Celtics (7-14) at Sixers (2-21) Game #22 12/15/14

[Celtics4ever]

I feel like Sullinger's only a slightly-below-average defender when he's playing well.

Olynyk is a catastrophe on an average night.

Both are horrible.   I saw some try on both of them tonight though and that was an improvement.   But lordly did Sully lay a lemon on offense.   I can't believe just a few weeks ago some posters thought he was an allstar which is nonsense.   Noel owened him a few times in the post tonight.   These guys struggle with length and athletic bigs.   Their ceiling is finite because they are already skilled but cannot improve much on the athletic end.   Getting stronger would help both of them a lot..

[greece66]

You can be "fat" and still play well, like he was doing for almost twenty games.

What are the "" for?
Personally, I do not care if he plays well or badly, it is simply unacceptable for a professional player of his caliber to be in bad shape. I am not going to give him any excuses. What is wrong with this kid? He cannot resist the sweet taste of hamburgers or sthg? Coooooome on...
Playing bad for a few games is no biggie, wasting your talent for nothing is.

[KeepRondo]

I hope Sullinger has just been ill or something for the past few weeks. It would be best to have him on the bench for a bit.

(that said, somehow he still picked up double-digit rebounds today)

HE IS FAT

Funny before his slump that people were singing his praises.....

He's been on Sully before the slump about his defense. Good try though.

[oldtype]

I feel like Sullinger's only a slightly-below-average defender when he's playing well.

Olynyk is a catastrophe on an average night.

Both are horrible.   I saw some try on both of them tonight though and that was an improvement.   But lordly did Sully lay a lemon on offense.   I can't believe just a few weeks ago some posters thought he was an allstar which is nonsense.   Noel owened him a few times in the post tonight.   These guys struggle with length and athletic bigs.   Their ceiling is finite because they are already skilled but cannot improve much on the athletic end.   Getting stronger would help both of them a lot..

I think his pre-slump stats are much more representative of what kind of player he is. He's not an all-star but he is quite good.

This slump has only actually been three games long anyway. He wasn't playing much at all against the Wizards because we were riding the second unit.

[greece66]

I feel like Sullinger's only a slightly-below-average defender when he's playing well.

Olynyk is a catastrophe on an average night.

Both are horrible.   I saw some try on both of them tonight though and that was an improvement.   But lordly did Sully lay a lemon on offense.   I can't believe just a few weeks ago some posters thought he was an allstar which is nonsense.   Noel owened him a few times in the post tonight.   These guys struggle with length and athletic bigs.   Their ceiling is finite because they are already skilled but cannot improve much on the athletic end.   Getting stronger would help both of them a lot..

I agree with this approach. These are young talented ppl who have to do all the can to improve. To me, it doesn't look like they have the right attitude. Unless you really want it, there's no chance you'll reach the top.

[esel1000]

Sully's offensive slump is scary bad... nice rebounding game but three straight 5 pt games and one game with 0 pts is completely unacceptable. How you revert from averaging close to 17 ppg to that in a week is mind blowing and a huge hit to this team. Thank God for KO tonight my lack of faith in our young talent was reaching new levels

[KeepRondo]

Injured?
Sully and Bradley 
Package them and a draft pick, what do we get.

A really good player, because teams don't just get to give up garbage for a 22-year old that has shown David West-potential, a 24-year old that has shown Aaron Afflalo 2.0-potential and a pick.

I would do it for Greg Monroe.

We'd quite easily get Monroe for those two without needing to include the pick.

Doubt it, or it would have gotten done already. I have been a big Sully fan all along, but I am finally seeing the limitations in his game.  He will end up as a reliable NBA player, and could perhaps make an All Star team someday, but he's not getting much better than he is right now, skill wise.  Same thing with Bradley. I say make the move. 
Monroe
Olynyk
Green
Smart
Rondo

Monroe
KO
Green
Mclemore
Smart

I would like to see this unit on the floor

I think the Kings are pretty high on McLemore. I don't think they even take Rondo for him.

Maybe. Bc they have lost like 8 games now, and fired the coach.  Their GM is in deep waters right now and i can see a possibility of them giving up Mclemore for Rondo

He told Rudy Gay something in order for him to pick up his option.  I bet it had to do with trying to bring in his buddies Josh Smith and Rondo .

To Pistons: Derrick Williams, Carl Landry
To Kings:  Josh Smith

To Sac: Rondo
To Celts: Mclemore, Fillers

Danny really wanted Mclemore a few years ago.  The type of top flight athlete Ainge likes alot

I'm only agreeing to this trade if Rondo wants out. But I think we need their 2015 first with this.

