The other bad teams

[celticsclay]

I doubt that I will really change anyone's opinion on this board, so maybe this is just an exercise in futility, but suppose I might as well try.

I have been completely baffled reading the tanking posts and comments and how little other teams schedules, players and current record is taken into account. I thought I would provide a few facts and also opinions on here to try and get through the madness

The Knicks - They have won 5 games this year (putting them 4 wins behind the celtics). They have lost 15 out of 17 and Carmelo did not play yesterday because of knee pain (with multiple reports he is pressured to shut it down). Despite playing in the horrible East they are somehow still 7 games out of the last playoff spot. They will be very hard to finish with a worse record than.

The 76ers - We would probably finish ahead of them without winning another game all season.

The Pacers - Despite getting West and their "big offseason acquisition" Stuckey back, this team has lost 9 of their last 10. While they definitely have more talent  on their roster right now, their ownership is not stupid either. This may be an opportunity for them to add a very high draft pick while their star is out for the year and add to a core of George and Hibbert. They are definitely candidates to tank

The Bobcats - I honestly think they will improve because there is not a lot lost from last year's squad. However, they are worth mentioning because they do have 3 less wins than us and have already considered trading their big off season addition.

The Pistons - Really interesting team with an awful record. Their roster pieces just don't fit and they are also already 4 games behind the Celtics.

Orlando - A very similar team to the celtics (also with a worse record). If they significantly outperform us the rest of the season it is because their 1st and 2nd year players are really outplaying their classmates on the Celtics which bodes poorly for the celtics future tank or not.

Minnesota
Utah
Lakers
Denver

I think these teams would all probably finish with better records than the Celtics in the East and probably would end the season with 10 more games than they do playing in the West. When these west teams are discussed it seems like people think they will somehow magically
accumulate wins. They can get a few against each other and their eastern conference games, but they still have roughly 40 games against the warriors, spurs, memphis, rockets, dallas, clippers and portland each! It is hard to believe that at least two of these teams will not finish with very win totals based on their schedules alone.

[celticsclay]

These are great points. I am so happy it was posted.

[Evantime34]

I doubt that I will really change anyone's opinion on this board, so maybe this is just an exercise in futility, but suppose I might as well try.

I have been completely baffled reading the tanking posts and comments and how little other teams schedules, players and current record is taken into account. I thought I would provide a few facts and also opinions on here to try and get through the madness

The Knicks - They have won 5 games this year (putting them 4 wins behind the celtics). They have lost 15 out of 17 and Carmelo did not play yesterday because of knee pain (with multiple reports he is pressured to shut it down). Despite playing in the horrible East they are somehow still 7 games out of the last playoff spot. They will be very hard to finish with a worse record than.

The 76ers - We would probably finish ahead of them without winning another game all season.

The Pacers - Despite getting West and their "big offseason acquisition" Stuckey back, this team has lost 9 of their last 10. While they definitely have more talent  on their roster right now, their ownership is not stupid either. This may be an opportunity for them to add a very high draft pick while their star is out for the year and add to a core of George and Hibbert. They are definitely candidates to tank

The Bobcats - I honestly think they will improve because there is not a lot lost from last year's squad. However, they are worth mentioning because they do have 3 less wins than us and have already considered trading their big off season addition.

The Pistons - Really interesting team with an awful record. Their roster pieces just don't fit and they are also already 4 games behind the Celtics.

Orlando - A very similar team to the celtics (also with a worse record). If they significantly outperform us the rest of the season it is because their 1st and 2nd year players are really outplaying their classmates on the Celtics which bodes poorly for the celtics future tank or not.

Minnesota
Utah
Lakers
Denver

I think these teams would all probably finish with better records than the Celtics in the East and probably would end the season with 10 more games than they do playing in the West. When these west teams are discussed it seems like people think they will somehow magically
accumulate wins. They can get a few against each other and their eastern conference games, but they still have roughly 40 games against the warriors, spurs, memphis, rockets, dallas, clippers and portland each! It is hard to believe that at least two of these teams will not finish with very win totals based on their schedules alone.

