Brent Barry rips analytics detractors “some people need to get out of their cave

[eddies2010]

“Talent, you’ll always need talent, but to think that they don’t use the numbers to benefit their team and use that as a tool to be better, you gotta get out of that cave.” -Brent Barry

Full story: http://clnsradio.com/boston-celtics-news/item/11471-brent-barry-charles-barkley-comments-a-massive-disservice

[LHR]

“Talent, you’ll always need talent, but to think that they don’t use the numbers to benefit their team and use that as a tool to be better, you gotta get out of that cave.” -Brent Barry

Full story: http://clnsradio.com/boston-celtics-news/item/11471-brent-barry-charles-barkley-comments-a-massive-disservice

Thank you! I conducted that interview with Brent actually.  Very kind of you to post it here.  Was a good chat - Bones totally brought that up on his own with me too.  I didn't have to egg him on.  Hope it was in good fun.  Fun story: Brent came to my seats during the 2010 Finals and handed me a Celtics shirt of all things with Barkley, Magic Johnson and many others autographs on it.

Great conversation as we talked a whole lot more than this.  But yeah, this is what totally stuck out.  He's very open-minded and has an interesting perspective playing under Morey and Buford to end his career.  He usually comes up to Boston every March for Sloan.

[Kane3387]

“Talent, you’ll always need talent, but to think that they don’t use the numbers to benefit their team and use that as a tool to be better, you gotta get out of that cave.” -Brent Barry

Full story: http://clnsradio.com/boston-celtics-news/item/11471-brent-barry-charles-barkley-comments-a-massive-disservice

Thank you! I conducted that interview with Brent actually.  Very kind of you to post it here.  Was a good chat - Bones totally brought that up on his own with me too.  I didn't have to egg him on.  Hope it was in good fun.  Fun story: Brent came to my seats during the 2010 Finals and handed me a Celtics shirt of all things with Barkley, Magic Johnson and many others autographs on it.

Great conversation as we talked a whole lot more than this.  But yeah, this is what totally stuck out.  He's very open-minded and has an interesting perspective playing under Morey and Buford to end his career.  He usually comes up to Boston every March for Sloan.

That's pretty cool you actually conducted this interview.

[MBunge]

Analytics are useful but I think making them the #1 focus is almost as bad as ignoring them altogether.

For example, I will not be at all surprised if Houston gets dumped in the first round of the playoffs again, even with a healthy Howard.  The "nothing but 3's and layups" mindset is going to run into trouble every time you get into a 7 game series where the other team can adjust its defense to focus on denying those two things. 

Analytics are all about efficiency, but efficiency isn't the only thing of value in basketball.

Mike

[Cman]

“Talent, you’ll always need talent, but to think that they don’t use the numbers to benefit their team and use that as a tool to be better, you gotta get out of that cave.” -Brent Barry

Full story: http://clnsradio.com/boston-celtics-news/item/11471-brent-barry-charles-barkley-comments-a-massive-disservice

Thank you! I conducted that interview with Brent actually.  Very kind of you to post it here.  Was a good chat - Bones totally brought that up on his own with me too.  I didn't have to egg him on.  Hope it was in good fun.  Fun story: Brent came to my seats during the 2010 Finals and handed me a Celtics shirt of all things with Barkley, Magic Johnson and many others autographs on it.

Great conversation as we talked a whole lot more than this.  But yeah, this is what totally stuck out.  He's very open-minded and has an interesting perspective playing under Morey and Buford to end his career.  He usually comes up to Boston every March for Sloan.

Nice work LHR.
By "Sloan" I assume you mean the Sloan Sports Conference? http://www.sloansportsconference.com/
Are you a regular?

