#DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)

[Donoghus]

If I was Kraft, I'd be peeved too.  That's multiple leaks that make his organization look bad.  Both, seemingly, coming from the NFL. 

That press conference certainly sounded like he was going all in that the Pats are innocent of any wrongdoing.  Awfully ballsy thing to do if you're lying.

Yeah, but people do it all the time (see Lance Armstrong, Roger Clemens, etc.).  Kraft didn't come off credible at all.  In fact no one has come off as credible for the Patriots.  (For the record, I am not a Patriots, Colts, or Seahawks fan so I could really care less about this from that perspective).

lance, roger, bonds etc were all taking major PEDs and never would have never been harassed for something as minor as this. some of those drugs lance was taking that increase blood oxygen levels are actually life-threatening, your body can overheat, causing death. bonds and clemens were so jacked up on steroids that their body types changed.
the ball pressure thing is more equivalent to if bonds had used illegal batting gloves or lance wore an illegal knee brace or something stupid like that. the league would tell them to stop doing it, the media would ignore it, and then it would be forgotten.
if this is the worst thing the patriots have (possibly) done, then that's pretty tame, the vikings and panthers were caught illegally tampering with balls this year and got no penalty, and the story didn't even really make the news.

This is a point I've brought up a couple times, and I don't know why the Patriots haven't brought it up. Brady, Belichick, Kraft, and every other Patriots defender should be demanding to know how the Vikings AND the Panthers could break the rules ON NATIONAL TV and not get punished, or investigated, or publicly excoriated. This ball-heating incident was such a nonevent, in fact, that I didn't hear about it until AFTER the Patriots kerfuffle. Ridiculous.

Why should they?  Pointing the fingers at other teams and saying "they're doing it too" or whatever just comes across as trying to deflect attention away. 

Addressing this thing head on and professing innocence is a much better approach then whining about teams' questionable tactics.

[BballTim]

Very interesting article that certainly doesn't paint the Patriots in a very good light.

Makes it look like this isn't just an issue for this season.

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/2015/the-new-england-patriots-mysteriously-became-fumble-proof-in-2007

This article is not interesting. It is an insult to anyone (apparently not you) who has any idea how hard the Pats work at minimizing fumbles.  Not just in practices.  Punishing players (e.g. Ridley) who dare to lose possession just once.

  I think you'd have a hard time convincing people that BB cares significantly more about reducing turnovers than other coaches do, or that he cares significantly more about reducing turnovers than he did prior to 2007.

  Shouldn't the league supply all of the footballs, and shouldn't both teams play with the same footballs? They're setting themselves up for issues like this.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

If I was Kraft, I'd be peeved too.  That's multiple leaks that make his organization look bad.  Both, seemingly, coming from the NFL. 

That press conference certainly sounded like he was going all in that the Pats are innocent of any wrongdoing.  Awfully ballsy thing to do if you're lying.

Yeah, but people do it all the time (see Lance Armstrong, Roger Clemens, etc.).  Kraft didn't come off credible at all.  In fact no one has come off as credible for the Patriots.  (For the record, I am not a Patriots, Colts, or Seahawks fan so I could really care less about this from that perspective).

lance, roger, bonds etc were all taking major PEDs and never would have never been harassed for something as minor as this. some of those drugs lance was taking that increase blood oxygen levels are actually life-threatening, your body can overheat, causing death. bonds and clemens were so jacked up on steroids that their body types changed.
the ball pressure thing is more equivalent to if bonds had used illegal batting gloves or lance wore an illegal knee brace or something stupid like that. the league would tell them to stop doing it, the media would ignore it, and then it would be forgotten.
if this is the worst thing the patriots have (possibly) done, then that's pretty tame, the vikings and panthers were caught illegally tampering with balls this year and got no penalty, and the story didn't even really make the news.

