Danny and Giannis

[droopdog7]

Giannis was a lottery ticket. During the draft he was a full two inches smaller and had been playing in the Greek third division. There is no way any GM could have looked at him and know with any sort of confidence that he'd be a success.

Unfortunately for us it turns out that he's a lottery ticket that paid off. Still, just because someone else hit the jackpot doesn't mean you criticize the guy that decided he'd rather have a dozen eggs and some milk to last himself through the week instead.

We should tell this to Portland when they took oden over durant and Bowie over Jordan
At least they had Roy, Aldridge and Lilllard

While I am not going to criticize DA for making the best choice at the time, this is not exactly very comforting.  If he indeed the guys goes on to be a star, then mistake or not, the olynyk choice is one that will go down in infamy (just likes those you mentioned).

[RockinRyA]

Whatever the reasons , Ainge missed out on Giannis in 2013 and missed out on Nurkic in 2014. He has to put more trust on foreign players, they are better in general then they were in the past.

Just to clarify;  Nurkic was taken at pick #16.  He was off the board when we picked James Young at #17.

Yeah I was bummed as well. Really thought Danny was going to draft Nurkic if available.

[aporel#18]

International players rarely live up to the hype so don't knock DA for passing. Every time I see us projected to draft Hezonja or Przingis I cringe.

I agree their have been alot of super hyped Euro busts in the past. Most of these guys where teenagers who where not producing in major Euro leagues but had alot of hype around their potential. IE Darko, Tskitishvili. Darko was playing in the Serbian league prior to being drafted and averaging 9pt 6rb, Tskitishvili played 17 games in italian league for 12mpg averaging 6pt 1rb the season before being drafted #5.

Prozingis and Hezonja do not fit this typical over hyped bust profile. Both play in the ACB the second best league in the world and are productive as teenagers. If in the NCAA they would be absolute stars.

Prozingis, 20 games 22mpg 10pts 5rb 1blk

Hezonja, 20 games  15mpg 5pts 2rb (getting more time and putting up big numbers lately)

TP. Porzingis and Hezonja would be top 5 picks if they played in the NCAA. Greece's 2nd division is a weak league, and the Italian Legga has never been the same since the 80s, but the ACB is another animal.

Hezonja has the physical tools and a great jumpshot, but I'm not sold on his defense. Kid deserves some credit, though, he's playing with Barcelona who is a perennial Euroleague contender and he's taking advantage of his opportunities playing at SG while Navarro and Oleson are out with injuries. At 6'8, he's huge for a SG in Europe... and in the NBA.

Porzingis reminds me of young Pau Gasol, but skinnier. Outside the top 3-4, if he's available you should pick him up. He's been playing against the best in the ACB on an ultra young team like Sevilla. He and Willy Hernangomez are sensational young bigs, but that team is a mess, and sometimes they look fantastic but most of the time they're losing and not looking good.

Both Hezonja and Porzingis are better offensive players than Giannis, and they'll be picked at higher spots. And I'd love the Cs to use one of the late 2nd round picks to draft and stash Willy Hernangomez, just in case he develops into a great player when he goes back to Real Madrid. I think in 3 years he'll be the best C in Europe, in an old-school fashion, but I'm a fan of the kid 

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Guillermo-Hernangomez-7204/

[slightly biased bias fan]

He actually trade for Olynyk he didn't pass on Giannis, boston's pick was after bucks

[obnoxiousmime]

I agree that we don't need a new Giannis post every month and that we should just move on even though it still hurts. However, I don't understand this argument that Danny "made the right decision based on the information he had at the time." Isn't that what GMs always do? So no GM can be criticized for taking the safer option?

Maybe the Bucks had better scouting and to them, Giannis wasn't a total wild card. In fact, you could argue that Olynyk's established lack of athleticism made him a bigger risk to succeed in the league. College juniors and seniors go bust all the time despite their supposed "safeness."

Finally, it's ridiculous to judge GMs based on what we fans or even the so-called "experts" thought about their value or risk level or ability. NBA GMs are not going by the same information we are. When somebody says, "nobody thought he was going to be good" you are just talking about what the media has written, not what teams actually thought in the draft room. Why aren't we allowed to judge Ainge by a higher standard?

I like Ainge and I'm not bashing him. Not taking Giannis was still a missed opportunity though.

[boscel33]

That ship has sailed ....new day .....

I'm satisfied with KO ."you are not ...that's fine ......move on.

What would you have Danny do?  Do you want a public shaming ......I don't get the beating a dead horse .  Right or wrong it's done.....already 

Serious grow up.

Lol, amen.  Kelly's stats are very similar 11/5 vs 12/6.  Kelly may be a little more awkward, but I'm satisfied.

[boscel33]

He actually trade for Olynyk he didn't pass on Giannis, boston's pick was after bucks

Great point! TP

[clover]

He actually trade for Olynyk he didn't pass on Giannis, boston's pick was after bucks

Great point! TP

Not really--he traded up in order to get KO, and could have at that time taken Giannis instead.

[clover]

That ship has sailed ....new day .....

I'm satisfied with KO ."you are not ...that's fine ......move on.

What would you have Danny do?  Do you want a public shaming ......I don't get the beating a dead horse .  Right or wrong it's done.....already 

Serious grow up.

Lol, amen.  Kelly's stats are very similar 11/5 vs 12/6.  Kelly may be a little more awkward, but I'm satisfied.

