The league lacks superstar talent

[D.o.s.]

Simmons did a very good column a while ago on T-Mac, and in the midst of it there's a laundry list of the best players McGrady ever played with. I don't know if 'making the winning play' was his problem as much as staying healthy was.

Also, I think Dwight is more comparable to Vince/T-Mac, in that their athletic ability is/was just jaw-dropping. I don't see the Bosh comp.

Hmm maybe that's fair. I just go into a game where the Celtics are playing Dwight being terrified that he's going to get 20 rebounds and no one on the C's will score in the paint. With TMag I always felt like we could just put Pierce on him and he would make some shots but we'd be fine.

Thirdly, I don't really think of Duncan as a dominant player the same way Shaq was, even though he's probably the best PF in the history of the game.

Here's my point: I would consider Tim Duncan a great talent that is a head above most bigs in the NBA. There were a lot of guys like Ben Wallace who were average talents who were just really smart and competed their tails off, but comparing them to Duncan would have been laughable. Nowadays, the only freak big man who is elite is Dwight, and the elite bigs who are just smart, tough, competitive guys like Noah and Gasol are about as good as Dwight is.

That's true, but Dwight hasn't really been the same since his back surgery.

[Celtics4ever]

People always remember things more fondly, but the reality is the game of basketball has made tremendous strides recently.  The league may be stretched to a couple of unnecessary teams, but by and large the league is comprised of significantly better players today than of years prior.  There is more depth, more skill, more league wide balance, and just a better product on the whole.

I disagree, and   I challenge you to name your all time team, I bet it is not all guys from today.  I would wager it a lot of guys from the past.  That alone should prove the fallacy of your position.

BTW, I have DVDs of the Celtics in the 80s I speak of, so it is not just memory.   I can rewatch the past.   

Of course there were bad teams, but the league has bad conferences now!   Still think it is improved?

[D.o.s.]

People always remember things more fondly, but the reality is the game of basketball has made tremendous strides recently.  The league may be stretched to a couple of unnecessary teams, but by and large the league is comprised of significantly better players today than of years prior.  There is more depth, more skill, more league wide balance, and just a better product on the whole.

I disagree, and   I challenge you to name your all time team, I bet it is not all guys from today.  I would wager it a lot of guys from the past.  That alone should prove the fallacy of your position.

The bolded is brutally funny, particularly after you missed Moranis's point entirely.

I mean, you're really saying that picking an all-time team (which, by nature is going to bring out the best of the best) is going to measure the strength of the league as a whole era-to-era? That's fundamentally incorrect on the most basic level.

[Timdawgg]

Kobe had an interesting interview recently, where he stated the European youth are excelling in basketball over the American youth, because they are being taught true basics, and technique, and honest rules.

AAU ball is a big part of it, and parents urging kids to shoot every time they touch it.   These things definitely put "me" in team.

In a league, that lacks superstar talent, we are certainly without even a star now.


I think the basketball of the 80s was the best, the quality of the ball was better and top to bottom I think the league was more skilled.   Their are more athletes today but a lot of them cannot play.   However, each generation is marketed by the NBA as bigger and better than the last.   I would put forth that no generation was more skilled from players from 78-88  that includes many hall of famers.   Look at some of the recent drafts and the star potential is simply not there.

All you have to do is look at the 92 dream team...That team destroys any team, any era and probably always will even with half of the guys on the downside of their careers. That shows how much talent there was as mentioned from 78-88.

[Eja117]

Kobe had an interesting interview recently, where he stated the European youth are excelling in basketball over the American youth, because they are being taught true basics, and technique, and honest rules.

AAU ball is a big part of it, and parents urging kids to shoot every time they touch it.   These things definitely put "me" in team.

In a league, that lacks superstar talent, we are certainly without even a star now.


I think the basketball of the 80s was the best, the quality of the ball was better and top to bottom I think the league was more skilled.   Their are more athletes today but a lot of them cannot play.   However, each generation is marketed by the NBA as bigger and better than the last.   I would put forth that no generation was more skilled from players from 78-88  that includes many hall of famers.   Look at some of the recent drafts and the star potential is simply not there.

All you have to do is look at the 92 dream team...That team destroys any team, any era and probably always will even with half of the guys on the downside of their careers. That shows how much talent there was as mentioned from 78-88.

