Please Trade Sully!

[aingeforthree]

I like Sullinger but I have some issues with him this season.

He doesn't hustle on defense.  I think he can play some good defense but I am much happier with Olynyk for example because he hustles.  There are times where Sullinger just isn't making rotations to help on defense.  Pretty disappointing.

I like a lot of his offense but I think it's time to cut out a lot of those threes.

He's still good and cheap yes.  But right now if I was to trade one of our young prospect players out with picks to get someone it would be him.  I like Olynyk more and I hope we can get a real center.  We will see who we can get but I think he's a guy who will get paid and I don't know if I want to pay him.

He could come along very well.  He's a guy who will benefit a lot by getting in better shape and hustling consistently.  Just being more consistent in general.  Because he does have a lot of skill.  I'm just worried he won't.  We have a lot of needs.

You're seeing the same thing I have.  He also needs to use his large bottom and find a man on the defensive rebound side of things.  Too often he's letting people swing in from the outside and just relying on the ball coming straight to him.  USE YOUR BIG BODY BIG MAN !  It bugs the heck out of me.

I'm intrigued by what a Sullinger + Brooklyn pick + Boston's own pick could net Danny....I'm sure he's done it already, but I'd be scouring the league for Sullinger's value.

[KeepRondo]

Sully was moving pretty good on D. Best I've seen him with showing and then rotating back.

I will gladly eat my words if he plays D like this more often.

[Rosco917]

If you don't like Sully tonight, you never will.

He was playing like hell to keep up with the display of energy by Smart and Crowder.

[Rondo9]

I know Davis had a huge game (again), but Sullinger made him work and stayed and did a great job of defending without fouling.

[csfansince60s]

Sully was moving pretty good on D. Best I've seen him with showing and then rotating back.

I will gladly eat my words if he plays D like this more often.

+1...Prior to tonight, I was higher on Olynyk than Sully for a lot of the reasons that many folks here have enumerated both positively for Olynyk and negative for Sully.

I went to the game tonight, and I was completely turned around on that. I know, it was only one game, but what I saw from Olynyk/Zeller disgusted me. No passion, no fire, no burn in the belly, no hands up on D, no trying to grab (nevermind fight for) rebounds. NOTHING....even NO POINTS until well into the game (2nd half, I think?)

Granted, Sully had something to prove. I think the last time NO played us Davis dropped 40 and 20 on Sully. But Sully has two things that Olynyk  does not have: an attitude/fire in the belly and instincts for the game. Olynyk was playing defense with his hands, not his feet and his body. He picked up 3 fouls within what felt like a 3 minute span for exactly this reason. Too lazy to move his feet and poor anticipation of his opponent's

Crowder, Smart, Sully, Turner (sometimes to his detriment), Bradley, GWall and Bass play with passion, at least sometimes, and definitely tonight, even Thornton was aggressive.

Olynyk and Zeller didn't belong on the court tonight with those guys. Geez, Bass was playing center for a stretch of time because those guys sucked so badly and were in foul trouble becasue of their suckiness.

Keep Sully over them.

[Beat LA]

Sully was moving pretty good on D. Best I've seen him with showing and then rotating back.

I will gladly eat my words if he plays D like this more often.

+1...Prior to tonight, I was higher on Olynyk than Sully for a lot of the reasons that many folks here have enumerated both positively for Olynyk and negative for Sully.

I went to the game tonight, and I was completely turned around on that. I know, it was only one game, but what I saw from Olynyk/Zeller disgusted me. No passion, no fire, no burn in the belly, no hands up on D, no trying to grab (nevermind fight for) rebounds. NOTHING....even NO POINTS until well into the game (2nd half, I think?)

Granted, Sully had something to prove. I think the last time NO played us Davis dropped 40 and 20 on Sully. But Sully has two things that Olynyk  does not have: an attitude/fire in the belly and instincts for the game. Olynyk was playing defense with his hands, not his feet and his body. He picked up 3 fouls within what felt like a 3 minute span for exactly this reason. Too lazy to move his feet and poor anticipation of his opponent's

Crowder, Smart, Sully, Turner (sometimes to his detriment), Bradley, GWall and Bass play with passion, at least sometimes, and definitely tonight, even Thornton was aggressive.