[Surferdad]

I feel like Sullinger's only a slightly-below-average defender when he's playing well.

Olynyk is a catastrophe on an average night.

Both are horrible.   I saw some try on both of them tonight though and that was an improvement.   But lordly did Sully lay a lemon on offense.   I can't believe just a few weeks ago some posters thought he was an allstar which is nonsense.   Noel owened him a few times in the post tonight.   These guys struggle with length and athletic bigs.   Their ceiling is finite because they are already skilled but cannot improve much on the athletic end.   Getting stronger would help both of them a lot..

Yes for Sully as he has a year more in the league so I agree this is what he is.  Olynyk however, clearly has more upside. The question is whether he can become a decent defender in another year.

[KeepRondo]

I feel like Sullinger's only a slightly-below-average defender when he's playing well.

Olynyk is a catastrophe on an average night.

he was a nightmare to start the season.

it's a good sign to see him adjusting

Keep thinking your eyes are more accurate than modern technology. That's not arrogant or stubborn.

 

I guess we all need to use modern technology to know if Sully is a bad defender or not   

[oldtype]

I feel like Sullinger's only a slightly-below-average defender when he's playing well.

Olynyk is a catastrophe on an average night.

Both are horrible.   I saw some try on both of them tonight though and that was an improvement.   But lordly did Sully lay a lemon on offense.   I can't believe just a few weeks ago some posters thought he was an allstar which is nonsense.   Noel owened him a few times in the post tonight.   These guys struggle with length and athletic bigs.   Their ceiling is finite because they are already skilled but cannot improve much on the athletic end.   Getting stronger would help both of them a lot..

Yes for Sully as he has a year more in the league so I agree this is what he is.  Olynyk however, clearly has more upside. The question is whether he can become a decent defender in another year.

I think that's a bit of an over-reaction given that that the players Olynyk was dominating on D today were not NBA quality.

[TheFlex]

Injured?
Sully and Bradley 
Package them and a draft pick, what do we get.

A really good player, because teams don't just get to give up garbage for a 22-year old that has shown David West-potential, a 24-year old that has shown Aaron Afflalo 2.0-potential and a pick.

I would do it for Greg Monroe.

I would burn down Danny Ainge's house if he made that deal.

David West was a much better defender.

David West has never not played next to an imposing shot-blocker or behind an elite perimeter defender. The worst center he has played next to is Emeka Okafor. Between the Hornets and Indiana, West was the second line of defense for either Chris Paul or Paul George. Not surprisingly, the year Tyson Chandler left the team and CP3 went down with injury, West posted a career low in defensive rating (or should I say career high: 110 pts. allowed per 100 possessions).

There is neither a single statistic nor professional analysis that suggests that Sully is anything less than an average defender despite being surrounded by mediocre defenders.

So we have to hide Sully's bad defense with a better defender. And then when everyone's stats go up because we have this player x, we can then say Sully is a good defender? Good points you make.

Nah. Sully's an average to above-average defender. Playing next to an average defensive center he will hold his own. Playing next to a great shot-blocker he can lock down his man from time to time. Playing next to what we have and he will not play anything more than below-average defense.

[ImShakHeIsShaq]

I feel like Sullinger's only a slightly-below-average defender when he's playing well.

Olynyk is a catastrophe on an average night.

Both are horrible.   I saw some try on both of them tonight though and that was an improvement.   But lordly did Sully lay a lemon on offense.   I can't believe just a few weeks ago some posters thought he was an allstar which is nonsense.   Noel owened him a few times in the post tonight.   These guys struggle with length and athletic bigs.   Their ceiling is finite because they are already skilled but cannot improve much on the athletic end.   Getting stronger would help both of them a lot..

Yes for Sully as he has a year more in the league so I agree this is what he is.  Olynyk however, clearly has more upside. The question is whether he can become a decent defender in another year.

I think that's a bit of an over-reaction given that that the players Olynyk was dominating on D today were not NBA quality.

KO can never get credit without a big BUT...

he has had good games against good teams/players, he just doesn't get to (nah he DOESN'T DO IT ON HIS OWN) shoot the ball enough. He can be shooting lights out but stop going for his. He is too passive.

Hopefully one day he will just go for it more often but he is very frustrating at times.


His defense has been better, hopefully he can get better with work and time. One of his big problems on D to me, he helps too much and at wrong times... his name should be KOverhelp. He will never be anything more than average on D but he works hard and he is smart enough to get better.

[KeepRondo]

Injured?
Sully and Bradley 
Package them and a draft pick, what do we get.