[LHR]

“Talent, you’ll always need talent, but to think that they don’t use the numbers to benefit their team and use that as a tool to be better, you gotta get out of that cave.” -Brent Barry

Full story: http://clnsradio.com/boston-celtics-news/item/11471-brent-barry-charles-barkley-comments-a-massive-disservice

Thank you! I conducted that interview with Brent actually.  Very kind of you to post it here.  Was a good chat - Bones totally brought that up on his own with me too.  I didn't have to egg him on.  Hope it was in good fun.  Fun story: Brent came to my seats during the 2010 Finals and handed me a Celtics shirt of all things with Barkley, Magic Johnson and many others autographs on it.

Great conversation as we talked a whole lot more than this.  But yeah, this is what totally stuck out.  He's very open-minded and has an interesting perspective playing under Morey and Buford to end his career.  He usually comes up to Boston every March for Sloan.

That's pretty cool you actually conducted this interview.

Hehe appreciate it.  Brent's a good friend, a friend to many too.  Treats a lot of us commoners with much respect.

Ain't gonna lie though, and it's ok for me to tell Bones this - but the coolest was last week with Wyc and Rich Gotham (which Jeff Clark so kindly featured on this great site!)

Cheers,

LHR

[LHR]

“Talent, you’ll always need talent, but to think that they don’t use the numbers to benefit their team and use that as a tool to be better, you gotta get out of that cave.” -Brent Barry

Full story: http://clnsradio.com/boston-celtics-news/item/11471-brent-barry-charles-barkley-comments-a-massive-disservice

Thank you! I conducted that interview with Brent actually.  Very kind of you to post it here.  Was a good chat - Bones totally brought that up on his own with me too.  I didn't have to egg him on.  Hope it was in good fun.  Fun story: Brent came to my seats during the 2010 Finals and handed me a Celtics shirt of all things with Barkley, Magic Johnson and many others autographs on it.

Great conversation as we talked a whole lot more than this.  But yeah, this is what totally stuck out.  He's very open-minded and has an interesting perspective playing under Morey and Buford to end his career.  He usually comes up to Boston every March for Sloan.

Nice work LHR.
By "Sloan" I assume you mean the Sloan Sports Conference? http://www.sloansportsconference.com/
Are you a regular?

Yeah Sloan Sports.

I haven't been to that since the second one...which I believe was 2010 ()  They even charge us in media now for a credential!

Should go because there a lot of great voices, but it has gotten to be one of those things where it's gotten TOO big.  Just too easy to get lost in the shuffle.

Thanks for the response!

All the best,

LHR

[GreenFaith1819]

Well, I guess that the late Red Auerbach and Dr. Buss must've had some REALLY nice caves.......

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

Well, I guess that the late Red Auerbach and Dr. Buss must've had some REALLY nice caves.......

 

Really?

[GreenFaith1819]

Well, I guess that the late Red Auerbach and Dr. Buss must've had some REALLY nice caves.......

 

Really?

Hello, RAAAAAAAAAAAAANDY. Welcome to the blog.

I'll up you one on the rolling eyes:



To be more specific (and analytic), I don't think Wilt, Magic, Bird, Russell, Kareem, Hakeem - etc - were great because of some smart folks used numbers to state they'd be great. These HOFers put up great numbers in college, sure - but I don't think anyone could predict these guys would be household names, HOFers  - back in high school or college.

Numbers, analytics - have a place, but one day we may geek ourselves out of existence.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

Well, I guess that the late Red Auerbach and Dr. Buss must've had some REALLY nice caves.......

 

Really?

Hello, RAAAAAAAAAAAAANDY. Welcome to the blog.

I'll up you one on the rolling eyes:



To be more specific (and analytic), I don't think Wilt, Magic, Bird, Russell, Kareem, Hakeem - etc - were great because of some smart folks used numbers to state they'd be great. These HOFers put up great numbers in college, sure - but I don't think anyone could predict these guys would be household names, HOFers  - back in high school or college.

Numbers, analytics - have a place, but one day we may geek ourselves out of existence.

What does geek ourselves out of existence even mean?

They're a tool to supplement every other means of player evaluation. Nobody is arguing that they replace scouting, coaching, etc.

