Author Topic: The Problems with Brad Stevens  (Read 11483 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

The Problems with Brad Stevens
« on: February 23, 2015, 01:20:10 PM »

Offline Celts_Fan

  • Chris Boucher
  • Posts: 10
  • Tommy Points: 6
It has been almost two seasons now, and like all of Celtic nation I have watched the college coach turned pro attempt to lead the Celtics back to respectability and winning ways. And while Stevens certainly hasn’t had a great cast surrounding him, it is my opinion that he has failed, and continues to fail nightly in coaching the Celtics. Further, I do not think he is the right coach for the C’s, in their rebuilding project. Of all of Ainge’s moves in the rebuilding effort, hiring Stevens, by far, is his worst.
Please allow me to elaborate.
I have two major issues with Stevens, (and numerous other small issues that I won’t get into, as most of them are nit picking). The first issue is his rotations.
In short, they make little to no sense. I don’t know, (and I doubt Stevens knows either), if he’s tanking or playing to make the playoffs. His rotations are at times mindboggling, replacing key rebounders and scorers with players cold off the bench in critical situations where runs are either getting us back in games, or taking us out of games. How many times have we seen opposing teams guards scoring at will, while Stevens leaves Bradley, Smart and Wallace on the bench? How many times have we seen the Celtics struggling to score points while Marcus Thorton, Avery Bradley, Jeff Green and Olynyk sat on the bench wondering why they were not in the game?
Stevens seems to almost forget he has players on his bench, (James Young, Gerald Wallace, and even Brandon Bass), then uses them in situations where it’s difficult to contribute cold off the bench. I can only imagine the psyche of James Young, not used for the first half of the season, now a regular in the rotation – for now. Kelly Olynyk, whose starting job it was to lose, apparently lost it, and Stevens has decided he can do nothing to ever earn it back. Phil Pressey is no longer even a consideration despite providing useful, if not stellar minutes, in the past, particularly last season.
I also feel that Stevens’ offensive schemes, mainly relying on the three point shot so heavily, is a poor strategy, and reminds me of Pitino’s strategy that; “You only need to hit 1/3rd of your shots if you take 3 point field goals, versus 2 point shots.” Stevens, like Pitino, is in love with the 3 point shot, and lets players who really aren’t good 3 point shooters, (Jared Sullinger comes to mind), shoot them with regularity, and shoot the Celtics out of games.
The second major issue I have is with Stevens’ complete lack of emotion on the court. When Celtics legend Bill Russell first took the court for the C’s he vividly remembers a call going against him. When Red Auerbach rose up and stormed towards the official, defending his player, Russell felt as though this was a man that would have his back, and in turn he could play to the best of his ability, being backed up by his coach, creating a sense of team and unity.
Since then, this is one aspect in coaching I have barely noticed, as standing by, and for your players is an expected norm in NBA basketball.
Apparently not for Stevens.
Most of the time the “coach” looks lost, bored, or confused. And while his assistant coaches have picked up technical fouls in defense of their players, Stevens has seen fit to take a back seat, and done nothing to support his men. I wonder how he can expect his players to want to fight and win on a sub .500 team, when their coach won’t say an unkind word in their defense. More to the point, last night when Isaiah Thomas was ejected against the Lakers, the second technical foul an unnecessary, bad call, Stevens gives Joe Resnick of the Associated Press the following comment; “''We have to do a better job of handling our emotions.'' Really Brad? Way to support your players. Isaiah was upset over a bad call and slammed the ball in frustration; the second technical foul was completely unwarranted. And how do you support your newest player? Simply put, you don’t. Way to support your men, “coach”.
In a game against Chicago late in October this season, it is my opinion that Stevens’ lack of support cost the Celtics a win. In a play that took place right in front of Stevens, Evan Turner was obviously fouled. Anybody with eyes could see the hard contact. Stevens, who had a better view than most, saw it, yet only muttered a couple of words to the official. In the end that lack of call prevented from the Celtics from winning a tight game. It was just one game of many where Stevens never working the officials or standing for his players chiefly aided in costing us the game.
It’s fortunate that the Celtics players don’t act or adopt Stevens persona, can you imagine 12 catatonic players who just stare vacantly while chewing a fingernail when a call doesn’t go their way.
With no offense meant to the man personally, Brad Stevens was a good college coach; he should go back to being one. He reminds me more of Rick Pitino than I’d like to admit.