Sorry no one responded to you it sucks when you bother to create a thread and that happens. These responses are assuming we trade Green, Bass, Wright and any other veteran another team wants.
Knicks- if Carmelo shuts it down due to knee issues I think they are worse than us.
76ers- no one is worse than them, they are actively trying to be bad
Pistons- are just a mess without any scoring and they give little effort so I think they are worse than us.
Minnesota- they play in the west and they are very young, I expect them to start selling off assets as well, so I think they will be worse than us
Lakers- they play in the West and are terrible. Plus they only keep their pick if it's in the top 5 so they have incentive to lose

That puts us as the 5th worst team in the league after all our trades. Everyone not on that list will probably finish with a worse record than us.

I don't think this is bad news so much as an organizational strategy to attempt and get a high pick in the draft.

[celticsclay]

I doubt that I will really change anyone's opinion on this board, so maybe this is just an exercise in futility, but suppose I might as well try.

I have been completely baffled reading the tanking posts and comments and how little other teams schedules, players and current record is taken into account. I thought I would provide a few facts and also opinions on here to try and get through the madness

The Knicks - They have won 5 games this year (putting them 4 wins behind the celtics). They have lost 15 out of 17 and Carmelo did not play yesterday because of knee pain (with multiple reports he is pressured to shut it down). Despite playing in the horrible East they are somehow still 7 games out of the last playoff spot. They will be very hard to finish with a worse record than.

The 76ers - We would probably finish ahead of them without winning another game all season.

The Pacers - Despite getting West and their "big offseason acquisition" Stuckey back, this team has lost 9 of their last 10. While they definitely have more talent  on their roster right now, their ownership is not stupid either. This may be an opportunity for them to add a very high draft pick while their star is out for the year and add to a core of George and Hibbert. They are definitely candidates to tank

The Bobcats - I honestly think they will improve because there is not a lot lost from last year's squad. However, they are worth mentioning because they do have 3 less wins than us and have already considered trading their big off season addition.

The Pistons - Really interesting team with an awful record. Their roster pieces just don't fit and they are also already 4 games behind the Celtics.

Orlando - A very similar team to the celtics (also with a worse record). If they significantly outperform us the rest of the season it is because their 1st and 2nd year players are really outplaying their classmates on the Celtics which bodes poorly for the celtics future tank or not.

Minnesota
Utah
Lakers
Denver

I think these teams would all probably finish with better records than the Celtics in the East and probably would end the season with 10 more games than they do playing in the West. When these west teams are discussed it seems like people think they will somehow magically
accumulate wins. They can get a few against each other and their eastern conference games, but they still have roughly 40 games against the warriors, spurs, memphis, rockets, dallas, clippers and portland each! It is hard to believe that at least two of these teams will not finish with very win totals based on their schedules alone.

Sorry no one responded to you it sucks when you bother to create a thread and that happens. These responses are assuming we trade Green, Bass, Wright and any other veteran another team wants.
Knicks- if Carmelo shuts it down due to knee issues I think they are worse than us.
76ers- no one is worse than them, they are actively trying to be bad
Pistons- are just a mess without any scoring and they give little effort so I think they are worse than us.
Minnesota- they play in the west and they are very young, I expect them to start selling off assets as well, so I think they will be worse than us
Lakers- they play in the West and are terrible. Plus they only keep their pick if it's in the top 5 so they have incentive to lose

That puts us as the 5th worst team in the league after all our trades. Everyone not on that list will probably finish with a worse record than us.

I don't think this is bad news so much as an organizational strategy to attempt and get a high pick in the draft.

Thank you for responding . I realize the other teams (Orlando, Indiana, Charlotte, Utah, Denver) are all somewhere between 40-65% likely to finish with a better record than us based on current rosters, but to assume we will finish worse than every single one of them also is mathematically unlikely.

