Author Topic: #DeflateGate (Court of Appeals Reinstates Suspension)  (Read 800933 times)

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Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #495 on: January 23, 2015, 12:48:18 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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On a separate note, there's also the possibility that the Pats inflate their game balls in a manner to make sure they'll lose some pressure when they go outside on cold days (which I think may be a reason why they haven't been fully forthcoming in describing the exact process of preparing their game balls). Is this an actual wrongdoing? It doesn't involve any tampering with the footballs after they have been approved by the officials.

To state the obvious, whether it is seen as wrongdoing or not will depend on whether you like the Patriots or not.

What? It's almost certainly wrongdoing. Whether or not it deserves sanctioning is another matter entirely.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #496 on: January 23, 2015, 12:50:35 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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On a separate note, there's also the possibility that the Pats inflate their game balls in a manner to make sure they'll lose some pressure when they go outside on cold days (which I think may be a reason why they haven't been fully forthcoming in describing the exact process of preparing their game balls). Is this an actual wrongdoing? It doesn't involve any tampering with the footballs after they have been approved by the officials.

To state the obvious, whether it is seen as wrongdoing or not will depend on whether you like the Patriots or not.
Of course. But to me, once previously approved balls hit the field, the refs are in charge. If they determine a ball has become nonconforming, they must replace it or bring it to conforming level.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #497 on: January 23, 2015, 12:53:05 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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On a separate note, there's also the possibility that the Pats inflate their game balls in a manner to make sure they'll lose some pressure when they go outside on cold days (which I think may be a reason why they haven't been fully forthcoming in describing the exact process of preparing their game balls). Is this an actual wrongdoing? It doesn't involve any tampering with the footballs after they have been approved by the officials.

To state the obvious, whether it is seen as wrongdoing or not will depend on whether you like the Patriots or not.

What? It's almost certainly wrongdoing. Whether or not it deserves sanctioning is another matter entirely.
Oh, it is? The rulebook says that the sole authority on whether a ball is conforming is the officiating crew -- this is true at inspection, and over the course of the game. Now you're randomly instilling additional due diligence on the team? On what grounds? If balls have not been tampered with after approval, there is no violation. At least not the way the rulebook is written right now.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #498 on: January 23, 2015, 01:01:35 PM »

Offline Cman

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On the lighter side,

Quote
Terry Hendrix, an inmate in a Colorado correctional facility, has filed an $88 billion — that's billion with a "B" — lawsuit against the NFL over the reversal [on Dez Bryant's catch against Green Bay]. The total figure is $88,987,654,321.88, with both 88s presumably a reference to Bryant's uniform number.

In his handwritten petition, Hendrix, a prisoner at Fremont Correctional Center in Cañon City, Colorado, seeks the money for reasons including but not limited to "for but not limited to: negligence, breach of fiduciary duty, and also wreckless [sic] disregard."

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/prisoner-sues-nfl-for--88-billion-over-dez-bryant-s-overturned-catch-154343589.html
Celtics fan for life.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #499 on: January 23, 2015, 01:18:03 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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On a separate note, there's also the possibility that the Pats inflate their game balls in a manner to make sure they'll lose some pressure when they go outside on cold days (which I think may be a reason why they haven't been fully forthcoming in describing the exact process of preparing their game balls). Is this an actual wrongdoing? It doesn't involve any tampering with the footballs after they have been approved by the officials.

To state the obvious, whether it is seen as wrongdoing or not will depend on whether you like the Patriots or not.

What? It's almost certainly wrongdoing. Whether or not it deserves sanctioning is another matter entirely.
Oh, it is? The rulebook says that the sole authority on whether a ball is conforming is the officiating crew -- this is true at inspection, and over the course of the game. Now you're randomly instilling additional due diligence on the team? On what grounds? If balls have not been tampered with after approval, there is no violation. At least not the way the rulebook is written right now.

Also known as the "it's only a crime if you get caught" mantra.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #500 on: January 23, 2015, 01:20:53 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Also known as the "it's only a crime if you get caught" mantra.
As opposed to beating the hell of out a football in a commercial dryer, which is apparently just fine.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #501 on: January 23, 2015, 01:23:42 PM »

Offline Jonny CC

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Some people thought the Celtics were cheating because they had a dead spot on the floor.  People will twist facts and believe what they want to believe.  The whole thing is silly.
Before a game on Christmas against the Pacers, Bird told Chuck Person that he had a present for him. During the game, Bird shot a 3-pointer in front of Person. Immediately after releasing the ball, Bird said to Person, "Merry F!#*ing Christmas!" and then the shot went in.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #502 on: January 23, 2015, 01:24:32 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #503 on: January 23, 2015, 01:26:19 PM »

Offline Jonny CC

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One question I have is...Did the refs actually check the psi of every ball or did they just do a Charmin squeeze test and say that they passed inspection?
Before a game on Christmas against the Pacers, Bird told Chuck Person that he had a present for him. During the game, Bird shot a 3-pointer in front of Person. Immediately after releasing the ball, Bird said to Person, "Merry F!#*ing Christmas!" and then the shot went in.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #504 on: January 23, 2015, 01:35:04 PM »

Offline Jonny CC

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http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/01/bill-belichick-deflategate-tom-brady-super-bowl-press-conference-blame

The incompetence of national media is really pathetic sometimes.  ::)

It's not as bad as another story on that site...