This is a point I've brought up a couple times, and I don't know why the Patriots haven't brought it up. Brady, Belichick, Kraft, and every other Patriots defender should be demanding to know how the Vikings AND the Panthers could break the rules ON NATIONAL TV and not get punished, or investigated, or publicly excoriated. This ball-heating incident was such a nonevent, in fact, that I didn't hear about it until AFTER the Patriots kerfuffle. Ridiculous.

Why should they?  Pointing the fingers at other teams and saying "they're doing it too" or whatever just comes across as trying to deflect attention away. 

Addressing this thing head on and professing innocence is a much better approach then whining about teams' questionable tactics.

Just seems like an obvious thing that someone would point out at some point: "Wait, you're enforcing this rule? After we saw the Vikings and Panthers heating up balls on the sidelines, we didn't think the NFL cared about this rule anymore."

[BballTim]

If I was Kraft, I'd be peeved too.  That's multiple leaks that make his organization look bad.  Both, seemingly, coming from the NFL. 

That press conference certainly sounded like he was going all in that the Pats are innocent of any wrongdoing.  Awfully ballsy thing to do if you're lying.

Yeah, but people do it all the time (see Lance Armstrong, Roger Clemens, etc.).  Kraft didn't come off credible at all.  In fact no one has come off as credible for the Patriots.  (For the record, I am not a Patriots, Colts, or Seahawks fan so I could really care less about this from that perspective).

lance, roger, bonds etc were all taking major PEDs and never would have never been harassed for something as minor as this. some of those drugs lance was taking that increase blood oxygen levels are actually life-threatening, your body can overheat, causing death. bonds and clemens were so jacked up on steroids that their body types changed.
the ball pressure thing is more equivalent to if bonds had used illegal batting gloves or lance wore an illegal knee brace or something stupid like that. the league would tell them to stop doing it, the media would ignore it, and then it would be forgotten.
if this is the worst thing the patriots have (possibly) done, then that's pretty tame, the vikings and panthers were caught illegally tampering with balls this year and got no penalty, and the story didn't even really make the news.

This is a point I've brought up a couple times, and I don't know why the Patriots haven't brought it up. Brady, Belichick, Kraft, and every other Patriots defender should be demanding to know how the Vikings AND the Panthers could break the rules ON NATIONAL TV and not get punished, or investigated, or publicly excoriated. This ball-heating incident was such a nonevent, in fact, that I didn't hear about it until AFTER the Patriots kerfuffle. Ridiculous.

Why should they?  Pointing the fingers at other teams and saying "they're doing it too" or whatever just comes across as trying to deflect attention away. 

Addressing this thing head on and professing innocence is a much better approach then whining about teams' questionable tactics.

  I agree, but if they supplied the balls and the balls were under-inflated, it's going to be hard to convince too many people of your innocence.

[Donoghus]

If I was Kraft, I'd be peeved too.  That's multiple leaks that make his organization look bad.  Both, seemingly, coming from the NFL. 

That press conference certainly sounded like he was going all in that the Pats are innocent of any wrongdoing.  Awfully ballsy thing to do if you're lying.

Yeah, but people do it all the time (see Lance Armstrong, Roger Clemens, etc.).  Kraft didn't come off credible at all.  In fact no one has come off as credible for the Patriots.  (For the record, I am not a Patriots, Colts, or Seahawks fan so I could really care less about this from that perspective).

lance, roger, bonds etc were all taking major PEDs and never would have never been harassed for something as minor as this. some of those drugs lance was taking that increase blood oxygen levels are actually life-threatening, your body can overheat, causing death. bonds and clemens were so jacked up on steroids that their body types changed.
the ball pressure thing is more equivalent to if bonds had used illegal batting gloves or lance wore an illegal knee brace or something stupid like that. the league would tell them to stop doing it, the media would ignore it, and then it would be forgotten.
if this is the worst thing the patriots have (possibly) done, then that's pretty tame, the vikings and panthers were caught illegally tampering with balls this year and got no penalty, and the story didn't even really make the news.

