If Danny cant trade Thornton, Prince and Bass. Will they be bought out?

[hwangjini_1]

it seems rather simple for ainge. he is not worried about wins this year. he is not worried about a meaningless playoff appearance, which is possible only by being in the putrid eastern conference.

he is worried about wins 2-3 years from now.

the question he will answer is - will buy outs help increase the wins in 2-3 years or not?

[Vermont Green]

After reading through this and assuming no one is traded, I think Prince gets bought out maybe but not Bass or Thornton.  If you want to play the youth more, you can do that whether Thornton is on the bench or not if you get right down to it.  Buying out some of these players is not going to make Young or anyone else better.

I actually wouldn't buy out anyone unless they were willing to take a meaningful discount (which they never seem to) or if there was some sort of prior discussion or agreement.  The latter may apply to Prince so that is why I say Prince maybe.

I am not optimistic about the trade potential which is unfortunate.

[Celtics4ever]

I think if we do not make a move, then will play out the season most likely.   It is not like we have young guys waiting in every position.

[hpantazo]

I would keep them just to make the point that if teams are interested in any of our vets in the near future, they shouldn't wait for them to be bought out, because they won't be. They should just man up and give us something in return.

[Kane3387]

I would keep them just to make the point that if teams are interested in any of our vets in the near future, they shouldn't wait for them to be bought out, because they won't be. They should just man up and give us something in return.

Nice. I like that. Tp

[mctyson]

Further - buying out Bass or Thornton would make zero sense as they are productive bench players who seem content playing for the Celtics.

We don't know what Prince thinks - but he is a vet and will play hard wherever he goes.

[colincb]

A) DA said yes to playoffs if Cs keep improving,

http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/1/31/7958039/danny-ainge-says-if-the-boston-celtics-keep-improving-hed-love-to-make-the-playoffs

B) Eastern conference owners likely to nix playoff reform

C) Buyouts without big discounts seem unlikely (but who knows). Don't need more late 2nd rounders from contenders and TPEs and good chance we'd be helping teams like Clippers and Mavs, whose 1st round picks we hold, who are both desperate for minimum salary vets to prop up their benches and make them more legitimate contenders.

[MBunge]

I don't think Ainge is going to buy anyone out.

1.  Prince, Bass and Thornton all seem content to be in Boston.

2.  It's already too late to tank.  Boston would probably have to go 2-29 the rest of the way to significantly improve its lottery odds.

3.  For the first time in forever, Boston is going to have significant cap space next year and the year after.  The rules are now set up to discourage major free agents from switching teams but there's still some value in making yourself as attractive a destination as possible.

4.  Ainge has a lot invested in Stevens and any coach eventually needs to win some games or players stop listening too them. 

5.  If Ainge buys them out, the players can then sign with anyone.  Why take the chance they wind up helping a team that owes Boston a pick?

Mike

1) Does it matter if they are content? Are any of them going to be here next year (probably not)

2) I am not advocating a tank job. I am advocating giving the youngsters a chance to increase experience and value.

3) No matter what we do with these guys it doesn't affect the cap unless we re-sign them.

4) So if we win a few more games because we are keeping vets around that aren't going to be here next year and end up losing more games next year due to a total youth movement, does that help this situation?

5)I could care less what we do or don't do for other teams. The focus needs to be on our rebuild and any moves we make should reflect that, not the standings of another team.

1.  The point is that none of them are complaining about playing time or whatnot, so they're not damaging team chemistry or morale.

2.  The only young player on the roster not getting significant minutes is James Young.  He won't turn 20 until this coming August and he's also clearly NOT READY for major NBA minutes.  Force feeding minutes to guys who aren't ready is the #1 way NBA players form bad habits.

3.  You're missing the point.  Boston with 35 wins and the ability to go over the cap to resign Prince, Bass and Thornton is going to look much better to any free agent than winning 28 games and not being able to bring those guys back.

4.  As I said, getting rid of the vets for nothing likely isn't going to improve our lottery odds.  On the other hand, going 14-17 the rest of the year rather than 9-22 would make a huge difference in Brad Stevens' credibility.  And not only with the players on this team but with other players around the league.

5.  We own the Clippers 1st round pick this year unprotected.  Them grabbing Prince and Thornton could easily make the difference between that pick being #24 or #20.  And if we buy out guys and they sign with a new team, that team has the advantage in keeping them next season and the seasons after that.  Which means if we just let them go, it could increase the chances they help Dallas or Brooklyn or Cleveland, making the picks we're getting from them less valuable.