Olynyk and Zeller didn't belong on the court tonight with those guys. Geez, Bass was playing center for a stretch of time because those guys sucked so badly and were in foul trouble becasue of their suckiness.

Keep Sully over them.

I wonder how a pf/c combo of Sully and Whiteside would have performed.  Sullinger still needs to lose A LOT of weight, lol , but I do like him a lot more when he POSTS UP instead of just chucking threes.  At least he CAN play inside, lol.   I can't remember the last time that KO has ever scored on a post up.  Has that even happened once this season?  Ugh.  Darn billy goats...

[csfansince60s]

Sully was moving pretty good on D. Best I've seen him with showing and then rotating back.

I will gladly eat my words if he plays D like this more often.

+1...Prior to tonight, I was higher on Olynyk than Sully for a lot of the reasons that many folks here have enumerated both positively for Olynyk and negative for Sully.

I went to the game tonight, and I was completely turned around on that. I know, it was only one game, but what I saw from Olynyk/Zeller disgusted me. No passion, no fire, no burn in the belly, no hands up on D, no trying to grab (nevermind fight for) rebounds. NOTHING....even NO POINTS until well into the game (2nd half, I think?)

Granted, Sully had something to prove. I think the last time NO played us Davis dropped 40 and 20 on Sully. But Sully has two things that Olynyk  does not have: an attitude/fire in the belly and instincts for the game. Olynyk was playing defense with his hands, not his feet and his body. He picked up 3 fouls within what felt like a 3 minute span for exactly this reason. Too lazy to move his feet and poor anticipation of his opponent's

Crowder, Smart, Sully, Turner (sometimes to his detriment), Bradley, GWall and Bass play with passion, at least sometimes, and definitely tonight, even Thornton was aggressive.

Olynyk and Zeller didn't belong on the court tonight with those guys. Geez, Bass was playing center for a stretch of time because those guys sucked so badly and were in foul trouble becasue of their suckiness.

Keep Sully over them.

I wonder how a pf/c combo of Sully and Whiteside would have performed.  Sullinger still needs to lose A LOT of weight, lol , but I do like him a lot more when he POSTS UP instead of just chucking threes.  At least he CAN play inside, lol.   I can't remember the last time that KO has ever scored on a post up.  Has that even happened once this season?  Ugh.  Darn billy goats...

You're right on all counts.

I think any long, athletic defender, like Whiteside, would be a great compliment to Sully.

Olynyk doesn't have the stomach nor the physical tools to bang inside. He plays really soft, especially for a 5, but even as a 4. At least Sully can and will bang. (As you alluded too, though, he's got to get a handle on the weight thing, though.)

[Celtics18]

Sully was moving pretty good on D. Best I've seen him with showing and then rotating back.

I will gladly eat my words if he plays D like this more often.

+1...Prior to tonight, I was higher on Olynyk than Sully for a lot of the reasons that many folks here have enumerated both positively for Olynyk and negative for Sully.

I went to the game tonight, and I was completely turned around on that. I know, it was only one game, but what I saw from Olynyk/Zeller disgusted me. No passion, no fire, no burn in the belly, no hands up on D, no trying to grab (nevermind fight for) rebounds. NOTHING....even NO POINTS until well into the game (2nd half, I think?)

Granted, Sully had something to prove. I think the last time NO played us Davis dropped 40 and 20 on Sully. But Sully has two things that Olynyk  does not have: an attitude/fire in the belly and instincts for the game. Olynyk was playing defense with his hands, not his feet and his body. He picked up 3 fouls within what felt like a 3 minute span for exactly this reason. Too lazy to move his feet and poor anticipation of his opponent's

Crowder, Smart, Sully, Turner (sometimes to his detriment), Bradley, GWall and Bass play with passion, at least sometimes, and definitely tonight, even Thornton was aggressive.

Olynyk and Zeller didn't belong on the court tonight with those guys. Geez, Bass was playing center for a stretch of time because those guys sucked so badly and were in foul trouble becasue of their suckiness.

Keep Sully over them.

Kelly and Zellie both stunk tonight. 

It happens.  They'll both have better nights. 

