Author Topic: A deeper, detailed look inside the 76ers Tank machine and Sam Hinkie's strategy  (Read 12116 times)

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Offline chambers

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Really good read that shows the detail that Sam Hinkie is going in to with this young roster.
I didn't realize how obsessive compulsive he is.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12318808/the-philadelphia-76ers-radical-guide-winning

This is certainly not a 'lose and hope' strategy. They are going all out. Hinkie's got a staff of 13 people to help Coach Brown develop this young core to their fullest potential and it's like nothing ever seen before in the NBA.
They even get scored on effort and output after every game and have a Navy Seal in charge of their team building.

Just a few paragraphs:

Two years into Brown's four-year contract, Hinkie has handed his coach a staff of more than a dozen, with individuals responsible for everything from offense and defense, to analytics, to sports science, to video, to strength and conditioning. One basketball-ops staffer, Lance "Doc" Pearson, has a Ph.D. in cognitive and neural systems from Boston University and degrees in mathematics, computer science and philosophy from the University of Kentucky. Another guy, who teaches team-building part time, is a Navy SEAL.




and...

But exertion -- as with any goal for these Sixers -- is more than a cliché. After every game, a squad of as many as eight staffers, under the direction of Pearson and assistant coach Vance Walberg, constructs something called an Effort Chart. Every Sixer, on every possession, is graded on five complex, proprietary criteria. On offense, for instance, the team wants to reward pace, so staffers time a player's first three steps when a miss is recovered. On defense, they'll recognize accomplishments such as contested shots, tips and deflections. Report cards, linked to video for review, are announced to the team. "We set it up as a competition," undrafted forward JaKarr Sampson gushes. Brown harps on the team average -- a score of 20 is high -- and denotes improvement in 10-game chunks.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Offline krumeto

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Interesting information. This certainly makes me respect this organization a tiny bit more.

Question is still if they are training these guys for their own good or to see them join winning organizations later. How long would it take for this core to actually start wining games?

I do not see it next year - bottom 10 team again. Maybe in 2016/2017. How long before we start hearing "Noel unhappy with 76ers, request trade", "Embiid wants out" etc...

Will Saric come to play with a worse team in NBA than his current in Turkey? Even if he comes, he is very Mirotic-like - very good player, but not an NBA star.
"We do so many defensive drills in practice, I come home and I'm putting the press on my woman, denying her the ball.
Y'all are laughing, but it's sad. I go home and deny the wing."

Offline Who

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I have been impressed with their head coach. Implementing quality offensive system last year. Defensive system this year. The team is very short on talent so good work doesn't always show up well but I think he is a very good coach. He'll do well once Philly get more talent for him.

I am looking forward to the Sixers next year. I think they'll have good stable of talent by then. Young talent that will need time to grow but legitimate quality.

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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I have been impressed with their head coach. Implementing quality offensive system last year. Defensive system this year. The team is very short on talent so good work doesn't always show up well but I think he is a very good coach. He'll do well once Philly get more talent for him.

I am looking forward to the Sixers next year. I think they'll have good stable of talent by then. Young talent that will need time to grow but legitimate quality.

I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid people have been praising that organization with their tanking strategy, but ONE thing I really praise them for is when they hired that coach, and the work he's doing there.

Offline D.o.s.

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The 76ers were one of the worst offensive teams in the league last year, are one of the worst offensive and defensive teams in the league this year, and over the last two seasons are 31-84 so far, while having the temerity to raise ticket prices over the same period.

They have an excuse/retirement home for a roster, some pieces of mostly-unknown but largely middling talent, and their most promising players are a pair of apparently fragile big men who have been 110% absent and largely underwhelming, respectively.

The fact that ESPN was commissioned to do a fluff piece of the 76ers so that some fans will stop being so negative about how crap they are. Am I surprised that Hinkie loves TED Talks? Not in the slightest. Am I surprised that his plan is to become a crappier version of Houston -- the East Edition?
Quote
Until then, the Sixers are second to last in 3-point percentage, at 31 percent, while still attempting more 3s than all but 10 teams.


Great. Good for you. This isn't to discount the importance of analytics when it comes to discussing baseball, but holy crap this team is awful and don't deserve an ounce of praise for willfully rostering a disgrace to professional basketball.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Offline hwangjini_1

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i dont think we won't be able to judge the sixers for another 2-3 years in terms of the talent they have drafted. yes, just in time for their rookie contracts to be ending.

for me, even if the sixers do draft talent, the key question is what they do to keep it, or trade it for other talent. that will tell the future for the team.
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Online Moranis