[JBcat]

I also think it's possible maybe only remotely that we could finish with a better record than either the Heat, Nets, or Bucks. 

Bosh is hurt now, Mcroberts is out for the year, and Wade only plays part time.  There have been rumors the Nets might try trade it's big name players, and they are injury prone.  The Bucks are just young.  I'm not sure they can keep up .500 ball all season especially with Parker out now.

[Evantime34]

I doubt that I will really change anyone's opinion on this board, so maybe this is just an exercise in futility, but suppose I might as well try.

I have been completely baffled reading the tanking posts and comments and how little other teams schedules, players and current record is taken into account. I thought I would provide a few facts and also opinions on here to try and get through the madness

The Knicks - They have won 5 games this year (putting them 4 wins behind the celtics). They have lost 15 out of 17 and Carmelo did not play yesterday because of knee pain (with multiple reports he is pressured to shut it down). Despite playing in the horrible East they are somehow still 7 games out of the last playoff spot. They will be very hard to finish with a worse record than.

The 76ers - We would probably finish ahead of them without winning another game all season.

The Pacers - Despite getting West and their "big offseason acquisition" Stuckey back, this team has lost 9 of their last 10. While they definitely have more talent  on their roster right now, their ownership is not stupid either. This may be an opportunity for them to add a very high draft pick while their star is out for the year and add to a core of George and Hibbert. They are definitely candidates to tank

The Bobcats - I honestly think they will improve because there is not a lot lost from last year's squad. However, they are worth mentioning because they do have 3 less wins than us and have already considered trading their big off season addition.

The Pistons - Really interesting team with an awful record. Their roster pieces just don't fit and they are also already 4 games behind the Celtics.

Orlando - A very similar team to the celtics (also with a worse record). If they significantly outperform us the rest of the season it is because their 1st and 2nd year players are really outplaying their classmates on the Celtics which bodes poorly for the celtics future tank or not.

Minnesota
Utah
Lakers
Denver

I think these teams would all probably finish with better records than the Celtics in the East and probably would end the season with 10 more games than they do playing in the West. When these west teams are discussed it seems like people think they will somehow magically
accumulate wins. They can get a few against each other and their eastern conference games, but they still have roughly 40 games against the warriors, spurs, memphis, rockets, dallas, clippers and portland each! It is hard to believe that at least two of these teams will not finish with very win totals based on their schedules alone.

Sorry no one responded to you it sucks when you bother to create a thread and that happens. These responses are assuming we trade Green, Bass, Wright and any other veteran another team wants.
Knicks- if Carmelo shuts it down due to knee issues I think they are worse than us.
76ers- no one is worse than them, they are actively trying to be bad
Pistons- are just a mess without any scoring and they give little effort so I think they are worse than us.
Minnesota- they play in the west and they are very young, I expect them to start selling off assets as well, so I think they will be worse than us
Lakers- they play in the West and are terrible. Plus they only keep their pick if it's in the top 5 so they have incentive to lose

That puts us as the 5th worst team in the league after all our trades. Everyone not on that list will probably finish with a worse record than us.

I don't think this is bad news so much as an organizational strategy to attempt and get a high pick in the draft.

Thank you for responding . I realize the other teams (Orlando, Indiana, Charlotte, Utah, Denver) are all somewhere between 40-65% likely to finish with a better record than us based on current rosters, but to assume we will finish worse than every single one of them also is mathematically unlikely.

It is hard to tell what is likely before the rosters are finalized. I will come find this thread later in the season and we can see.

[TheTruthFot18]

I doubt that I will really change anyone's opinion on this board, so maybe this is just an exercise in futility, but suppose I might as well try.

TP for the honesty 

I still believe Charlotte, Indy, Denver,  and Orlando will all end up with better records than us. They are just in a slump. Others will make the move to fix the current issue like NYK, Indy, Denver, and Charlotte . Philly and Minny I don't think we'll get ahead of.

[Rondohara]

Many here underestimate how much do some of those teams suck. Severely.