Mike

[outflip50]

I don't think Ainge is going to buy anyone out.

1.  Prince, Bass and Thornton all seem content to be in Boston.

2.  It's already too late to tank.  Boston would probably have to go 2-29 the rest of the way to significantly improve its lottery odds.

3.  For the first time in forever, Boston is going to have significant cap space next year and the year after.  The rules are now set up to discourage major free agents from switching teams but there's still some value in making yourself as attractive a destination as possible.

4.  Ainge has a lot invested in Stevens and any coach eventually needs to win some games or players stop listening too them. 

5.  If Ainge buys them out, the players can then sign with anyone.  Why take the chance they wind up helping a team that owes Boston a pick?

Mike

1) Does it matter if they are content? Are any of them going to be here next year (probably not)

2) I am not advocating a tank job. I am advocating giving the youngsters a chance to increase experience and value.

3) No matter what we do with these guys it doesn't affect the cap unless we re-sign them.

4) So if we win a few more games because we are keeping vets around that aren't going to be here next year and end up losing more games next year due to a total youth movement, does that help this situation?

5)I could care less what we do or don't do for other teams. The focus needs to be on our rebuild and any moves we make should reflect that, not the standings of another team.

1.  The point is that none of them are complaining about playing time or whatnot, so they're not damaging team chemistry or morale.

2.  The only young player on the roster not getting significant minutes is James Young.  He won't turn 20 until this coming August and he's also clearly NOT READY for major NBA minutes.  Force feeding minutes to guys who aren't ready is the #1 way NBA players form bad habits.

3.  You're missing the point.  Boston with 35 wins and the ability to go over the cap to resign Prince, Bass and Thornton is going to look much better to any free agent than winning 28 games and not being able to bring those guys back.

4.  As I said, getting rid of the vets for nothing likely isn't going to improve our lottery odds.  On the other hand, going 14-17 the rest of the year rather than 9-22 would make a huge difference in Brad Stevens' credibility.  And not only with the players on this team but with other players around the league.

5.  We own the Clippers 1st round pick this year unprotected.  Them grabbing Prince and Thornton could easily make the difference between that pick being #24 or #20.  And if we buy out guys and they sign with a new team, that team has the advantage in keeping them next season and the seasons after that.  Which means if we just let them go, it could increase the chances they help Dallas or Brooklyn or Cleveland, making the picks we're getting from them less valuable.

Mike

1) So are you saying that removing these guys from the locker room somehow diminishes chemistry. To me it would solidify the chemistry with the youngsters we already have in place.

2)We could easily take the minutes given to the vets split them between KO, Crowder, Zeller and smart and keep them under 30 minutes add ten minutes to young and keep him under 20 minutes a game. As stated by Danny and Brad, it is about process not wins.

3)I think you missed my point. Guys on the wrong side of 30 is not the direction this team is headed. Personally, I am all for keeping Bass at a reasonable cost but, the other 2, not so much. While yes we could use Thornton in a S&T and maybe get a pick out of it, I don't do it for the sake of wins or a pipe dream of a first round playoff defeat. Do you honestly believe that Danny would use cape space to sign any of these guys, except maybe Bass?

4)As I stated, I am not doing this to gain wins or add to the loss column. I am doing this to give the young guys as much playing time as possible and shortening Brads rotation. All the while building experience for the young guys. I honestly am not to worried about Brads frame of mind, he is secure in years of contract, again he and Danny have both stated that this is not about wins and losses, it about process and building value.

5) The only way any of these guys affect draft picks is the Clippers, who are severely capped out and missing one of their all-stars. I am not so sure that they are willing to double down on cap dollars for Thornton and Prince just to try and hold on to the 7th or 8th seed.The other teams you mention have no bearing as we don't even sniff their picks till 16 at the earliest and all are most likely to be late picks anyways. Brooklyn is in sell mode not buy mode and are willing to dump just about anything on their roster but, again, no affect until 16. 

I understand where you are coming from as far as treating vets the right way but, is the right way to make them linger in a losing situation knowing they are probably not going to be back here next year anyways or is it to give them the opportunity to go have a chance in the playoffs? I guess that would depend on the vet. I also believe that Danny has already told Prince that if he can't trade him, he will buy him out, I know that this is a belief and not a fact.

 We do know that Danny treats this as a business and has not shown any type of proclivity to treat it any other way. I do know that if he can see that keeping any of them rather then giving them up for nothing will benefit us long term, he will do it. Personally, I just want to expedite the process as much as possible and imo, that is playing the kids as much as possible.

