Celticmania Draft Prospect Ratings

[e4sym0de]

appreciate your post. I would like to suggest that you add the position of the prospects behind their name.

[CFAN38]

Nice job alot of work put in there.

My one criticism is that I feel your overly positive and optimistic. At this point watching prospects many people fall into the same boat. This lowest individual ranking I see you giving is a 6.5 for Turners Athleticism.

To me a ranking system needs better defined.

Example Big man Athleticism (run, jump and lateral)

1. College Stiff  3 Average college big    5 Average NBA athlete    10 Elite (prime D Howard)

If this is the case I would rank the current Cs big athletically as follows

Sully 5
KO 5
Zeller 6
Bass 7

Going on that scale Turner is prob a 5, Okafor a 6, WCS a 9, Towns a 7, Harrell a 7.5

This change in scale should bring everyone down. You currently have most of the top ten as potential allstars.

You might even say Sully and KO are below average NBA athletes.

I put them at average because I factored in their size. KO moves well for a true 7fter. If you took all the guys in college basketball who are his size and where to test them for vert, sprint and  agility im sure he would be in the top 1/3 making him an NBA level athlete. Now do the same test with every 7fter in the NBA KO would prob be in the bottom 3rd. I would think the same would hold true from Sully when compared to other wide body PFs.

Length also goes along way in altering perceived athleticism. Give KO a 7' wingspan and not his t-rex like 6'8 and he would seem more athletic. Particularly finishing around the hoop. A player like Durant is probably a 6 on my athletic scale but plays like an 8 with his extreme length.

[arctic 3.0]

Didn't read whole thread so apologies if this has been covered.
I think we are in good shape to land the player we need even I'd we draft in the 7-10 range.
WCS is an athletic defensive anchor who will likely be available as others will draft flashier players.
I'd go so far as to draft him as high as the 4th pick.

[TheTruthFot18]

Didn't read whole thread so apologies if this has been covered.
I think we are in good shape to land the player we need even I'd we draft in the 7-10 range.
WCS is an athletic defensive anchor who will likely be available as others will draft flashier players.
I'd go so far as to draft him as high as the 4th pick.

This is how I see it. TP

I'm thinking realistically we can land as low as the 3rd/4th pick in which I'm torn between Johnson, Towns, and Turner depending on what need we want to address first. More likely though I see us with the 5th-7th pick and getting WCS or Winslow.

If we don't get a top 5 pick I say just get WCS even if we have to move up from 6 or 7.

[Smartacus]

Didn't read whole thread so apologies if this has been covered.
I think we are in good shape to land the player we need even I'd we draft in the 7-10 range.
WCS is an athletic defensive anchor who will likely be available as others will draft flashier players.
I'd go so far as to draft him as high as the 4th pick.

This is how I see it. TP

I'm thinking realistically we can land as low as the 3rd/4th pick in which I'm torn between Johnson, Towns, and Turner depending on what need we want to address first. More likely though I see us with the 5th-7th pick and getting WCS or Winslow.

If we don't get a top 5 pick I say just get WCS even if we have to move up from 6 or 7.

Would not want to be the GM that has to choose between Stanley Johnson and Towns. That's the type of pick that will cement a GMs drafting legacy.

Either Towns burns out and you look back and think what could have been with Stanley Johnson or you pick Johnson, he ends up being good, not great(13,7) meanwhile Towns is averaging 19,10,2,2,1 on 2the made 3s per game.

Potential career defining pick.