If you took Europe as a whole against the Dream Team I'm not sure what would have happened. I would love a US vs World All Star Game

[D.o.s.]

Kobe had an interesting interview recently, where he stated the European youth are excelling in basketball over the American youth, because they are being taught true basics, and technique, and honest rules.

AAU ball is a big part of it, and parents urging kids to shoot every time they touch it.   These things definitely put "me" in team.

In a league, that lacks superstar talent, we are certainly without even a star now.


I think the basketball of the 80s was the best, the quality of the ball was better and top to bottom I think the league was more skilled.   Their are more athletes today but a lot of them cannot play.   However, each generation is marketed by the NBA as bigger and better than the last.   I would put forth that no generation was more skilled from players from 78-88  that includes many hall of famers.   Look at some of the recent drafts and the star potential is simply not there.

All you have to do is look at the 92 dream team...That team destroys any team, any era and probably always will even with half of the guys on the downside of their careers. That shows how much talent there was as mentioned from 78-88.

That actually shows the opposite -- who's left in the 78-88 era NBA if you take out the Dream Team? The overall talent level was lower in the 70's and 80's, and that's even with the benefit of having a more condensed talent pool.

[Donoghus]

Kobe had an interesting interview recently, where he stated the European youth are excelling in basketball over the American youth, because they are being taught true basics, and technique, and honest rules.

AAU ball is a big part of it, and parents urging kids to shoot every time they touch it.   These things definitely put "me" in team.

In a league, that lacks superstar talent, we are certainly without even a star now.


I think the basketball of the 80s was the best, the quality of the ball was better and top to bottom I think the league was more skilled.   Their are more athletes today but a lot of them cannot play.   However, each generation is marketed by the NBA as bigger and better than the last.   I would put forth that no generation was more skilled from players from 78-88  that includes many hall of famers.   Look at some of the recent drafts and the star potential is simply not there.

All you have to do is look at the 92 dream team...That team destroys any team, any era and probably always will even with half of the guys on the downside of their careers. That shows how much talent there was as mentioned from 78-88.

If you took Europe as a whole against the Dream Team I'm not sure what would have happened. I would love a US vs World All Star Game

Even then, it would've been a real struggle to beat the Dream Team.

International basketball is light years ahead of where it was 20-25 years ago.  No one will see that type of dominance again because the competition is so much better now.

[TheFlex]

The Celtics lack superstar talent, as do other teams close to home (New York, Brooklyn, Philly). Thus it feels like the whole league stinks, when in reality there's an exciting game almost every night.

[DarkAzcura]

There is plenty of talent in the league. They just aren't playing iso-orientated star focused basketball. The NBA is much better now than it was in the 90s and 00s when everything was about one guy on every team. Inflated individual stats that meant nothing. Most people are starting to realize that team basketball is the way to go. What a thought. Top heavy teams have always annoyed me. I love what the league is slowly becoming.

IMO you can debate if Dwight Howard, Joakim Noah or Marc Gasol its the best center and that's kind of embarrassing for Dwight. He is obviously such a superior talent it's not even funny. When Shaq and Duncan were dominating the league, I think guys like Noah existed, but they were just overshadowed because the truly great talents maximized their talent in almost every (excluding free throw shooting for Shaq). And Dwight is the only truly talented big who's in the elite conversation - what does all this say about Bynum, Cousins and those type of guys who should have top 10 talent but don't even have a commitment to basketball?

I think perimeter players (partly because the rules help them) are as good as ever though. I personally thought Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady were to their era and position what guys like Bosh are now. Yeah they have a lot of talent and skill, but can they make winning plays? I think there are like 5 wings and 5 guards right now who are "oh sh--" players where you have to throw your defense out and change everything just to stop them. I always thought you could just put your best wing defender on Carter and TMag and many of the perimeter players other than Kobe and Kidd and you'd be fine.

You clearly have not watched Cousins that much if you do not think he is committed to basketball. The guy is obsessed with basketball. He was incredibly immature his first couple years in the league, but that doesn't make him not committed to basketball. He's so far from being another Bynum it's not even funny.

[Moranis]

People always remember things more fondly, but the reality is the game of basketball has made tremendous strides recently.  The league may be stretched to a couple of unnecessary teams, but by and large the league is comprised of significantly better players today than of years prior.  There is more depth, more skill, more league wide balance, and just a better product on the whole.