Re: The Problems with Brad Stevens
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2015, 01:26:59 PM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30863
  • Tommy Points: 1330
Actual spaces between your paragraphs make a post a lot easier to read.

Beyond that I don't love Stevens rotations either, but he's getting good results with our talent. His reliance on the 3-ball isn't in anyway out of the ordinary for the league. Nor do the C's have a dominant penetrating wing or post that would dictate a different strategy. I'd rather have Sullinger play more down low, but in team terms he's the only guy I'd quibble with.

I don't mind his "lack" of emotion as emotional leaders will cost teams games too. Its just different styles of coaching and leadership for different guys. Stevens has kept the team competing throughout these two years. Which is a lot more than many first time coaches in bad situations have.

Re: The Problems with Brad Stevens
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2015, 01:34:30 PM »

Offline Evantime34

  • NCE
  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11942
  • Tommy Points: 764
  • Eagerly Awaiting the Next Fantasy Draft
The problems with Brad Stevens
1. He doesn't know how to work the refs for calls
2. He doesn't have better players

Stevens has gotten all his players to give maximum effort and overachieve despite not having two guys who can consistently create their own shot healthy the entire season.

To me it's a wonder this team scores as much as they do give that before they traded for Thomas they didn't have a single player who could regularly get into the paint. People complain about Bradley shooting long two's coming off a screen and shooting so many 3's but it seems to me that those are the best shots we can get with who is on the team.

He has devised a clever scheme that covers up the fact that if teams are able to use the pick and roll it's pretty much an automatic 2 points for the opponent.

IMO Stevens is a great coach in the making, he isn't perfect, but a lot of his deficiences will be eliminated once he has better players to run his system (i.e. a rim protector and someone who can create off the bounce)
DKC:  Rockets
CB Draft: Memphis Grizz
Players: Klay Thompson, Jabari Parker, Aaron Gordon
Next 3 picks: 4.14, 4.15, 4.19

Re: The Problems with Brad Stevens
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2015, 01:35:56 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6849
  • Tommy Points: 813
You said a lot of things that could be contested, but I am only going to make a few points.
1. You complained about his rotations, but there have been a lot of trades this year, and Stevens is good and building repore between players, but you can only do so much when players are constantly getting traded or when some players don't want to be there at all.
2. You complained about the rotations, but maybe Stevens is trying to train form a more well-rounded team (something his college teams were known for). Maybe he wants other players to be better defenders, or better scorers. Maybe he is giving them a chance to develop on the court. As a matter of fact, Bradley has developed into a better offensive player because of the chances and confidence Stevens offers. Sully has learned to make more defensive plays. Smart is currently learning figure out ways to score the ball even when he is cold. You look at that as a weakness, but I look at that like great coaching, instilling confidence in his players, and giving them opportunities to flourish and perform. He has be willing to let them fail if he wants them to succeed, especially as this young team is developing.
3. You complained that he doesn't 'work the refs,' but to every coach works the refs, and I love the fact that he doesn't. It shows composure and respect. After time, the refs might value that and his few words directed towards them might carry more weight, rather than being white noise.
4. You said, "It’s fortunate that the Celtics players don’t act or adopt Stevens persona, can you imagine 12 catatonic players who just stare vacantly while chewing a fingernail when a call doesn’t go their way." I think they have adopted his persona. They are respectful to the officials and the game. They play hard and play smart. They play the game the right way on both ends of the court. They fight to stay in games that they could have been blown out in.