[hwangjini_1]

A) DA said yes to playoffs if Cs keep improving,

http://www.celticsblog.com/2015/1/31/7958039/danny-ainge-says-if-the-boston-celtics-keep-improving-hed-love-to-make-the-playoffs

B) Eastern conference owners likely to nix playoff reform

C) Buyouts without big discounts seem unlikely (but who knows). Don't need more late 2nd rounders from contenders and TPEs and good chance we'd be helping teams like Clippers and Mavs, whose 1st round picks we hold, who are both desperate for minimum salary vets to prop up their benches and make them more legitimate contenders.

well, color me wrong once more. i thought he did not want a losing team to make the playoffs.

[outflip50]

I believe he said he didn't want to "back" in to the playoffs. This would say to me that he doesn't want to enter with a losing record.

[mahcus smaht]

The argument in my mind is....would you rather James Young get 30 minutes in blow out games where the other team is not trying or 15-18 minutes in a game that is competitive throughout and is decided at the buzzer?  I would prefer the latter and I also want him earning minutes.  With the right work habits and coaching Young could be really good, unfortunately we will have to be a little patient.

Bingo. TP.

I think that making a playoff push is the best for the development of our young players. I am also worried that buying these guys out sends  a very negative message to these players who seem to really want to win. Things could get sour very quickly.

The only issue is that I feel like there is a lot of talent in the top 10 of this years draft. There seem to me to be 8-12 top guys. and then a big dropoff. making the playoffs removes these 8-12 as an option. But that is another  debate for another thread.

I hope we keep the band together unless Danny can get some actual value.

[Rakulp]

Hard to see some bought-out action 1.5 games away from a playoff spot.

Yeah, my sentiments exactly.

This team is meshing and if there are no trades to be made, and no cost cutting reason, why do a buy out?  Ride the train to the end...if it's the lottery, so be it...if it's the first round of the playoffs, that's an improvement over last year. 

As for the draft, we have enough picks in enough years to go after any particular person(s) we want, so there's no reason to buyout three good men.

Now, the flip side (not Saunders)...if he can do a trade for 1 or 2 of them, which nets us some future assets primarily, then I can see buying out the 3rd person to give them a chance to sign on with a contender.

So, to summarize...maybe



Rak

[SHAQATTACK]

I don't think dumping the three vets will make a huge difference ..other than screwing fans out of trying to enjoy a little basketball for the first time in two years .

Unless Danny replaces Bass , Prince and Thornton with better players .....I see no reason to let them go before the season is over .....if he uses them to bring in better player s is good ....but not dump them too make the team worsen...thats stupid.

  Fans paid good money to see people who are good play ...not no name D league players .


The team has been stripped down to nothing as it is now ....doing more damage on purpose might have negative effects on team cohesion , chemistry , direction , effort , fan attendance .

If so......tickets should be sold at D league rates ...your putting a poor product out on purpose

Dumping them to hire D league junk players does not promote a winning attitude to the young players of give them confidence or incentive to make the playoff sp


Only Prince and Wallace are really old anyway.

They ARE part of the team.....and the Rookies like them .....and want to bond and do well as a team ......

This a good thing .....a lot of teams have trouble developing chemistry .....why screw it up when they FINALLY are starting to believe in themselves?   


Is it wrong to let them do their job , play well and accomplish something ....have something to build on ...I think not .

[nickagneta]

I think what some who only think in black and white with this tankathon don't realize is that Ainge has to have a balancing act to manage this team the rest of the season

Balance future salary cap flexibility with that of trading expiring veteran contracts and probably having to take on bad contracts.

balancing the locker room where a veteran presence is necessary for the youth but vets help wins games while losing more games helps the draft position.

Balancing giving vets who earn their playing time their playing time and yet trying to get young players playing time to develop.

Balancing keeping ownership happy in that there isn't any owner in the world that wants to pay players to play for other teams by buying those players out even if it is at a modest savings this year.

Balancing keeping Stevens and the players motivated to win, every team wants their coach and players motivated to win, without ruining team chemistry and losing the locker room by appearing to be managing with one purpose, to lose.

Its a fine line Ainge is traversing right now and I doubt it is as simple as: "Buy the vets out, play the youth, and lose" because it goes against everything his new coach is trying to build.

Me, I think the vets stick around with no trades happening and just Prince getting a possible buy out.