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/01/patriots-deflate-ball-super-bowl-disqualified-penalties-sanctions

Just a bunch of speculation and nonsense.  None of the refs could tell that the balls were underinflated and even D'Qwell Jackson said that he didn't notice any difference in the football. 
Before a game on Christmas against the Pacers, Bird told Chuck Person that he had a present for him. During the game, Bird shot a 3-pointer in front of Person. Immediately after releasing the ball, Bird said to Person, "Merry F!#*ing Christmas!" and then the shot went in.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #505 on: January 23, 2015, 01:53:02 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/01/bill-belichick-deflategate-tom-brady-super-bowl-press-conference-blame

The incompetence of national media is really pathetic sometimes.  ::)

It's not as bad as another story on that site...

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/01/patriots-deflate-ball-super-bowl-disqualified-penalties-sanctions

Just a bunch of speculation and nonsense.  None of the refs could tell that the balls were underinflated and even D'Qwell Jackson said that he didn't notice any difference in the football.
Same author. Why am I not surprised he thinks that the balls were "found to be two-to-three pounds lighter".  ::)
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #506 on: January 23, 2015, 01:58:49 PM »

Offline footey

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The refs were presented with balls and didn't do their due diligence in measuring the air. It's that simple, I think.


One of the major reasons I went with this theory is because of what Aaron Rogers said about over-inflating his footballs. The way he said it, suggested that sometimes he can sneak it by the refs who might just do a feel test instead of going the whole 9 yards with a gauge. Again, I think that's exactly what happened here. Brady presented his slightly under-inflated footballs to the refs, they gave it a feel test, and then said, "Good to go". Much to do about nothing.

Quote
Among the many people who had contact with the Patriots pigskin used in Sunday's AFC championship ? which were reportedly underinflated ? were the ball boys. And one former ball boy (who did not take part in Sunday's match) told NBC News that his goal was always to prepare the ball to the quarterback's preference and hope they passed inspection, and that it would have been very difficult to tamper with them afterward.

Eric Kester, who was a ball boy for the Chicago Bears in 2003, says he can't speculate about the controversy dubbed "Deflate-Gate," but he remembers how the preparation worked ? starting with the delivery of factory-fresh balls a few days before a game.

"We would then work with the quarterbacks to customize the balls to their liking. This involved scrubbing them with stiff horsehair brushes to rub off the leather's slippery silicone sheen, and occasionally inflating or deflating the balls a very small amount, which I believe is legal to a degree. Quarterbacks are very particular about the way a ball feels in their hand, and we worked meticulously to match their particular preferences," Kester said.

Two hours before kickoff, he would bring the balls to the referees' locker room for inspection.

"I recall them having a pressure gauge in the locker room, but most often they just squeezed the balls, turned them over in their hands a few times each, and inspected the laces. I don't recall them ever rejecting one of our balls," he said.

"My thought process was, 'Let's get the balls exactly the way our quarterback wants them, and if the refs reject one or two before the game, no big deal. But there's no harm giving them our ideal balls and hoping they make it through inspection.'"

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/super-bowl-xlix/deflate-gate-nfl-ball-boys-perspective-preparing-footballs-n290801

I agree. This is the crux of the issue. I have not read a single published report in which the NFL confirmed that the refs tested the PSI of each ball before the game. 

It is not the obligation of the team presenting the balls to the refs to guaranty that they are between 12.5 and 13.5 psi. It is the obligation of the refs to ensure that they are.  The team (i.e., the QB), picks out the balls he wants to use and hands them over to the refs for pre-testing before the game.

If anyone can point me to a published report that the PSI levels were tested before this game, please send me a link. I could not find any.

For those who don't believe Tom (Roy, etc.), if the NFL comes forward and says that the refs did not actually test the PSI levels before the game, would that change your view on whether or not it was likely that Brady was lying? Is Brady culpable if he approved a ball for use that was under inflated, if the protocol was not followed before the game of testing its PSI level?  Legitimate question, I feel.  I feel Mort's report on the balls lacked much important information, particularly this factor, and the fact that the NFL has remained silent about this issue (and has not even contacted Brady) makes me feel that the entire process of ball protection may not have been properly followed before the game.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #507 on: January 23, 2015, 02:03:23 PM »

Offline footey

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Some people thought the Celtics were cheating because they had a dead spot on the floor.  People will twist facts and believe what they want to believe.  The whole thing is silly.

Or would turn up the heat in visitors' locker room, e.g., 1984 vs. Lakers. It's cheating, but since it is not governed by any rules in a league rule book, it does not get the same attention.

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #508 on: January 23, 2015, 02:03:38 PM »

Offline JSD

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And out goes that theory:

Quote
According to an NFL source with direct knowledge of the situation, referee Walt Anderson inspected all 24 of the Patriots? footballs with a pressure gauge supplied by the league, as well as all 24 footballs from the Colts. All 48 footballs were found to be within the allowable range of 12.5-13.5 pounds per square inch.


http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/01/23/report-patriots-footballs-passed-pre-game-inspection-by-officials-deflategate/

Re: #DeflateGate
« Reply #509 on: January 23, 2015, 02:04:28 PM »

Offline JSD

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My new theory.

The calibration of the machine used to test the footballs was off. Haha. Am I reaching?

This becomes a much bigger story if Bill Bellichick and Tom Brady are lying...