A really good player, because teams don't just get to give up garbage for a 22-year old that has shown David West-potential, a 24-year old that has shown Aaron Afflalo 2.0-potential and a pick.

I would do it for Greg Monroe.

I would burn down Danny Ainge's house if he made that deal.

David West was a much better defender.

David West has never not played next to an imposing shot-blocker or behind an elite perimeter defender. The worst center he has played next to is Emeka Okafor. Between the Hornets and Indiana, West was the second line of defense for either Chris Paul or Paul George. Not surprisingly, the year Tyson Chandler left the team and CP3 went down with injury, West posted a career low in defensive rating (or should I say career high: 110 pts. allowed per 100 possessions).

There is neither a single statistic nor professional analysis that suggests that Sully is anything less than an average defender despite being surrounded by mediocre defenders.

So we have to hide Sully's bad defense with a better defender. And then when everyone's stats go up because we have this player x, we can then say Sully is a good defender? Good points you make.

Nah. Sully's an average to above-average defender. Playing next to an average defensive center he will hold his own. Playing next to a great shot-blocker he can lock down his man from time to time. Playing next to what we have and he will not play anything more than above-average defense.

If he was an above average defender he wouldn't need another player to show his value.

I think you only look at his man to man defense and you're over looking his slow rotations and inability to plug the driving lanes.

Maybe he loses the weight and his rotations become cleaner and he gets to the spots he needs. Right now he looks out of shape and slow.

[Surferdad]

I feel like Sullinger's only a slightly-below-average defender when he's playing well.

Olynyk is a catastrophe on an average night.

Both are horrible.   I saw some try on both of them tonight though and that was an improvement.   But lordly did Sully lay a lemon on offense.   I can't believe just a few weeks ago some posters thought he was an allstar which is nonsense.   Noel owened him a few times in the post tonight.   These guys struggle with length and athletic bigs.   Their ceiling is finite because they are already skilled but cannot improve much on the athletic end.   Getting stronger would help both of them a lot..

Yes for Sully as he has a year more in the league so I agree this is what he is.  Olynyk however, clearly has more upside. The question is whether he can become a decent defender in another year.

I think that's a bit of an over-reaction given that that the players Olynyk was dominating on D today were not NBA quality.

KO can never get credit without a big BUT...

he has had good games against good teams/players, he just doesn't get to (nah he DOESN'T DO IT ON HIS OWN) shoot the ball enough. He can be shooting lights out but stop going for his. He is too passive.

Hopefully one day he will just go for it more often but he is very frustrating at times.


His defense has been better, hopefully he can get better with work and time. One of his big problems on D to me, he helps too much and at wrong times... his name should be KOverhelp. He will never be anything more than average on D but he works hard and he is smart enough to get better.

Yes, agreed. And to old type, I am not overreacting, in fact I said he has more upside, NOT that he is there yet. Like Sully he needs a third year to show what he's got, that means he has upside, it is not an overreaction to anything.  Gheez.

[TheFlex]

Injured?
Sully and Bradley 
Package them and a draft pick, what do we get.

A really good player, because teams don't just get to give up garbage for a 22-year old that has shown David West-potential, a 24-year old that has shown Aaron Afflalo 2.0-potential and a pick.

I would do it for Greg Monroe.

I would burn down Danny Ainge's house if he made that deal.

David West was a much better defender.

David West has never not played next to an imposing shot-blocker or behind an elite perimeter defender. The worst center he has played next to is Emeka Okafor. Between the Hornets and Indiana, West was the second line of defense for either Chris Paul or Paul George. Not surprisingly, the year Tyson Chandler left the team and CP3 went down with injury, West posted a career low in defensive rating (or should I say career high: 110 pts. allowed per 100 possessions).

There is neither a single statistic nor professional analysis that suggests that Sully is anything less than an average defender despite being surrounded by mediocre defenders.

So we have to hide Sully's bad defense with a better defender. And then when everyone's stats go up because we have this player x, we can then say Sully is a good defender? Good points you make.

Nah. Sully's an average to above-average defender. Playing next to an average defensive center he will hold his own. Playing next to a great shot-blocker he can lock down his man from time to time. Playing next to what we have and he will not play anything more than above-average defense.

If he was an above average defender he wouldn't need another player to show his value.

I think you only look at his man to man defense and you're over looking his slow rotations and inability to plug the driving lanes.

Maybe he loses the weight and his rotations become cleaner and he gets to the spots he needs. Right now he looks out of shape and slow.

Have a hard time believing that when the C's are a net positive defensively with Sully on the floor and a net negative when KO, whose lack of team defense you have been less critical of, is on the floor.

Perhaps the stats lie. I'm guessing in this case, they do not.