[tarheelsxxiii]

Never questioned keeping Sully over KO. He's a beast when he wants to be. And his limitations pale in comparison to KO's. I can't believe we moved up in a draft for him. I would've moved down and taken his cousin, Susie Olynyk.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Sully was moving pretty good on D. Best I've seen him with showing and then rotating back.

I will gladly eat my words if he plays D like this more often.

+1...Prior to tonight, I was higher on Olynyk than Sully for a lot of the reasons that many folks here have enumerated both positively for Olynyk and negative for Sully.

I went to the game tonight, and I was completely turned around on that. I know, it was only one game, but what I saw from Olynyk/Zeller disgusted me. No passion, no fire, no burn in the belly, no hands up on D, no trying to grab (nevermind fight for) rebounds. NOTHING....even NO POINTS until well into the game (2nd half, I think?)

Granted, Sully had something to prove. I think the last time NO played us Davis dropped 40 and 20 on Sully. But Sully has two things that Olynyk  does not have: an attitude/fire in the belly and instincts for the game. Olynyk was playing defense with his hands, not his feet and his body. He picked up 3 fouls within what felt like a 3 minute span for exactly this reason. Too lazy to move his feet and poor anticipation of his opponent's

Crowder, Smart, Sully, Turner (sometimes to his detriment), Bradley, GWall and Bass play with passion, at least sometimes, and definitely tonight, even Thornton was aggressive.

Olynyk and Zeller didn't belong on the court tonight with those guys. Geez, Bass was playing center for a stretch of time because those guys sucked so badly and were in foul trouble becasue of their suckiness.

Keep Sully over them.

The problem is that I have been to games where the exact opposite was true.  The arguments for trading Sully are:

a.) we'll probably get more for him than we'll get for Olly (unless Utah wants Klynyk  )
b.) he is undersized
c.) he is fat
d.) I don't think Sully or Olly will ever be a top 3 option on a championship caliber team
e.) Olly's game is better off the bench than starting, while Sully probably needs to start
f.) Olly could destroy basically any teams' benches as a 6th man at the trajectory his career is going, while Sully can beat up average teams' starters but stalls vs good teams.  I am not saying that one or the other won't surpass those roles, but that is where it seems like they're going

So basically, I think Sully fits the Rudy Gay / Jeff Green / Rondo mold of player where yeah they're good, but they're getting paid the same as someone who is more likely to help you win that are getting the same stats. 

For instance, imagine you are the GM and Coach of a team that for some crazy reason has Kawai Leonard, Jeff Green and Rudy Gay.  Which one are you starting? 

Imagine all three are on different teams right now and you are a GM that needs an SF and all 3 are available.   Right now, Rudy Gay is averaging 20.8 ppg / 4.2 apg / 6.1 rpg / , Green is averaging 17.6 ppg / 1.6 apg / 4.3 rpg and Kawai is averaging 15.3 ppg / 2.5 apg and 7.6 rpg.  They all are asking for the same salary.  Which one do you want?

Sully put up great numbers tonight, but he also put up terrible numbers two weeks ago for an extended period of time.  You have to look at a body of work and where you think that player will be in the future.  I don't see Sully carrying a team and he'll want a lot of money.

[jmen788]

If Sully played like he did last night consistently, then I wouldn't have started this thread haha. But his defense is still no good (Davis did score 34) and some of that is due to things you can't coach (length, speed, etc). I also fear that at some point his back will give out or he will get injured again. Unless he loses weight and starts doing this consistently (he is soooooo inconsistent!), then I think we ought to explore selling high on him. I just have doubts about his future.

[chambers]

The guy hasn't even had 3 full NBA seasons yet..

There's still time for him to progress. Remember he returned from his loooong time back injury less than a year ago.

His body will adjust as he builds muscle and stamina and he'll be coming up for contract soon enough- which will start to sink in that there are other people in his family/circle that need that juicy RFA contract just as much as he does.

Give him this offseason and a solid season playing PF. He's mostly played center in his short NBA career- and his numbers have been amazing compared to some current top 25 NBA players at the same age. He's only going to become a better shooter, understand his body, his go-to-moves etc...
He's playing his 3rd season and 1st season after major back surgery (corrective surgery) and has been arguably our MVP this season.

