflalo, or the next Jimmy Buttler. Except we can't really know yet.

Neither of those comparisons gives me much confidence at this point.

I think nearly every NBA team would like to have a healthy Jimmy Butler clone on their team right now.

He's having a good season, that's about it. Are you willing to roll the dice on a 4-5 year MAX contract on him just because he's having a very good season?

That's usually how mistakes are made.

Because this needs to be mentioned every time someone argues against a MAX contract, especially when capitalized:

1) Not all max contracts are equal.  Butler will be eligible for a smaller max contract than LaMarcus Aldridge, for example (about 16% less in year 1).

2) If the celtics somehow signed Butler, he'd be paid approximately 18.5% of the cap in year 2 of his contract, which in 2014-2015 cap dollars would be the equivalent of making $11.7 million under the current cap.  A player making $11.7 million would be the 50th highest paid player in the NBA.  It's pretty unlikely that paying Butler that amount will make him an albatross that breaks your team.  Of course, because of this fact it's all moot, as the Bulls can match any offer, and will do so, especially if it's a 4-year contract.

[obnoxiousmime]

Why would any of these teams not re-sign their star free agents? Even the teams that are over the cap would be able to clear space by unloading some players, and everyone knows the cap will rise in another year. They can either take the one year hit or trade the lesser guys (David Lee, Taj Gibson) they don't need.

So the answer is yes, the Celtics will pursue a lot of free agents. They won't have an easy job convincing them to leave however, even at the maximum possible offer. It's not like the Celtics are loaded with all stars ready to compete for a title. Last time I checked we still had a losing record and weren't even in the playoffs in a crappy East.

The other thing is, a lot of the better free agents may choose the one-year extension path in the hopes for big bucks in 2016. If that is the case, it would just be easier for them to re-sign with their current team and delay free agency a year. That doesn't help the Celtics' chances either.

Realistically the targets the Celtics could pursue are Wesley Matthews, Khris Middleton, DeMarre Carroll, KJ McDaniels, these types. These are the level of player the Celtics could overpay and make it tough for the incumbent team to match. There are some big men like Jefferson, Asik, Koufos, and Robin Lopez that could also be had with an overpay but they are in their late 20s/early 30s. Is that really the right age player for this team? I don't think so.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I'm not sure why everyone is so high on Leonard. He's either the next Aaron Afflalo, or the next Jimmy Buttler. Except we can't really know yet.

Neither of those comparisons gives me much confidence at this point.

I think nearly every NBA team would like to have a healthy Jimmy Butler clone on their team right now.

He's having a good season, that's about it. Are you willing to roll the dice on a 4-5 year MAX contract on him just because he's having a very good season?

That's usually how mistakes are made.

Because this needs to be mentioned every time someone argues against a MAX contract, especially when capitalized:

1) Not all max contracts are equal.  Butler will be eligible for a smaller max contract than LaMarcus Aldridge, for example (about 16% less in year 1).

2) If the celtics somehow signed Butler, he'd be paid approximately 18.5% of the cap in year 2 of his contract, which in 2014-2015 cap dollars would be the equivalent of making $11.7 million under the current cap.  A player making $11.7 million would be the 50th highest paid player in the NBA.  It's pretty unlikely that paying Butler that amount will make him an albatross that breaks your team.  Of course, because of this fact it's all moot, as the Bulls can match any offer, and will do so, especially if it's a 4-year contract.

And 3) I'm well aware of what a MAX contract entails.

Though I think your figures are a bit understated. For example, you take a Gordon Hayward on his year 3, and unless you're using different figures than the projected cap for 2017, he would be making about 20% of the cap.

Butler's contract should be more expensive than that I would project with 2015 projected numbers.

That said, this has nothing to do about paying the MAX or not. I use MAX and MIN in capital letters just because, not to accentuate it.

The main point here is if one is willing to invest on a player, heavily, reducing buying power as it is, on a player that has a single season of actual great play to go for it.

It's more of evaluating if this is a player that is projected to continue to play this well beyond this year or not. I'm personally not ready to give that contract without much thought and evaluation behind it. If at the end of the day you do feel this season is not fool's gold, then heck, go for it.

I'm not sure if Butler is that player. I rather keep more options open, particularly when you consider that the abundance of 1st round picks will be eating up our salary cap quicker than one might think in coming years. There's a huge consolidation process that needs to happen.

But as you mention, Butler if he doesn't live up to it, it's not a albatross that would break our team. That doesn't excuse throwing money away.

In the end the question always will be for me... is this a one-year wonder player?