This is a point I've brought up a couple times, and I don't know why the Patriots haven't brought it up. Brady, Belichick, Kraft, and every other Patriots defender should be demanding to know how the Vikings AND the Panthers could break the rules ON NATIONAL TV and not get punished, or investigated, or publicly excoriated. This ball-heating incident was such a nonevent, in fact, that I didn't hear about it until AFTER the Patriots kerfuffle. Ridiculous.

Why should they?  Pointing the fingers at other teams and saying "they're doing it too" or whatever just comes across as trying to deflect attention away. 

Addressing this thing head on and professing innocence is a much better approach then whining about teams' questionable tactics.

Just seems like an obvious thing that someone would point out at some point: "Wait, you're enforcing this rule? After we saw the Vikings and Panthers heating up balls on the sidelines, we didn't think the NFL cared about this rule anymore."

The Vikings & Panthers were heating up balls.  The Patriots are alleged to have under-inflated footballs. 

Two different things. 

[Donoghus]

If I was Kraft, I'd be peeved too.  That's multiple leaks that make his organization look bad.  Both, seemingly, coming from the NFL. 

That press conference certainly sounded like he was going all in that the Pats are innocent of any wrongdoing.  Awfully ballsy thing to do if you're lying.

Yeah, but people do it all the time (see Lance Armstrong, Roger Clemens, etc.).  Kraft didn't come off credible at all.  In fact no one has come off as credible for the Patriots.  (For the record, I am not a Patriots, Colts, or Seahawks fan so I could really care less about this from that perspective).

lance, roger, bonds etc were all taking major PEDs and never would have never been harassed for something as minor as this. some of those drugs lance was taking that increase blood oxygen levels are actually life-threatening, your body can overheat, causing death. bonds and clemens were so jacked up on steroids that their body types changed.
the ball pressure thing is more equivalent to if bonds had used illegal batting gloves or lance wore an illegal knee brace or something stupid like that. the league would tell them to stop doing it, the media would ignore it, and then it would be forgotten.
if this is the worst thing the patriots have (possibly) done, then that's pretty tame, the vikings and panthers were caught illegally tampering with balls this year and got no penalty, and the story didn't even really make the news.

This is a point I've brought up a couple times, and I don't know why the Patriots haven't brought it up. Brady, Belichick, Kraft, and every other Patriots defender should be demanding to know how the Vikings AND the Panthers could break the rules ON NATIONAL TV and not get punished, or investigated, or publicly excoriated. This ball-heating incident was such a nonevent, in fact, that I didn't hear about it until AFTER the Patriots kerfuffle. Ridiculous.

Why should they?  Pointing the fingers at other teams and saying "they're doing it too" or whatever just comes across as trying to deflect attention away. 

Addressing this thing head on and professing innocence is a much better approach then whining about teams' questionable tactics.

  I agree, but if they supplied the balls and the balls were under-inflated, it's going to be hard to convince too many people of your innocence.

Well, yeah.  That's pretty apparent.  I don't think you're going to see anyone argue with that. 

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

If I was Kraft, I'd be peeved too.  That's multiple leaks that make his organization look bad.  Both, seemingly, coming from the NFL. 

That press conference certainly sounded like he was going all in that the Pats are innocent of any wrongdoing.  Awfully ballsy thing to do if you're lying.

Yeah, but people do it all the time (see Lance Armstrong, Roger Clemens, etc.).  Kraft didn't come off credible at all.  In fact no one has come off as credible for the Patriots.  (For the record, I am not a Patriots, Colts, or Seahawks fan so I could really care less about this from that perspective).

lance, roger, bonds etc were all taking major PEDs and never would have never been harassed for something as minor as this. some of those drugs lance was taking that increase blood oxygen levels are actually life-threatening, your body can overheat, causing death. bonds and clemens were so jacked up on steroids that their body types changed.
the ball pressure thing is more equivalent to if bonds had used illegal batting gloves or lance wore an illegal knee brace or something stupid like that. the league would tell them to stop doing it, the media would ignore it, and then it would be forgotten.
if this is the worst thing the patriots have (possibly) done, then that's pretty tame, the vikings and panthers were caught illegally tampering with balls this year and got no penalty, and the story didn't even really make the news.