I disagree, and   I challenge you to name your all time team, I bet it is not all guys from today.  I would wager it a lot of guys from the past.  That alone should prove the fallacy of your position.

BTW, I have DVDs of the Celtics in the 80s I speak of, so it is not just memory.   I can rewatch the past.   

Of course there were bad teams, but the league has bad conferences now!   Still think it is improved?

Yeah the league is way better today, comprised of way better players.  If you inserted a guy from the 80's into the league today he would be lost and out of place.  But since you asked:

The greatest center played primarily in the 60's.  The greatest PF is still playing.  The greatest SF is still playing.  The greatest SG played primarily in the 90's.  The greatest PG played either primarily in the 60's or the 80's (depending on if you prefer Oscar or Magic).  Of course I'm measuring greatness when you compare said players to their peers, not when you look at things in a vacuum.  If you did it that way and looked at the 5 greatest players per position, you would find a nice mix through all generations because you know every generation has players that stand out from their peers. 

[scaryjerry]

the 2007-2008 Celtics would go 82-0 this season.

But they couldn't even sweep a garbage below.500 hawks team in the playoffs that year? Cool. Yeah no

[scaryjerry]

I agree in general with your premise. There is another facet to it IMO. That is complete package superstars. Some have the physical talent but not The leadership or work ethic or pure desire. Take Dwight Howard for example. There are a few others.

I think John Wall is close. He might get there with Paul Pierce in his ear. Anthony Davis could be but needs a mentor IMO.

What real superstars have needed teammate mentors?

Every single one?

[chambers]

I agree that we're at a slump in nba super stardom phases and decades go.
Durant, Davis, Harden and Westbrook are leading a hard charge but it will be a few years before any great Lebron or Durant challenger arises.

I think there will be an evolution of superstars soon enough- the 7 foot + ball handlers that grew up watching Dirk and Durant will appear in large numbers like crop of Thon Maker, Karl Towns body type.
highly skilled hybrid bigs that can shoot, dribble and score at will...essentially playing all 5 positions on the court.
On a side note I believe muiday in this upcoming draft may be a bona fide NBA superstar.

[Celtics4ever]

That actually shows the opposite -- who's left in the 78-88 era NBA if you take out the Dream Team? The overall talent level was lower in the 70's and 80's, and that's even with the benefit of having a more condensed talent pool.

LOL, that is the weakest argument maybe I have ever seen you do.  Keep throwing stuff up there and maybe if you do enough something will have merit.   There were more All Americans in the league in the past, because there were less teams.   Also, I think more teams had a star, Wilkins was not on one of the Big NBA teams back then and he would have owned today.  Jack Sigma, would be a terrific post nowadays.  I could go on and on.

You really think today is better than these guys?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1338152-legends-of-the-nba-25-best-players-of-the-80s/page/2

Note how many of these fall in this era as opposed to the 80s

http://www.complex.com/sports/2013/11/best-all-around-nba-players/hakeem-olajuwon

Google 100 Greatest NBA players and you won't find as many today as in 78-88 era.      Heck, even college ball was better back then.

[BballTim]

Kobe had an interesting interview recently, where he stated the European youth are excelling in basketball over the American youth, because they are being taught true basics, and technique, and honest rules.

AAU ball is a big part of it, and parents urging kids to shoot every time they touch it.   These things definitely put "me" in team.

In a league, that lacks superstar talent, we are certainly without even a star now.


I think the basketball of the 80s was the best, the quality of the ball was better and top to bottom I think the league was more skilled.   Their are more athletes today but a lot of them cannot play.   However, each generation is marketed by the NBA as bigger and better than the last.   I would put forth that no generation was more skilled from players from 78-88  that includes many hall of famers.   Look at some of the recent drafts and the star potential is simply not there.

All you have to do is look at the 92 dream team...That team destroys any team, any era and probably always will even with half of the guys on the downside of their careers. That shows how much talent there was as mentioned from 78-88.

That actually shows the opposite -- who's left in the 78-88 era NBA if you take out the Dream Team? The overall talent level was lower in the 70's and 80's, and that's even with the benefit of having a more condensed talent pool.

  78-88 is a long window, but start with Kareem, Dr. J, Isiah, Nique, Worthy, Hakeem, Moses Malone, King, Moncrief, Gervin, et al.