And considering where the guys you listed went in the draft I'm pretty sure that people had an idea they'd be great NBA players. Half the league imploded intentionally trying to get Hakeem.

The guys you looked at hold up brilliantly through the typical stats associated with analytics.

[GreenFaith1819]

Well, I guess that the late Red Auerbach and Dr. Buss must've had some REALLY nice caves.......

 

Really?

Hello, RAAAAAAAAAAAAANDY. Welcome to the blog.

I'll up you one on the rolling eyes:



To be more specific (and analytic), I don't think Wilt, Magic, Bird, Russell, Kareem, Hakeem - etc - were great because of some smart folks used numbers to state they'd be great. These HOFers put up great numbers in college, sure - but I don't think anyone could predict these guys would be household names, HOFers  - back in high school or college.

Numbers, analytics - have a place, but one day we may geek ourselves out of existence.

What does geek ourselves out of existence even mean?

They're a tool to supplement every other means of player evaluation. Nobody is arguing that they replace scouting, coaching, etc.

And considering where the guys you listed went in the draft I'm pretty sure that people had an idea they'd be great NBA players. Half the league imploded intentionally trying to get Hakeem.

The guys you looked at hold up brilliantly through the typical stats associated with analytics.

BUT - to respond to your bolded part - were there a team of analytics in the 50s-60s-70s-80s, etc - to "Tell" teams that these players were going to be great?

And to answer your question about "geeking ourselves out of existence" - for anyone to be totally dependent on numbers and analytics is dangerous. It has its place, yes, and should not go away - but one shouldn't rely totally on it.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

Well, I guess that the late Red Auerbach and Dr. Buss must've had some REALLY nice caves.......

 

Really?

Hello, RAAAAAAAAAAAAANDY. Welcome to the blog.

I'll up you one on the rolling eyes:



To be more specific (and analytic), I don't think Wilt, Magic, Bird, Russell, Kareem, Hakeem - etc - were great because of some smart folks used numbers to state they'd be great. These HOFers put up great numbers in college, sure - but I don't think anyone could predict these guys would be household names, HOFers  - back in high school or college.

Numbers, analytics - have a place, but one day we may geek ourselves out of existence.

What does geek ourselves out of existence even mean?

They're a tool to supplement every other means of player evaluation. Nobody is arguing that they replace scouting, coaching, etc.

And considering where the guys you listed went in the draft I'm pretty sure that people had an idea they'd be great NBA players. Half the league imploded intentionally trying to get Hakeem.

The guys you looked at hold up brilliantly through the typical stats associated with analytics.

BUT - to respond to your bolded part - were there a team of analytics in the 50s-60s-70s-80s, etc - to "Tell" teams that these players were going to be great?

And to answer your question about "geeking ourselves out of existence" - for anyone to be totally dependent on numbers and analytics is dangerous. It has its place, yes, and should not go away - but one shouldn't rely totally on it.

Who is proposing that you rely entirely on analytics?

To your first question, would you really need a scout to know that a 7 footer who put up 30 ppg and grabbed 18 boards at a good DI school was going to be a monster in the NBA? No... It was self evident that Wilt would be a force regardless of what method you used.

Analytics aren't used to identify superstars, that tends to be pretty easy to do for the most part. Where they're useful is weeding out what skills are most useful in role players, what types of shots your offense should be designed to create, what shots to prevent on defense, what types of skill sets translate the most from college to the NBA, etc.

Analtyics have been used in sports since the 40s in baseball so it wouldn't surprise me if a team used them but held them close to the vest in the NBA in it's formative years.

[BornReady]

Yeah I would never rely solely on analytics to judge players

Technically you could make any player look really good with advance stats
There was a bleacher report article about this a few weeks ago

One of the players was Brandon wright that they reviewed
He had a top 10 PER but this was because of the way Dallas used him
In the limited mins he was able to grab a ton of offensive rebounds because when he was on the floor they would start bombing away from the 3
Plus most of his shots were off rebounds or open assists for a dunk