I think you are dead wrong about Stevens. I would like to see a few different wrinkles in their offense and defense, but overall, I think he has been great at player development, has represented the Celtics organization well, has instilled a great scheme, and has built a winning culture.

Re: The Problems with Brad Stevens
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2015, 01:36:44 PM »

Offline manl_lui

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6571
  • Tommy Points: 427
Actual spaces between your paragraphs make a post a lot easier to read.

Beyond that I don't love Stevens rotations either, but he's getting good results with our talent. His reliance on the 3-ball isn't in anyway out of the ordinary for the league. Nor do the C's have a dominant penetrating wing or post that would dictate a different strategy. I'd rather have Sullinger play more down low, but in team terms he's the only guy I'd quibble with.

I don't mind his "lack" of emotion as emotional leaders will cost teams games too. Its just different styles of coaching and leadership for different guys. Stevens has kept the team competing throughout these two years. Which is a lot more than many first time coaches in bad situations have.

I'm more or less the same page as you are. My biggest thing with B.Stevens is his ability to get this team to play hard, day in and day out. Given our amount of talent, BS is getting good results with them. I think my biggest judgement of BS will come when 2 things happen

1. What happens when he actually have good talent around him.

2. How he develops young players like Smart, and Young

Re: The Problems with Brad Stevens
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2015, 01:39:23 PM »

Offline KeepRondo

  • NCE
  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5161
  • Tommy Points: 215
You lost me when you complained that Phil Pressey should get more minutes. This has to be a joke right?

Re: The Problems with Brad Stevens
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2015, 01:46:13 PM »

Offline clover

  • Front Page Moderator
  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6130
  • Tommy Points: 315
I think the truth lies somewhere in between. I'd like Young to get more minutes and more varied opportunities to score, and I would like KO to get 30+ minutes every night he plays.

But Brad is probably juggling some different priorities for Danny and yes, he's still learning on the job himself. I was hoping to see him get playoffs experience this year as much as I was hoping his players would. But unless KO and his ankle really come back strong that's probably a long shot at this point.

That's okay--a better drafting position is good too. But Stevens has now about a year and a half of experience and he'll probably get in another year and a half experience before his first playoffs--which is likely two and a half years of additional experience before his first playoffs that really matter.

It actually helped the team's drafting position last year that Stevens wasn't better, but he's a smart guy who fundamentally knows basketball and is apparently trustworthy (important for commanding respect from modern NBA players), so I'm giving him more time.

I certainly hope what we see isn't the finished product with Stevens--but I also doubt that it is.

Re: The Problems with Brad Stevens
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2015, 01:59:50 PM »

Offline Jonny CC

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 960
  • Tommy Points: 76
TP for backing up your opinions and not just posting a Bash Brad thread without some thought.
 
Rotations - I agree that some of his moves are maddening.  There are a lot of times when I question why certain players are on/off the court when you take into consideration the different factors (score, opposing players on the court, etc).  That being said, it's not like he has a bunch of superstars to work with and I assume that there are other factors involved.  Maybe he wants to see how they play in certain situations...or maybe someone looked bad (or great) in practice and that has influenced his decision...whatever. 

Lack of Emotion - I think that's totally overrated.  They had a closeup of Brad last night and you could hear him yell "That wasn't even close to a foul" on a play.  He got mad (...well, mad for him) and made his point but it was funny because I expected him to say "Golly Gee" at the end of it. 
I don't think a coach needs to yell and act like a nut to get respect.  The refs and players probably like the fact that Stevens doesn't berate them.  I think there may be some players who perform better with a Bobby Knight-type of coach, but that's not Brad's style.   He has his own approach and it's worked for him throughout his career. 

This is his first job as an NBA coach so I'm sure he would be the first to admit that he's made some mistakes.  Now the key is for him to learn from his mistakes. 