This is a point I've brought up a couple times, and I don't know why the Patriots haven't brought it up. Brady, Belichick, Kraft, and every other Patriots defender should be demanding to know how the Vikings AND the Panthers could break the rules ON NATIONAL TV and not get punished, or investigated, or publicly excoriated. This ball-heating incident was such a nonevent, in fact, that I didn't hear about it until AFTER the Patriots kerfuffle. Ridiculous.

Why should they?  Pointing the fingers at other teams and saying "they're doing it too" or whatever just comes across as trying to deflect attention away. 

Addressing this thing head on and professing innocence is a much better approach then whining about teams' questionable tactics.

Just seems like an obvious thing that someone would point out at some point: "Wait, you're enforcing this rule? After we saw the Vikings and Panthers heating up balls on the sidelines, we didn't think the NFL cared about this rule anymore."

The Vikings & Panthers were heating up balls.  The Patriots are alleged to have under-inflated footballs. 

Two different things.

Different, yes, but both illegal according to the letter of the law. How can one be the subject of intense scrutiny and the other gets ignored?

[Donoghus]

If I was Kraft, I'd be peeved too.  That's multiple leaks that make his organization look bad.  Both, seemingly, coming from the NFL. 

That press conference certainly sounded like he was going all in that the Pats are innocent of any wrongdoing.  Awfully ballsy thing to do if you're lying.

Yeah, but people do it all the time (see Lance Armstrong, Roger Clemens, etc.).  Kraft didn't come off credible at all.  In fact no one has come off as credible for the Patriots.  (For the record, I am not a Patriots, Colts, or Seahawks fan so I could really care less about this from that perspective).

lance, roger, bonds etc were all taking major PEDs and never would have never been harassed for something as minor as this. some of those drugs lance was taking that increase blood oxygen levels are actually life-threatening, your body can overheat, causing death. bonds and clemens were so jacked up on steroids that their body types changed.
the ball pressure thing is more equivalent to if bonds had used illegal batting gloves or lance wore an illegal knee brace or something stupid like that. the league would tell them to stop doing it, the media would ignore it, and then it would be forgotten.
if this is the worst thing the patriots have (possibly) done, then that's pretty tame, the vikings and panthers were caught illegally tampering with balls this year and got no penalty, and the story didn't even really make the news.

This is a point I've brought up a couple times, and I don't know why the Patriots haven't brought it up. Brady, Belichick, Kraft, and every other Patriots defender should be demanding to know how the Vikings AND the Panthers could break the rules ON NATIONAL TV and not get punished, or investigated, or publicly excoriated. This ball-heating incident was such a nonevent, in fact, that I didn't hear about it until AFTER the Patriots kerfuffle. Ridiculous.

Why should they?  Pointing the fingers at other teams and saying "they're doing it too" or whatever just comes across as trying to deflect attention away. 

Addressing this thing head on and professing innocence is a much better approach then whining about teams' questionable tactics.

Just seems like an obvious thing that someone would point out at some point: "Wait, you're enforcing this rule? After we saw the Vikings and Panthers heating up balls on the sidelines, we didn't think the NFL cared about this rule anymore."

The Vikings & Panthers were heating up balls.  The Patriots are alleged to have under-inflated footballs. 

Two different things.

Different, yes, but both illegal according to the letter of the law. How can one be the subject of intense scrutiny and the other gets ignored?