[wiley]

With Shabazz Muhammad playing well in Minny,
how does this team look if Minny gets the 3rd pick?

Rubio, Z. Lavine
Wiggins, Lavine
Muhammad, Wiggins, Bennet
K. Towns, Thad. Young, Bennet
Pekovic, Dieng,

[obnoxiousmime]

I doubt that I will really change anyone's opinion on this board, so maybe this is just an exercise in futility, but suppose I might as well try.

I have been completely baffled reading the tanking posts and comments and how little other teams schedules, players and current record is taken into account. I thought I would provide a few facts and also opinions on here to try and get through the madness

The Knicks - They have won 5 games this year (putting them 4 wins behind the celtics). They have lost 15 out of 17 and Carmelo did not play yesterday because of knee pain (with multiple reports he is pressured to shut it down). Despite playing in the horrible East they are somehow still 7 games out of the last playoff spot. They will be very hard to finish with a worse record than.

The 76ers - We would probably finish ahead of them without winning another game all season.

The Pacers - Despite getting West and their "big offseason acquisition" Stuckey back, this team has lost 9 of their last 10. While they definitely have more talent  on their roster right now, their ownership is not stupid either. This may be an opportunity for them to add a very high draft pick while their star is out for the year and add to a core of George and Hibbert. They are definitely candidates to tank

The Bobcats - I honestly think they will improve because there is not a lot lost from last year's squad. However, they are worth mentioning because they do have 3 less wins than us and have already considered trading their big off season addition.

The Pistons - Really interesting team with an awful record. Their roster pieces just don't fit and they are also already 4 games behind the Celtics.

Orlando - A very similar team to the celtics (also with a worse record). If they significantly outperform us the rest of the season it is because their 1st and 2nd year players are really outplaying their classmates on the Celtics which bodes poorly for the celtics future tank or not.

Minnesota
Utah
Lakers
Denver

I think these teams would all probably finish with better records than the Celtics in the East and probably would end the season with 10 more games than they do playing in the West. When these west teams are discussed it seems like people think they will somehow magically
accumulate wins. They can get a few against each other and their eastern conference games, but they still have roughly 40 games against the warriors, spurs, memphis, rockets, dallas, clippers and portland each! It is hard to believe that at least two of these teams will not finish with very win totals based on their schedules alone.

Many here underestimate how much do some of those teams suck. Severely.

I have to say that I really dislike how you started your post. Why start off putting down anybody who might disagree with you? You're making it harder to accomplish what you claimed was your goal, to change some people's minds. Why would anybody be open to your words when you've already labeled them as stubborn?

I think that there is just as much, if not more underestimating of how much the Celtics suck. I remember last year it was all about how we were going to make the playoffs and when Rondo came back it would all be wine and roses. Instead it was Natty Ice and crabgrass. We ended up finishing tied for the fourth worst record. If I had predicted that early last season when the team was hovering around .500 all the homers would have scoffed.

Right now there are really only four teams we definitely will not outstink: Philly, New York, Minnesota, and Los Angeles. The rest of the teams won't all finish with better records than the Celtics, but they also won't all finish worse.

You're also asserting as fact that it's pointless to tank, or to root for tanking, when we can't place somewhere near the very bottom. Actually, it's perfectly legitimate to simply want the lowest possible position possible, even if it's 7th, 8th, 9th, etc. Maybe to one person, this draft has 7 solid players. To him, finishing 7th would be a victory, not a defeat. Here is what I know: 7th is better than 8th, 8th is better than 9th, and so on.

Is assuming we have a great shot at Towns, Mudiay, or Okafor a little premature? Sure, but that was always going to be the case due to the lottery system.

[apc]

The problem is that Brad Stevens is not on board with the tanking.
Now, I do not expect him to deliberately lose games, but I do want him to focus on what’s good for the future and give the minutes to those who are part of the future. For example I am pretty sure Nelson is not here for the long run, so I don’t understand why he needs to play.

[sh_touttahere]

I agree with you op 100%