Next season will be his first full season as an NBA starting power forward... as long as they don't trade Zeller lol.

[chambers]

Sully was moving pretty good on D. Best I've seen him with showing and then rotating back.

I will gladly eat my words if he plays D like this more often.

+1...Prior to tonight, I was higher on Olynyk than Sully for a lot of the reasons that many folks here have enumerated both positively for Olynyk and negative for Sully.

I went to the game tonight, and I was completely turned around on that. I know, it was only one game, but what I saw from Olynyk/Zeller disgusted me. No passion, no fire, no burn in the belly, no hands up on D, no trying to grab (nevermind fight for) rebounds. NOTHING....even NO POINTS until well into the game (2nd half, I think?)

Granted, Sully had something to prove. I think the last time NO played us Davis dropped 40 and 20 on Sully. But Sully has two things that Olynyk  does not have: an attitude/fire in the belly and instincts for the game. Olynyk was playing defense with his hands, not his feet and his body. He picked up 3 fouls within what felt like a 3 minute span for exactly this reason. Too lazy to move his feet and poor anticipation of his opponent's

Crowder, Smart, Sully, Turner (sometimes to his detriment), Bradley, GWall and Bass play with passion, at least sometimes, and definitely tonight, even Thornton was aggressive.

Olynyk and Zeller didn't belong on the court tonight with those guys. Geez, Bass was playing center for a stretch of time because those guys sucked so badly and were in foul trouble becasue of their suckiness.

Keep Sully over them.

The problem is that I have been to games where the exact opposite was true.  The arguments for trading Sully are:

a.) we'll probably get more for him than we'll get for Olly (unless Utah wants Klynyk  )
b.) he is undersized
c.) he is fat
d.) I don't think Sully or Olly will ever be a top 3 option on a championship caliber team
e.) Olly's game is better off the bench than starting, while Sully probably needs to start
f.) Olly could destroy basically any teams' benches as a 6th man at the trajectory his career is going, while Sully can beat up average teams' starters but stalls vs good teams.  I am not saying that one or the other won't surpass those roles, but that is where it seems like they're going

So basically, I think Sully fits the Rudy Gay / Jeff Green / Rondo mold of player where yeah they're good, but they're getting paid the same as someone who is more likely to help you win that are getting the same stats. 

For instance, imagine you are the GM and Coach of a team that for some crazy reason has Kawai Leonard, Jeff Green and Rudy Gay.  Which one are you starting? 

Imagine all three are on different teams right now and you are a GM that needs an SF and all 3 are available.   Right now, Rudy Gay is averaging 20.8 ppg / 4.2 apg / 6.1 rpg / , Green is averaging 17.6 ppg / 1.6 apg / 4.3 rpg and Kawai is averaging 15.3 ppg / 2.5 apg and 7.6 rpg.  They all are asking for the same salary.  Which one do you want?

Sully put up great numbers tonight, but he also put up terrible numbers two weeks ago for an extended period of time.  You have to look at a body of work and where you think that player will be in the future.  I don't see Sully carrying a team and he'll want a lot of money.

*Third year player
*hasn't played natural NBA position for full season due to roster
*had first game since major back surgery less than one year ago. Like 6 months ago?
*Has better numbers than David West and Carlos Boozer in almost every statistic. Has similar numbers to Zac Randolph's 3rd season. All those guys are All Stars.
Already has better numbers than Taj Gibson- although Taj is a better defender, but is 7 years younger than Taj.

Has not had a full offseason to cut, exercise and work out at 100% since the surgery- basically came straight into summer league.

Now in referral to the bolded part of your post;
please refer to his 'work as a whole' because you're judging him off a bad 2 weeks in which two of his better friends on the team were traded and this team lost 7 of 8 games.

Check out his per 36 numbers compared to the top 10 PF's in the NBA in their third years.

[bobbyv]

I think Sully will be a great player when it's all said and done. I'd like him to be a ZBo banger though rather than a 3pt shooter like Love

[kozlodoev]

Has not had a full offseason to cut, exercise and work out at 100% since the surgery- basically came straight into summer league.

Oh please stop it.

I think Sully will be a great player when he loses about 30+ lbs.

Fixed that for you.