Because there is a glaring double standard when it comes to the New England Patriots & a lot of other teams in the NFL.  Also, this is coming off a conference title game with the team advancing to the Super Bowl.  The other incidents occurred in the middle of the regular season

I've mentioned this before, if this was the Jacksonville Jaguars, you're not seeing nearly the same amount of media outrage.  But because it's Belichick & Brady and the Patriots, you get the witch hunt here.

Spygate & sustained success brought that about.  The first reason can be justified because the Pats brought that upon themselves & the latter is a lot of contempt rooted in jealousy.

[kozlodoev]

I agree, but if they supplied the balls and the balls were under-inflated, it's going to be hard to convince too many people of your innocence.

Except the officials are responsible for air pressure in all balls, so for all practical purposes they supplied them.

[Quetzalcoatl]

If I was Kraft, I'd be peeved too.  That's multiple leaks that make his organization look bad.  Both, seemingly, coming from the NFL. 

That press conference certainly sounded like he was going all in that the Pats are innocent of any wrongdoing.  Awfully ballsy thing to do if you're lying.

Yeah, but people do it all the time (see Lance Armstrong, Roger Clemens, etc.).  Kraft didn't come off credible at all.  In fact no one has come off as credible for the Patriots.  (For the record, I am not a Patriots, Colts, or Seahawks fan so I could really care less about this from that perspective).

lance, roger, bonds etc were all taking major PEDs and never would have never been harassed for something as minor as this. some of those drugs lance was taking that increase blood oxygen levels are actually life-threatening, your body can overheat, causing death. bonds and clemens were so jacked up on steroids that their body types changed.
the ball pressure thing is more equivalent to if bonds had used illegal batting gloves or lance wore an illegal knee brace or something stupid like that. the league would tell them to stop doing it, the media would ignore it, and then it would be forgotten.
if this is the worst thing the patriots have (possibly) done, then that's pretty tame, the vikings and panthers were caught illegally tampering with balls this year and got no penalty, and the story didn't even really make the news.

This is a point I've brought up a couple times, and I don't know why the Patriots haven't brought it up. Brady, Belichick, Kraft, and every other Patriots defender should be demanding to know how the Vikings AND the Panthers could break the rules ON NATIONAL TV and not get punished, or investigated, or publicly excoriated. This ball-heating incident was such a nonevent, in fact, that I didn't hear about it until AFTER the Patriots kerfuffle. Ridiculous.

Why should they?  Pointing the fingers at other teams and saying "they're doing it too" or whatever just comes across as trying to deflect attention away. 

Addressing this thing head on and professing innocence is a much better approach then whining about teams' questionable tactics.

Just seems like an obvious thing that someone would point out at some point: "Wait, you're enforcing this rule? After we saw the Vikings and Panthers heating up balls on the sidelines, we didn't think the NFL cared about this rule anymore."

The Vikings & Panthers were heating up balls.  The Patriots are alleged to have under-inflated footballs. 

Two different things.

Different, yes, but both illegal according to the letter of the law. How can one be the subject of intense scrutiny and the other gets ignored?

Unless the Ball Boy who didn't know there was going to be an investigation and routinely deflated 12 balls uniformly in under 90 seconds - not just his fastest time but routinely did this - then the Patriots didn't do anything.  They maybe submitted the balls underinflated, but if they did, it means that the game officials okayed them for use.  Either way, the Patriots are going to be cleared in the near future.  Attacking other teams would look like they're basically professing guilt at a time when they need to just hunker down.  They already have had their reputation destroyed by this and they most likely didn't even do anything, it's so frustrating

[kozlodoev]

Spygate & sustained success brought that about.  The first reason can be justified because the Pats brought that upon themselves & the latter is a lot of contempt rooted in jealousy.

I can't imagine any other logical reason that will lead to the sustained propagation of this narrative. Not in the presence of these (poached off some dude's post on TB's facebook page):

I have a question about the Patriots’ so-called “culture of cheating” that I would love an answer to from any other fans or media member:

To date, the Patriots were caught breaking one rule in their history, and that was a technical violation regarding WHERE teams are permitted to film from. That is it. That is the extent of the their “cheating.” So why does that qualify as a culture of cheating?