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I'd much rather have the Sixers roster than ours.  I think Embiid is going to be a real star, Noel has looked a lot better of late (not surprising given he is a rookie recovering from major knee surgery), they still have Saric over seas, a top 5 pick coming this year as well as I think two more now that they OKC's, and the reigning rookie of the year in Carter-Williams (I know it was a weaker class, but his numbers compare favorably with virtually every wing to win the award over the last 15 years including James and Durant).  Not to mention Wroten and McDaniels look like they could be solid bench/rotation players. 
2025 Historical Draft - Cleveland Cavaliers - 1st pick

Starters - Luka, JB, Lebron, Wemby, Shaq
Rotation - Noah,
Deep Bench -

Online Moranis

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scratch that part about MCW apparently he was just traded
2025 Historical Draft - Cleveland Cavaliers - 1st pick

Starters - Luka, JB, Lebron, Wemby, Shaq
Rotation - Noah,
Deep Bench -

Offline slamtheking

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I'd much rather have the Sixers roster than ours.  I think Embiid is going to be a real star, Noel has looked a lot better of late (not surprising given he is a rookie recovering from major knee surgery), they still have Saric over seas, a top 5 pick coming this year as well as I think two more now that they OKC's, and the reigning rookie of the year in Carter-Williams (I know it was a weaker class, but his numbers compare favorably with virtually every wing to win the award over the last 15 years including James and Durant).  Not to mention Wroten and McDaniels look like they could be solid bench/rotation players. 
With the exception of Embiid, who has yet to play one NBA game yet, I'd take the C's younger players in combination with the plethora of picks Danny has accummulated. 

Offline chambers

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The 76ers were one of the worst offensive teams in the league last year, are one of the worst offensive and defensive teams in the league this year, and over the last two seasons are 31-84 so far, while having the temerity to raise ticket prices over the same period.

They have an excuse/retirement home for a roster, some pieces of mostly-unknown but largely middling talent, and their most promising players are a pair of apparently fragile big men who have been 110% absent and largely underwhelming, respectively.

The fact that ESPN was commissioned to do a fluff piece of the 76ers so that some fans will stop being so negative about how crap they are. Am I surprised that Hinkie loves TED Talks? Not in the slightest. Am I surprised that his plan is to become a crappier version of Houston -- the East Edition?
Quote
Until then, the Sixers are second to last in 3-point percentage, at 31 percent, while still attempting more 3s than all but 10 teams.


Great. Good for you. This isn't to discount the importance of analytics when it comes to discussing baseball, but holy crap this team is awful and don't deserve an ounce of praise for willfully rostering a disgrace to professional basketball.

Fair enough to call it what it is at this current point in time, but the full picture includes Embid, Saric, their 2016 pick and now the Lakers 2015 pick.

I guess the debate lies around whether or not you think it's okay to go through hell, to get to heaven.

I wanna see their line up of

C Noel
PF Embid
SF Saric
G Rookie 2016
G Rookie (lakers pick)

before I judge.

Although I do understand if you just hate the idea of a team that losing to win and taking the 'easy' way out as some may put it.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

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are one of the worst offensive and defensive teams in the league this year, and over the last two seasons are 31-84 so far, while having the temerity to raise ticket prices over the same period.

They have an excuse/retirement home for a roster, some pieces of mostly-unknown but largely middling talent, and their most promising players are a pair of apparently fragile big men who have been 110% absent and largely underwhelming, respectively.


Noel might be the best rookie defender ever... In what world that represents an absent, underwhelming player I'm not sure. And the Sixers are the 12th best defensive team in the NBA, so the first thing you wrote is blatant BS too.

All of which is even funnier considering Boston has been a major player in the 3 most recent tankathons in the league history.

Offline tazzmaniac

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The 76ers were one of the worst offensive teams in the league last year, are one of the worst offensive and defensive teams in the league this year, and over the last two seasons are 31-84 so far, while having the temerity to raise ticket prices over the same period.

They have an excuse/retirement home for a roster, some pieces of mostly-unknown but largely middling talent, and their most promising players are a pair of apparently fragile big men who have been 110% absent and largely underwhelming, respectively.

The fact that ESPN was commissioned to do a fluff piece of the 76ers so that some fans will stop being so negative about how crap they are. Am I surprised that Hinkie loves TED Talks? Not in the slightest. Am I surprised that his plan is to become a crappier version of Houston -- the East Edition?
Quote
Until then, the Sixers are second to last in 3-point percentage, at 31 percent, while still attempting more 3s than all but 10 teams.


Great. Good for you. This isn't to discount the importance of analytics when it comes to discussing baseball, but holy crap this team is awful and don't deserve an ounce of praise for willfully rostering a disgrace to professional basketball.

Fair enough to call it what it is at this current point in time, but the full picture includes Embid, Saric, their 2016 pick and now the Lakers 2015 pick.

I guess the debate lies around whether or not you think it's okay to go through hell, to get to heaven.

I wanna see their line up of

C Noel
PF Embid
SF Saric
G Rookie 2016
G Rookie (lakers pick)

before I judge.