[tazzmaniac]

6.Kristaps Porzingis:
Size: 9 (7'0 tall, long wingspan, would be ten if he wasnt so skinny)
Offense: 9 (can shoot, drive, dribble, all around offensive star, rare skills for 7 footer)
Defense: 8 (really good shoot blocker: 1.3 per 20 in 14 Eurocup games, gets pints taken away because he's going to get bullied in NBA)
Athleticism: 8.75 (mobile, runs the floor like deer, plays above rim)
Potential: 9.25 (very rare combo of skills, can be special)
Shooting: 9 (44% from three in Eurocup)
IQ/Intangibles:8.5 (seems like good kid in interview i watched, made a few bad turnovers in the 3 games i watched)
Risk: 8 (may not translate to NBA which is always a risk for Euro players, if he doesn't gain weight he can just be another Jajuan Johnson)
Rebounding: 7.25 (pretty bad not awful for a 7 footer, should dominate boards with length in athleticism... 4.1 in 21 minutes per in eurocup)
Passing: 7.75 (small sample size, didnt have an assist in a couple of the games i watched)
OVERALL:84.5 B (potential all-star)
*note:only watched him play 3 times, but he was impressive

7.Mario Hezonja:
Size: 9.5 (6'8 2 guard !!)
Offense:9 (can shoot from anywhere on the floor, good at creating separation, good first step)
Defense: 7.5 (should be elite but shows extremely poor effort, should be a 6 but he's just so athletic)
Athleticism: 9.25 (unbelievable Euro athlete, not quite Wiggins who is a 10 but pretty impressive)
Potential: 9 (has all the tools, good scorer)
Shooting: 9 (44% 3 pointers in 19 ACB games, just went 8-8 from 3)
IQ/Intangibles:7 (from what i've read he has an awful attitude, has bad body language, hes the only thing in his way to stardom)
Risk: 8.5 (most athletes who can shoot and dribble make it, must improve mentality though)
Rebounding:7.25 (only 2.2 per 17.7 minutes, should get more based on hops)
Passing:8.5 (good passer, nice in pick&roll, doesnt handle the ball alot for Barcelona so relatively low assist numbers)
OVERALL: 84.5 B (potential all-star)
*note:small sample size, based on the 6 Barcelona games i watched this year

8.Kelly Oubre:
Size: 9 (6'7 7'2 wingspan !!!)
Offense: 8.75 (smooth, good instincts, must improve in half-court one-on-one situations but has the skills)
Defense: 7.5 (lazy sometimes, not a great understanding of team defense which led to him not playing much in the beginning of year , when focused i've seen him lock up, could be a 9.5 defensively with his tools)
Athleticism: 9.25 (very impressive, dunks with authority, great run/jump)
Potential: 9 (good shooter and super athletic)
Shooting: 9 (39% from 3, always shoots in motion, quick release)
IQ/Intangibles: 7.75 (not a high IQ guy, not always locked in)
Risk: 8.75 (he can shoot, he's athletic)
Rebounding:8 (pretty good could be better)
Passing:7.5 (not much of a creator )
OVERALL: 84.5 B (potential all-star)

9.Myles Turner
Size:9 (6'11 7'4 wingspan for a PF/C but a little thin)
Offense: 9 (great face-up/perimeter skills but nothing in the paint)
Defense: 9 (outstanding shot blocker but docked a point because he wont be able to guard pick and roll)
Athleticism:6.5 (very awkward and slow runner, not over explosive)
Potential: 8.75 (rarely see his combo of skills, athletic limitation hold him back a little)
Shooting:9 (outstanding for a big 86% from free throw)
IQ/Intangibles:9 (very humble and well-spoken, soft though)
Risk: 8.5 (good kid and at least going to be a floor spacer and rim protector)
Rebounding: 8.25 ( pretty good, not great)
Passing: 7 (makes right play, hasnt created for others that much)
OVERALL: 84 B (NBA starter/potential all-star)


10.Willie Cauley-Stein:
Size: 9 (legit 7 footer, not super long 7'2 wingspan)
Offense: 7 (fairly limited but he can catch and dunk)
Defense: 9 (could become elite shoot blocker due to athleticism 1.8 blocks in 25 minutes..not outstanding statistically for college but very good, 1.6 steals per)
Athleticism: 9.5 (as good a seven footer athletically ive seen, super fast, good bounce, fluid, not powerful though)
Potential:  8 (athleticism always means potential but probably never going to be an offensive threat)
Shooting: 6.5 (nothing outside the paint)
IQ/Intangibles:7.75
Risk: 8.5 ( if you're expecting a big man who runs the floor, finishes when he gets the ball, and makes an impact defensively he'll deliver)
Rebounding: 8.5 (7.1 in 25 minutes, pretty good)
Passing:7
OVERALL: 81 B- (NBA starter)

I wouldn't rate Turner that high.  He is extremely raw and would do better to go back to college for another year.  I question your defense rating of him.  In yesterday's game, Ibeh was being switched in for defense purposes at the end of the game.