Why don’t the Broncos have a culture of cheating because of their salary cap violations that helped them win two super bowls?

Why don’t the Jets or Steelers have a culture of cheating because of their coaches and players on the sideline intentionally interfering with play on the field?

Why don’t the Seahawks have a culture of cheating based on the seemingly systemic program of PED use by their franchise, or because their coach was chased out of college football for cheating?

Why don’t the Browns have a culture of cheating for illegally communicating with the sideline during games?

Why don’t the Saints have a culture of cheating for illegally setting up a bounty system?

Why don’t the Colts have a culture of cheating for illegally piping in crowd noise while the opposing team is on offense?

Why don’t the Lions have a culture of cheating for repeatedly trying to injure opposing players while they are laying on the ground after plays?

Why don’t the Ravens have a culture of CRIME after harboring and covering up for a murderer, a drug trafficker and a wife beater?

Why do only the Patriots have a “culture of cheating?”

[fairweatherfan]

Because there is a glaring double standard when it comes to the New England Patriots & a lot of other teams in the NFL.  Also, this is coming off a conference title game with the team advancing to the Super Bowl.  The other incidents occurred in the middle of the regular season

I've mentioned this before, if this was the Jacksonville Jaguars, you're not seeing nearly the same amount of media outrage.  But because it's Belichick & Brady and the Patriots, you get the witch hunt here.

Spygate & sustained success brought that about.  The first reason can be justified because the Pats brought that upon themselves & the latter is a lot of contempt rooted in jealousy.

I don't really follow the NFL closely, but I've seen a very, very strong undercurrent both before and since this controversy that a lot of people around the league - not just fans - believe the Patriots have been systematically bending and breaking rules in a lot more ways than the ones they've been caught/alleged to be doing.  Whether it's accurate or not, based in jealousy or not, or a double standard or not, I can't say, but the impression seems to be very present when people think about the organization.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

Quetzalcoatl and Donoghus: I get what you're saying about whining and deflecting—that would look bad, so it should be avoided. Fine.

I also get that the Pats have a huge target on their backs because of Brady, Belichick, and extended success.

But this is clearly a double standard, postseason or not. The Pats are being lambasted because they allegedly broke a rule that shouldn't even exist, and that the NFL has never seemed much inclined to enforce, and that is no more serious a violation than warming up balls on the sideline during a game on national TV.

[Donoghus]

Quetzalcoatl and Donoghus: I get what you're saying about whining and deflecting—that would look bad, so it should be avoided. Fine.

I also get that the Pats have a huge target on their backs because of Brady, Belichick, and extended success.

But this is clearly a double standard, postseason or not. The Pats are being lambasted because they allegedly broke a rule that shouldn't even exist, and that the NFL has never seemed much inclined to enforce, and that is no more serious a violation than warming up balls on the sideline during a game on national TV.

Well, I think its a rule that should exist.  The parameters can certainly be worked out a bit (chain of custody of the balls, room temp to fill the balls, etc...) but I think there should be a minimum air pressure requirement for a football.  Like others have mentioned, the more deflated the ball, the easier it is to grip onto & catch.   In this instance, the difference has been compared to the weight of a dollar bill.   People aren't noticing that unless they're consciously looking for it, IMO.

I will agree that the media is making a mountain out of a molehill, though and the NFL isn't doing itself any favors with the leaks and relative silence on the matter.

[danglertx]

I hope this NFL investigation gets to the important questions, like; is 90 seconds long enough to urinate AND properly wash your hands afterwards?  Does Brady prefer a ball with a little bit of pee on it?  What about, did the ball boy dribble a little on the colt's footballs?  Did the guy sprinkle and if so, was he a sweetie and wipe the seatie?  These are the things the NFL should be investigating.