Although I do understand if you just hate the idea of a team that losing to win and taking the 'easy' way out as some may put it.
You left off the Sixers 2015 pick which is most likely going to be Mudiay or Russell and they've also got the Miami 1st and OKC 1st.     

Offline chambers

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The 76ers were one of the worst offensive teams in the league last year, are one of the worst offensive and defensive teams in the league this year, and over the last two seasons are 31-84 so far, while having the temerity to raise ticket prices over the same period.

They have an excuse/retirement home for a roster, some pieces of mostly-unknown but largely middling talent, and their most promising players are a pair of apparently fragile big men who have been 110% absent and largely underwhelming, respectively.

The fact that ESPN was commissioned to do a fluff piece of the 76ers so that some fans will stop being so negative about how crap they are. Am I surprised that Hinkie loves TED Talks? Not in the slightest. Am I surprised that his plan is to become a crappier version of Houston -- the East Edition?
Quote
Until then, the Sixers are second to last in 3-point percentage, at 31 percent, while still attempting more 3s than all but 10 teams.


Great. Good for you. This isn't to discount the importance of analytics when it comes to discussing baseball, but holy crap this team is awful and don't deserve an ounce of praise for willfully rostering a disgrace to professional basketball.

Fair enough to call it what it is at this current point in time, but the full picture includes Embid, Saric, their 2016 pick and now the Lakers 2015 pick.

I guess the debate lies around whether or not you think it's okay to go through hell, to get to heaven.

I wanna see their line up of

C Noel
PF Embid
SF Saric
G Rookie 2016
G Rookie (lakers pick)

before I judge.

Although I do understand if you just hate the idea of a team that losing to win and taking the 'easy' way out as some may put it.
You left off the Sixers 2015 pick which is most likely going to be Mudiay or Russell and they've also got the Miami 1st and OKC 1st.   

Their 2015 pick was embid, I said lakers 15' when I meant lakers 16' :)

But yes we agree
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Online Moranis

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The 76ers were one of the worst offensive teams in the league last year, are one of the worst offensive and defensive teams in the league this year, and over the last two seasons are 31-84 so far, while having the temerity to raise ticket prices over the same period.

They have an excuse/retirement home for a roster, some pieces of mostly-unknown but largely middling talent, and their most promising players are a pair of apparently fragile big men who have been 110% absent and largely underwhelming, respectively.

The fact that ESPN was commissioned to do a fluff piece of the 76ers so that some fans will stop being so negative about how crap they are. Am I surprised that Hinkie loves TED Talks? Not in the slightest. Am I surprised that his plan is to become a crappier version of Houston -- the East Edition?
Quote
Until then, the Sixers are second to last in 3-point percentage, at 31 percent, while still attempting more 3s than all but 10 teams.


Great. Good for you. This isn't to discount the importance of analytics when it comes to discussing baseball, but holy crap this team is awful and don't deserve an ounce of praise for willfully rostering a disgrace to professional basketball.

Fair enough to call it what it is at this current point in time, but the full picture includes Embid, Saric, their 2016 pick and now the Lakers 2015 pick.

I guess the debate lies around whether or not you think it's okay to go through hell, to get to heaven.

I wanna see their line up of

C Noel
PF Embid
SF Saric
G Rookie 2016
G Rookie (lakers pick)

before I judge.

Although I do understand if you just hate the idea of a team that losing to win and taking the 'easy' way out as some may put it.
You left off the Sixers 2015 pick which is most likely going to be Mudiay or Russell and they've also got the Miami 1st and OKC 1st.   

Their 2015 pick was embid, I said lakers 15' when I meant lakers 16' :)

But yes we agree
The Sixers 2014 picks were Embiid and Saric.  The 2015 draft hasn't happened yet.  The Sixers have 3 picks in that draft including their own which will almost certainly be a top 5 pick.
2025 Historical Draft - Cleveland Cavaliers - 1st pick

Starters - Luka, JB, Lebron, Wemby, Shaq
Rotation - Noah,
Deep Bench -

Online SHAQATTACK

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It could ultimately work out.   For now ....but it looks bad on the sport doing crap like this ...I think the NBA wil be forced to correct this thinking.

If you provide an awful product for years on end , hiring D league talent to loose on purpose ,  after being in the lottery top five for like 7 years .."..

They will finally  land a core . Law of averages say after getting every lottery pick .."eventually you'll hit a Kevin Durrant or close.....it's a brainless way to rebuild a team and torture PAYING fans ...I would not go for free

But ......look at the coach , fans , players ...all beaten down while this happens .

This is no way to run a happy ship.


I hope the NBA shuts down thus multiple year losing scheme .......mega welfare ......where teams have incentive not to perform ........this looks bad on the sport

Once you get your top three pick...you go to the back of the line next year........no more dumping all players every year to return to the lottery .

Play ball with what you got