[tazzmaniac]

Didn't read whole thread so apologies if this has been covered.
I think we are in good shape to land the player we need even I'd we draft in the 7-10 range.
WCS is an athletic defensive anchor who will likely be available as others will draft flashier players.
I'd go so far as to draft him as high as the 4th pick.

This is how I see it. TP

I'm thinking realistically we can land as low as the 3rd/4th pick in which I'm torn between Johnson, Towns, and Turner depending on what need we want to address first. More likely though I see us with the 5th-7th pick and getting WCS or Winslow.

If we don't get a top 5 pick I say just get WCS even if we have to move up from 6 or 7.

Would not want to be the GM that has to choose between Stanley Johnson and Towns. That's the type of pick that will cement a GMs drafting legacy.

Either Towns burns out and you look back and think what could have been with Stanley Johnson or you pick Johnson, he ends up being good, not great(13,7) meanwhile Towns is averaging 19,10,2,2,1 on 2the made 3s per game.

Potential career defining pick.

Every time I watch Johnson, I like what I see.  He's such an all around productive player.  Great defender with great motor.  Very good, active rebounder.  He has a well rounded offense.  He's only a freshman but he's already a leader.  He's everything I wanted Jeff Green to be.  Towns has mostly left me unimpressed but then he'll show some flash of his potential.  He has been more aggressive and productive lately so maybe he's turned a corner.  I'm not that sold on Okafor.  If Towns finishes the season strong, I might even put him #1.   

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Will it be too much to ask for a Justice Winslow breakdown?

I'm really high on that kid.

[celticmania]

Will it be too much to ask for a Justice Winslow breakdown?

I'm really high on that kid.

He huge has potential. Reminds me alot of James Harden.. Nowhere as polished offensively (yet.) He just moves exactly like James Harden. His jumper is inconsistent but i think he is going to be a good shooter. Hes a terrific athlete abilities and he has lock down defender potential. I see James Harden like i said and a little bit of Andre Iguadola. He has a few years to go, but could end up being an elite two-way player. Had a really bad stretch a few weeks ago but is starting to pick it up. If he keeps playing like he did last night, I think he's a top 5 pick.

[Yoki_IsTheName]

Will it be too much to ask for a Justice Winslow breakdown?

I'm really high on that kid.

He huge has potential. Reminds me alot of James Harden.. Nowhere as polished offensively (yet.) He just moves exactly like James Harden. His jumper is inconsistent but i think he is going to be a good shooter. Hes a terrific athlete abilities and he has lock down defender potential. I see James Harden like i said and a little bit of Andre Iguadola. He has a few years to go, but could end up being an elite two-way player. Had a really bad stretch a few weeks ago but is starting to pick it up. If he keeps playing like he did last night, I think he's a top 5 pick.

I have read that he can be a defensive prodigy. He is freakish athletic right? If offense is his problem, then that's not as much a problem.

I'd take a defensive wing if I can.

[celticmania]

Will it be too much to ask for a Justice Winslow breakdown?

I'm really high on that kid.

He huge has potential. Reminds me alot of James Harden.. Nowhere as polished offensively (yet.) He just moves exactly like James Harden. His jumper is inconsistent but i think he is going to be a good shooter. Hes a terrific athlete abilities and he has lock down defender potential. I see James Harden like i said and a little bit of Andre Iguadola. He has a few years to go, but could end up being an elite two-way player. Had a really bad stretch a few weeks ago but is starting to pick it up. If he keeps playing like he did last night, I think he's a top 5 pick.

