Author Topic: Three-Team Trade  (Read 4747 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Three-Team Trade
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2014, 06:17:56 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13576
  • Tommy Points: 1023
It is a pretty reasonable trade (kudos).  My problem with it is that I don't want to get stuck with Gordon and I don't see any value in Rivers.  So that means we trade Green, Bass, Nelson, and Wright (all more than serviceable players on pretty fair contracts) for Barnes and Kuzmic (who I know nothing about except that he is 7-feet tall).

I have not tried to figure out if it works for the other teams or not but I don't think we are getting enough for our assets.  Unless Kuzmic is some super prospect that I don't know about, Barnes does not excite me that much for what we are sending out.  I like that we get players instead of more draft picks though.

Re: Three-Team Trade
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2014, 06:21:56 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 62689
  • Tommy Points: -25472
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
Obviously no one wants Gordon, but taking on his contract is a price we would pay in this scenario for getting good young players. His contract will be off the books (along with Wallace) after next season and in time for 2016 free agency. We almost certainly will not need cap space for 2015 free agency, so let's use it effectively to take on bad contracts for a fee (the fee is Barnes, btw).

The Warriors may not make any significant moves this season, but I believe this trade would help them win a ring.

The Pelicans do need a wing scorer (like JGreen or Barnes). Could they get one for the price of Gordon & Rivers? I think this trade makes them better, period. And if they want a wing scorer and can't get one in-season, they may be able to flip Lee in the offseason for one. (Lee & Evans to BKN for Johnson & Jack?)

Paying $15 million, plus the opportunity cost of losing cap space, plus Jeff Green seems like a very high price for a still unproven Harrison Barnes.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Three-Team Trade
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2014, 06:31:29 PM »

Offline HeadDoctorJ

  • Lonnie Walker IV
  • Posts: 56
  • Tommy Points: 9
Gordon's contract would hamstring us, especially if we don't get rid of Wallace. However, we should still have upwards of $10-15M in cap space next year (minus our 2015 draft picks' salaries) with Thornton coming off the books and the cap increasing.

Perhaps Barnes and Rivers won't amount to a substantial enough return for taking on Gordon's contract, but I think they are worth a shot.

Also, if we do need more cap space for whatever reason, I bet that we could get rid of either Gordon or Wallace in a pinch, perhaps to PHI for the price of sending them back one of their 2nd rounders (2015 or 2016).

Re: Three-Team Trade
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2014, 06:47:50 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 62689
  • Tommy Points: -25472
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
I just think you're underestimating the economics of the NBA a little.

I think dumping Wallace or Gordon would cost a lot more than a #2.  It cost the Warriors two #1s to clear space to sign Iguodala, for instance.

Similarly, taking on $15 million in salary for a decent -- but not blue chip -- prospect seems like a lot to give up. 

Let's say that $15 million in cap space is worth two #1s (again, based on previous value).  Let's call Green worth a #1 (although probably one in the bottom third of the round).

That's the equivalent of giving up three #1s (plus taking on Rivers, who I think is useless) for Barnes.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Three-Team Trade
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2014, 06:56:36 PM »

Offline littleteapot

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 852
  • Tommy Points: 93
I think the big difference GSW may see is that Klay is integral to perhaps the greatest backcourt of all time and covers up Curry's defensive deficiencies. They likely see Barnes as less crucial than Klay to their success. Also, they may wonder whether they will be able to afford Barnes in 2016 (especially since extensions for Klay, Curry, and Green will kick in by then and Bogut will still be on the books). Though Wright, Bass, and Green can all walk after this season, I bet GSW could re-sign two of them.
I agree Klay is much more valuable than Barnes.

If I'm the Warriors I would dump Bogut to keep Barnes. Even if I don't, I'm not giving him up for Jeff Green. I want a long-term piece. Most teams in the league would give me that.

Keep in mind Barnes is only 22.
How do you feel about websites where people with similar interests share their opinions?
I'm forum!

Re: Three-Team Trade
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2014, 07:02:13 PM »

Offline Birdman

  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10300
  • Tommy Points: 465
Lee cant stay healthy so they might
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: Three-Team Trade
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2014, 08:01:20 PM »

Offline HeadDoctorJ

  • Lonnie Walker IV
  • Posts: 56
  • Tommy Points: 9
I just think you're underestimating the economics of the NBA a little.

I think dumping Wallace or Gordon would cost a lot more than a #2.  It cost the Warriors two #1s to clear space to sign Iguodala, for instance.

Similarly, taking on $15 million in salary for a decent -- but not blue chip -- prospect seems like a lot to give up. 

Let's say that $15 million in cap space is worth two #1s (again, based on previous value).  Let's call Green worth a #1 (although probably one in the bottom third of the round).

That's the equivalent of giving up three #1s (plus taking on Rivers, who I think is useless) for Barnes.


That's interesting, and you make some great points, but I think you are presenting a best-case scenario for a return on cap space and Green, which is both unlikely and time-sensitive.

Though probably worth it, at least in a vacuum, Green very well may not fetch a first-rounder (particularly on an expiring contract, in essence), and we may likely get nothing for him. I think it's wise to fish around for the best offer, certainly, but we need to take what we can get rather than let him walk.

Dumping salary is most costly when in a pinch, such as GSW in your Iguodala example, or CLE when we took on Thornton (to accommodate the signings of Love & Lebron). These teams were at their most desperate and willing to part with a little more. However, increasing cap space across the league devalues each team's particular cap space, and with projections of enormous cap increases over the next couple of years, it seems likely that cap space will be further devalued accordingly. Additionally, I think PHI is a unique example right now, as they have more cap space than they can use, and they are hungry for assets. If BOS, whether right now or during the 2015 offseason, offered Wallace to PHI plus their 2015 2nd rounder, I think they consider it. If we threw in the DAL 2016 2nd rounder as well, I think there's a good chance it gets done. Now, if BOS's back was against the wall (like GSW w/Iguodala, or CLE w/Lebron&Love), PHI may rightfully and successfully hold out for more. But if we held firm with that offer, I think PHI would be too tempted to balk at extra assets in exchange for cap space they wouldn't otherwise use.

Rivers may indeed be useless, but I think he is improving and worth a gamble. I think Ainge likes Rivers as well, although that is obviously no indication he will turn into anything useful.

Both Barnes and Rivers seem more promising to me than another late first-rounder or two anyhow, especially since we will have nearly enough first-rounders as is to field a 2017 all-rookie team.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 08:14:38 PM by HeadDoctorJ »

Re: Three-Team Trade
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2014, 08:02:58 PM »

Offline 2short

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6080
  • Tommy Points: 428
If I'm golden state I'm after zeller

Re: Three-Team Trade
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2014, 08:10:57 PM »

Offline HeadDoctorJ

  • Lonnie Walker IV
  • Posts: 56
  • Tommy Points: 9
If I'm golden state I'm after zeller


Zeller instead of Wright? That's interesting. But in that case, if I'm BOS, I don't think I do it because I believe we will lose Wright anyway.