The big problem I have with criticizing Stevens now is the quality of players that he's had to work with.  Let's be honest here...it's been like the Land of Misfit Toys.  Let's give him a chance with a quality roster and see how he does.   
Before a game on Christmas against the Pacers, Bird told Chuck Person that he had a present for him. During the game, Bird shot a 3-pointer in front of Person. Immediately after releasing the ball, Bird said to Person, "Merry F!#*ing Christmas!" and then the shot went in.

Re: The Problems with Brad Stevens
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2015, 02:04:45 PM »

Offline Quetzalcoatl

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4102
  • Tommy Points: 419
Yeah for the rotations, he is still at the mercy of Danny.  Danny is almost certainly telling him "Marcus needs XX minutes, Bradley needs XX minutes, James Young needs a look in situation Y, etc."  CBS is probably trying to win, but he still needs to get the young guys some run.  If he were just playing to win every second of every game, Marcus Smart would have played like 1/3rd of the time he has at most and he'd be worse off long term for it.  It's not like the cost of getting our guys better is a championship is slipping through our fingers. 

At the same time though, I love the attitude of the anti-tankers.  Boston fans are so rabid it's great. 

Re: The Problems with Brad Stevens
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2015, 02:29:18 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17914
  • Tommy Points: 1294
Stevens should thank Ainge for netting him Thomas, because if given enough minutes, IT will mask Brad S's inability to call any sort of functional plays.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: The Problems with Brad Stevens
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2015, 02:38:56 PM »

Offline snowball

  • Derrick White
  • Posts: 446
  • Tommy Points: 47
Stevens will be gone within 1-2 years as Danny Ainge is
going to need a scapegoat - a sacrificial wicker man to burn
because the plain truth as I see it is Danny doesn't have a clue
what he is doing.

Re: The Problems with Brad Stevens
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2015, 02:48:30 PM »

Offline furball

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 938
  • Tommy Points: 95
I'll jump right in..  As for his rotations, I think he is trying to see what guys can do and how they fit together.  When you are not going all out for a championship you can test guys in game situations.  See how they react to different situations and what they can do on the court and how they fit together. You do thta by giving them time, not just pulling them as soon as two possessions go bad.  As someone mentioned, you let them develop in the games.  Now, if Ainge puts together a team that's ready to compete and he is still doing this, then we have a problem. 

As for his demeanor, it's not what I prefer or how I would be on the sidelines but I don't think it's an issue.  Sure I would like him to blow up on a ref every now and then or try to fire up his team but it's not necessary. 

As far as the three point shooting goes I think that is more a league issue than a Steven's issue (they really need to go back to the old illegal defense rule!!).  Plus, he doesn't have many other options.  The Only guy on the team aside from Ike Thomas, who hasn't even played a full game yet, who drives to the hoop since Rondo left is Turner and most of the people on here hate him.  I am interested to see how things look once Thomas gets a few practices under his belt. 

The one issue I have with Stevens is the way he uses Kelly Olynyk.  Having him play only outside the three point line is not using his skills in the best way.  He needs to play around the free throw line.  That would allow him to use all of his skills and become a much bigger part of the offense. 

Re: The Problems with Brad Stevens
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2015, 02:59:01 PM »

Offline oldutican

  • Joe Mazzulla
  • Posts: 138
  • Tommy Points: 12
 Brad Stephens is the least of the Celtics problems.

Re: The Problems with Brad Stevens
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2015, 03:16:15 PM »

Offline MSceltic

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 239
  • Tommy Points: 23
Respectfully disagree with you OP
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 03:23:55 PM by MSceltic »

Re: The Problems with Brad Stevens
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2015, 03:28:43 PM »

Offline GratefulCs

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3181
  • Tommy Points: 496
  • Salmon and Mashed Potatoes
The problem with Brad Stevens is that he's not magical and, like most coaches, needs serious talent to seriously contend
I trust Danny Ainge