I'm hoping this debate rages for years, as it will mean that KO And GA are close in poductivity and value.

I think that's actually a fairly likely scenario, too.

[hwangjini_1]

Giannis was a lottery ticket. During the draft he was a full two inches smaller and had been playing in the Greek third division. There is no way any GM could have looked at him and know with any sort of confidence that he'd be a success.

Unfortunately for us it turns out that he's a lottery ticket that paid off. Still, just because someone else hit the jackpot doesn't mean you criticize the guy that decided he'd rather have a dozen eggs and some milk to last himself through the week instead.

We should tell this to Portland when they took oden over durant and Bowie over Jordan
At least they had Roy, Aldridge and Lilllard

While I am not going to criticize DA for making the best choice at the time, this is not exactly very comforting.  If he indeed the guys goes on to be a star, then mistake or not, the olynyk choice is one that will go down in infamy (just likes those you mentioned).

and if olly pans out as a good player and antetokounmpo turns out to be just another nba player, then danny is genius.

but you know what? we dont know which of the above will happen. or even if either of the above will happen. this is year two of both of their careers and i do not see why so many on this board are dead-set determined to cast a final and deciding judgement on this issue now.

based on per 36, olly scores 16.3/g and 7.9 rbs/g with 2.5 asst/g and 35.3% 3 pts shooting.
based on per 36, anty scores 14.6/g and 8  rbs/g with 3.0 asst/g and 16.7% 3 pt shooting.

pretty comparable stats at this stage of their career.

how about this? let's wait and see what happens over the next few years and then revisit this thread. maybe by then we will have an actual answer.

[Celtics4ever]

I would have liked Deing, I never wanted KO, I thought he was slow and soft.

[Vermont Green]

So the criticism of Danny is that he didn't pick a player that has the potential to be better than the player he did pick at some time in the future.  So far, Olynyk has actually been the more productive player.

I think Danny may be more inclined in the future to take chances on draft picks because he has so many but drafting is hard.  Taking risks and ending up with bad draft picks can really hurt a team.  I have no problem with Danny taking Olynyk.  After two seasons, you still cannot say with certainty which player will have the better career.

[tazzmaniac]

That ship has sailed ....new day .....

I'm satisfied with KO ."you are not ...that's fine ......move on.

What would you have Danny do?  Do you want a public shaming ......I don't get the beating a dead horse .  Right or wrong it's done.....already 

Serious grow up.

Lol, amen.  Kelly's stats are very similar 11/5 vs 12/6.  Kelly may be a little more awkward, but I'm satisfied.

I'm hoping this debate rages for years, as it will mean that KO And GA are close in poductivity and value.

I think that's actually a fairly likely scenario, too.

I doubt it.  GA has already established himself as a NBA starter in his 2nd season just having turned 20.  He is still raw though and I expect to see significant development over the next couple years.  The comparisons between KO and GA ignore the defensive side of the ball.  KO is a terrible defender and needs to make significant improvement before I'd consider starting him.  I think GA is clearly the better player now and almost certainly will be in the future. 

Here's a good article on GA. 
http://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/steve_aschburner/02/11/all-star-2014-giannis-antetokounmpo-milwaukee-bucks-emerging-as-bona-fide-nba-star/index.html

[clover]

That ship has sailed ....new day .....

I'm satisfied with KO ."you are not ...that's fine ......move on.

What would you have Danny do?  Do you want a public shaming ......I don't get the beating a dead horse .  Right or wrong it's done.....already 

Serious grow up.

Lol, amen.  Kelly's stats are very similar 11/5 vs 12/6.  Kelly may be a little more awkward, but I'm satisfied.

I'm hoping this debate rages for years, as it will mean that KO And GA are close in poductivity and value.

I think that's actually a fairly likely scenario, too.

I doubt it.  GA has already established himself as a NBA starter in his 2nd season just having turned 20.  He is still raw though and I expect to see significant development over the next couple years.  The comparisons between KO and GA ignore the defensive side of the ball.  KO is a terrible defender and needs to make significant improvement before I'd consider starting him.  I think GA is clearly the better player now and almost certainly will be in the future. 

Here's a good article on GA. 
http://www.nba.com/2015/news/features/steve_aschburner/02/11/all-star-2014-giannis-antetokounmpo-milwaukee-bucks-emerging-as-bona-fide-nba-star/index.html

KO is already not a terrible defender. He's got the highest net +/- on the team this year and by Basketball Reference's formula is tied with Wallace for the best defensive rating on the team--despite still learning and playing out of position down low as a C.

But yeah, I think there's less question that Giannis is going to be very good and he's younger and more valuable right now.

We would have been better off if Danny had taken him.

[tazzmaniac]

So the criticism of Danny is that he didn't pick a player that has the potential to be better than the player he did pick at some time in the future.  So far, Olynyk has actually been the more productive player.

I think Danny may be more inclined in the future to take chances on draft picks because he has so many but drafting is hard.  Taking risks and ending up with bad draft picks can really hurt a team.  I have no problem with Danny taking Olynyk.  After two seasons, you still cannot say with certainty which player will have the better career.

I disagree.  Playing it safe and ending up with a bunch of mediocre players is worse.  We're not talking about blowing a top 5 pick or even a top 10 pick.  Missing on the 13th pick in the draft isn't going to seriously hurt a team.  GA is the better overall player now and, barring injury, I think its pretty certain that GA will have the better career.