Andrew Sharp (Grantland) says C's deadline losers

[BleedGreen1989]

Celtics

“Wait, W T F are they doing?”

I just can’t understand whether the Celtics are tanking or not. If they are going for the eighth seed … why? If they are trying to land in the top five, why trade for Thomas? Giving up the Cavs pick is not as big of a deal as “first-round pick” sounds, but still. Adding a scoring combo guard to Marcus Smart and Avery Bradley doesn’t make a whole lot of sense in any context, and especially not one in which the goal is to rebuild through the draft.

This is what happens you plan to tank for a year or two and accidentally hire a great coach who gets the most out of everyone on the roster. If the Celtics had Byron Scott instead of Brad Stevens, their tanking intentions would be crystal clear right now.

[TheFlex]

Lol, so the C's are losers because the coach is so good that they've had to make adjustments midway through their rebuilding plan? Yeah, that makes sense. I'd much rather be LAL and at least know my team wants to stink because we have few good young players and a horrible coach!

[gift]

His argument seems to be more critical of the direction of the franchise. He even concedes the actual move at the deadline was good.

[celticsclay]

I generally like Sharp, but my response to this would also be Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline..

The Celtics have already won 20 games. There is a probably a 50% chance that Philly, New York, Minnesota and the Lakers won't win many more than 20 in the whole season. Then there are the teams like Denver and  Utah that just gave away starting level players for nobody that will play for them. Orlando and Sacramento are already behind us and more or less eliminated from the playoffs. Whether we get the 8th pick or the 12th pick or the 14th pick who really cares? How many games does Isiah Thomas single highhandedly win for us? Why can't we just enjoy the games and accept the celtics are where they are?

They got a good young player on a great contract, they have some young prospects that have shown promise and have a ton of upcoming draft picks from other teams that are in varying degress of decay. There is a ton to be happy about instead of moaning whether we finish with 31 wins instead of 28.

[saltlover]

Ainge has long said "build through the draft" doesn't mean solely that you only use your draft picks to draft players.  It also means trading your draft picks for players who help out.  Draft picks are currency.  This trade is a great example of that philosphy, and anyone who thinks otherwise simply doesn't understand what Ainge's definition of that phrase is.

[Roy H.]

Grantland is so overrated.  I hate "hot takes", especially when the hot take is "the young PG who can score 20 as a starter, or 15 off the bench, and who is signed to a reasonable deal, is a bad pickup".

[Waew]

That cavs pick is more likely to be a jajuan johnson skill level than a IT skill level player

[fairweatherfan]

Celtics

“Wait, W T F are they doing?”

I just can’t understand whether the Celtics are tanking or not. If they are going for the eighth seed … why? If they are trying to land in the top five, why trade for Thomas? Giving up the Cavs pick is not as big of a deal as “first-round pick” sounds, but still. Adding a scoring combo guard to Marcus Smart and Avery Bradley doesn’t make a whole lot of sense in any context, and especially not one in which the goal is to rebuild through the draft.

This is what happens you plan to tank for a year or two and accidentally hire a great coach who gets the most out of everyone on the roster. If the Celtics had Byron Scott instead of Brad Stevens, their tanking intentions would be crystal clear right now.

Somebody tell this guy the "top 5 pick" ship sailed like a month ago when we traded Rondo and Green and not only didn't get worse but improved.  I don't think we're trying to make the playoffs, but it's a very safe bet that our pick would be in the second half of the lottery with or without Thomas.  Our rebuild through the draft plan at this point runs through Brooklyn, not Boston.

[cman88]

If C's way is the wrong way, then what is the right way? the 76ers plan? I dont see how their tankapalooza is going to guide them anywhere other than the basement for the next 10years.

the celtics at least seem to have a light(while dim) at the end of the tunnel

[Moranis]

I don't disagree with him.  What is the point in the trade?  On its face it is a clear win, but it doesn't make Boston contenders and hurts Boston draft pick status this year. 

[kraidstar]

i'm neutral on the IT deal. it's reasonable money, and i think his skillset should complement smart and bradley well. but his size and similarities to nate robinson concern me. also at 26 years old i wonder if he has a lot of upside left.

but i don't get the whole "draft position doesn't matter" argument that seems to be sweeping across these boards.
it does.

if we pick 12th, and the last all-star gets picked 11th, then we literally can't get an all-star at that spot.

there's a finite amount of high-end talent in these drafts.

[Mr October]

I don't disagree with him.  What is the point in the trade?  On its face it is a clear win, but it doesn't make Boston contenders and hurts Boston draft pick status this year.

I don't thinkmthe needle moves much here. Right now the Celtics are looking at the 10th or 11th pick in the draft. I bet that's where they will be at the end of the year as well. Detroit should pass the Celtics.

They are and have been too good for a top 5 pick for some time now. philly, New York, LA, Minnesota have locked down the bottom 4. Utah, orlando, Sacramento, Denver, etc keep stinking things up as well.

The good of the trade is increasing the talent of the team. Sometimes you have to make small improvements before the big move can happen.

[piercetruth34]

Grantland has always been a site that needs to be cynical for the sake of being cynical.  It's like WEEI was for a long time and Comcast sports net.  They seem to be changing their tune somewhat.  Hopefully that stuff will go by the wayside in general.  I've never been a proponent for tanking or losing purposely.  I think you have to build a team and like what Ainge is doing.  I like to think we are actually building something and chemistry still means something especially when it comes to the Celtics.  The Celtics have always been that way and not just a bunch of hired guns.

The way I see the trade is Ainge wanted to make a move and get a player who could help us now and in the future.  We are still missing pieces but we have so many draft picks it doesn't matter.  We still need a nucleus and a core team.  It's more about being smart to me.  Ainge is playing it smart. I don't think he has to go all in on the draft.  Trade all our good players etc.  It's not an either or situation.  I've never believed that. Teams that do that end up in the lottery year after year.

I'd like to think there are players on this team as well we wouldn't just trade for someone else either.  There has to be some loyalty and seeing the bigger picture. I think Ainge does a good job of that and going all in on a much more all emcompassing way.

This is why guys like Bill Simmons would never make it as a GM imo. Their petty debates and small mindedness shows.

[Celtics4ever]

I don't agree we got a nice little guard and some platoon type players that Stevens will use well.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

I don't disagree with him.  What is the point in the trade?  On its face it is a clear win, but it doesn't make Boston contenders and hurts Boston draft pick status this year.

I don't think the needle moves much here. Right now the Celtics are looking at the 10th or 11th pick in the draft. I bet that's where they will be at the end of the year as well. Detroit should pass the Celtics.

They are and have been too good for a top 5 pick for some time now. philly, New York, LA, Minnesota have locked down the bottom 4. Utah, orlando, Sacramento, Denver, etc keep stinking things up as well.

The good of the trade is increasing the talent of the team. Sometimes you have to make small improvements before the big move can happen.

I agree. I think we're too good to be one of the worst teams coming in anyway, even with Rondo and Green. We got them out, and we played better, which to me is a better result as now we know how good a coach BS can be.

Grabbing another great asset for a cheap price that we can either have as a part of the future or someone we can move for better value than what we gave up is a win. So either we are tanking or we're making the Playoffs, I don't think IT moved the needle a ton in either direction, but it's nice to have him as a piece.