I have read that he can be a defensive prodigy. He is freakish athletic right? If offense is his problem, then that's not as much a problem.

I'd take a defensive wing if I can.

He's very similar to Stanley Johnson. I actually had him ahead of Johnson before he hit the freshman wall. Not as powerful but more fluid than Johnson. Both going to be very good defenders. I think Winslow can be a better scorer.

[HomerSapien]

I wouldn't rate Turner that high.  He is extremely raw and would do better to go back to college for another year.  I question your defense rating of him.  In yesterday's game, Ibeh was being switched in for defense purposes at the end of the game.

I think Turner is the most divisive player in this year's draft.  I could easily see him as a complete bust, but also wouldn't be shocked if in 5 years he's one of the 3 - 5 best players from this draft.

I disagree about returning to college though.  If he is emotionally mature enough to handle being in the NBA, and B) expects to be a lottery pick I think he should go pro.  I think big guys should make the leap to the NBA system sooner rather than later, so that they can learn professional defensive fundamentals and work with expert trainers to help them shape their bodies for the physical rigors of the NBA, and to practice against the right level of competition.

[tazzmaniac]

I wouldn't rate Turner that high.  He is extremely raw and would do better to go back to college for another year.  I question your defense rating of him.  In yesterday's game, Ibeh was being switched in for defense purposes at the end of the game.

I think Turner is the most divisive player in this year's draft.  I could easily see him as a complete bust, but also wouldn't be shocked if in 5 years he's one of the 3 - 5 best players from this draft.

I disagree about returning to college though.  If he is emotionally mature enough to handle being in the NBA, and B) expects to be a lottery pick I think he should go pro.  I think big guys should make the leap to the NBA system sooner rather than later, so that they can learn professional defensive fundamentals and work with expert trainers to help them shape their bodies for the physical rigors of the NBA, and to practice against the right level of competition.

From his perspective, he probably should turn pro if he meets the criteria you suggest.  If he returns to college and doesn't improve significantly, he'd probably end up as a late 1st pick at best.  Right now I only see Turner as having a modest upside and a significant bust potential.  I definitely wouldn't use a top 10 pick on him. 

[jonaslopes]

I wouldn't rate Turner that high.  He is extremely raw and would do better to go back to college for another year.  I question your defense rating of him.  In yesterday's game, Ibeh was being switched in for defense purposes at the end of the game.

I think Turner is the most divisive player in this year's draft.  I could easily see him as a complete bust, but also wouldn't be shocked if in 5 years he's one of the 3 - 5 best players from this draft.

Agreed. I'm not sure about Turner. He was bad against Kentucky and after a lot of people went against him, but I don't know, he is VERY young. Have some doubts about his body and I don't know if I'd draft him, but sometimes I think his ceiling may be much higher than WCS's.

[tazzmaniac]

Will it be too much to ask for a Justice Winslow breakdown?

I'm really high on that kid.

He huge has potential. Reminds me alot of James Harden.. Nowhere as polished offensively (yet.) He just moves exactly like James Harden. His jumper is inconsistent but i think he is going to be a good shooter. Hes a terrific athlete abilities and he has lock down defender potential. I see James Harden like i said and a little bit of Andre Iguadola. He has a few years to go, but could end up being an elite two-way player. Had a really bad stretch a few weeks ago but is starting to pick it up. If he keeps playing like he did last night, I think he's a top 5 pick.

I have read that he can be a defensive prodigy. He is freakish athletic right? If offense is his problem, then that's not as much a problem.

I'd take a defensive wing if I can.

He's very similar to Stanley Johnson. I actually had him ahead of Johnson before he hit the freshman wall. Not as powerful but more fluid than Johnson. Both going to be very good defenders. I think Winslow can be a better scorer.

I like them both but prefer Johnson.  Why do you think Winslow can be a better scorer?  Johnson can hit 3s, drives well to the basket but also hits the pull-up mid range jumper quite well.  He's also active on the offensive boards.