Stevens : "When it gets tough, we haven't"

[PickNRoll]

You can't really argue with what he's saying but it seems like he's deflecting blame.

His rotation and substitution decisions are quite terrible and his coaching is clearly part of the problem on defense.  And maybe, just maybe, it's moronic to expect these players to perfectly execute an offense that it took even the Spurs several years to nail down.

Mike

I like Stevens and I think he will be a good coach!  However, I feel like the C's are pretty bad on offense coming out of a TO?  What do you guys think?

I think blaming the coach for execution out of a timeout is overdone.  The players have seen all of  these plays hundreds or thousands of times.  If they fail to execute, it has more to do with increased defensive pressure, or the simple fact that a side out is tougher to negotiate than dribbling the ball up the court.

  I'd be willing to bet you'd see a lot less poor execution on those plays if we still had KG/PP/RA.

Exactly.  Execution comes down to reps and composure.  Some guys are born with it.  Some guys can learn it.  Some guys never will -- they just don't have the right physical or mental makeup.

But on defense and coaching, are players getting the reps in practice?  Does Stevens emphasize it enough?

And coaches also need to adjust their schemes to fit their talent.  If after a whole off season, training camp, preseason and 15 regular season games, your team is complete garbage on defense, it might be time to simplify things.  It's better to have players be good in a mediocre defensive scheme than to have them utterly suck in a "better" and more complex defense.

I can't remember, but has Stevens even TRIED to use a zone?  Yeah, you can't be a good defensive team playing zone exclusively in the NBA, but it sure as heck can work for stretches during games.

Mike

I guarantee Stevens is losing sleep over these questions.  What if he just doesn't have enough good NBA players?  Isn't that a possibility?

[MBunge]

You can't really argue with what he's saying but it seems like he's deflecting blame.

His rotation and substitution decisions are quite terrible and his coaching is clearly part of the problem on defense.  And maybe, just maybe, it's moronic to expect these players to perfectly execute an offense that it took even the Spurs several years to nail down.

Mike

I like Stevens and I think he will be a good coach!  However, I feel like the C's are pretty bad on offense coming out of a TO?  What do you guys think?

I think blaming the coach for execution out of a timeout is overdone.  The players have seen all of  these plays hundreds or thousands of times.  If they fail to execute, it has more to do with increased defensive pressure, or the simple fact that a side out is tougher to negotiate than dribbling the ball up the court.

  I'd be willing to bet you'd see a lot less poor execution on those plays if we still had KG/PP/RA.

Exactly.  Execution comes down to reps and composure.  Some guys are born with it.  Some guys can learn it.  Some guys never will -- they just don't have the right physical or mental makeup.

But on defense and coaching, are players getting the reps in practice?  Does Stevens emphasize it enough?

And coaches also need to adjust their schemes to fit their talent.  If after a whole off season, training camp, preseason and 15 regular season games, your team is complete garbage on defense, it might be time to simplify things.  It's better to have players be good in a mediocre defensive scheme than to have them utterly suck in a "better" and more complex defense.

I can't remember, but has Stevens even TRIED to use a zone?  Yeah, you can't be a good defensive team playing zone exclusively in the NBA, but it sure as heck can work for stretches during games.

Mike

I guarantee Stevens is losing sleep over these questions.  What if he just doesn't have enough good NBA players?  Isn't that a possibility?

Rondo.  Bradley.  Green.  Bass.  Thornton.  All proven NBA veterans.

Sully and Zeller are also clearly at least going to be rotational guys.

Turner and KO are real question marks.  Wallace at least has plenty of experience.

That's 10 deep with only three players who might not qualify as "good" in the NBA.

I'm not expecting these guys to be great defensively.  I'm not even expecting them to be very good defensively.  But I've seen too many coaches at all levels of the game get at least average or slightly below average defense out of rosters with the same or less talent.

Go look at the roster of the 2001-2002 Celtics.  Basketball-reference.com says Jim O'Brien got that team to have the 5th best defense in the entire league.

Mike

[Celtics4ever]

Our toughness went up in smoke when Smart got hurt.  The early season hard nose D ceased.

[hwangjini_1]

Missed the game last night but I saw the box score.  Nice to see Rondo 1-8, with 7 TO's and 0-3 from 3pt.  I am sure he more than made up for it with his stellar defense....

you posted in the wrong thread. please read the title on this one.

[PickNRoll]

You can't really argue with what he's saying but it seems like he's deflecting blame.

His rotation and substitution decisions are quite terrible and his coaching is clearly part of the problem on defense.  And maybe, just maybe, it's moronic to expect these players to perfectly execute an offense that it took even the Spurs several years to nail down.

Mike

I like Stevens and I think he will be a good coach!  However, I feel like the C's are pretty bad on offense coming out of a TO?  What do you guys think?

I think blaming the coach for execution out of a timeout is overdone.  The players have seen all of  these plays hundreds or thousands of times.  If they fail to execute, it has more to do with increased defensive pressure, or the simple fact that a side out is tougher to negotiate than dribbling the ball up the court.

  I'd be willing to bet you'd see a lot less poor execution on those plays if we still had KG/PP/RA.

Exactly.  Execution comes down to reps and composure.  Some guys are born with it.  Some guys can learn it.  Some guys never will -- they just don't have the right physical or mental makeup.

But on defense and coaching, are players getting the reps in practice?  Does Stevens emphasize it enough?

And coaches also need to adjust their schemes to fit their talent.  If after a whole off season, training camp, preseason and 15 regular season games, your team is complete garbage on defense, it might be time to simplify things.  It's better to have players be good in a mediocre defensive scheme than to have them utterly suck in a "better" and more complex defense.

I can't remember, but has Stevens even TRIED to use a zone?  Yeah, you can't be a good defensive team playing zone exclusively in the NBA, but it sure as heck can work for stretches during games.

Mike

I guarantee Stevens is losing sleep over these questions.  What if he just doesn't have enough good NBA players?  Isn't that a possibility?

Rondo.  Bradley.  Green.  Bass.  Thornton.  All proven NBA veterans.

Sully and Zeller are also clearly at least going to be rotational guys.

Turner and KO are real question marks.  Wallace at least has plenty of experience.

That's 10 deep with only three players who might not qualify as "good" in the NBA.

I'm not expecting these guys to be great defensively.  I'm not even expecting them to be very good defensively.  But I've seen too many coaches at all levels of the game get at least average or slightly below average defense out of rosters with the same or less talent.

Go look at the roster of the 2001-2002 Celtics.  Basketball-reference.com says Jim O'Brien got that team to have the 5th best defense in the entire league.

Mike

5 nickels don't make a quarter.  Guys like Thornton, Bass, Olynyk, Bradley, etc. don't move the needle at all.  They just ensure that we aren't the 76ers.  I don't know what it is they've "proven".

Consider Ainge's mindset when he traded away Big Al, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Telfair, Raitliff, and a draft pick that could've been Steph Curry.

[MBunge]

You can't really argue with what he's saying but it seems like he's deflecting blame.

His rotation and substitution decisions are quite terrible and his coaching is clearly part of the problem on defense.  And maybe, just maybe, it's moronic to expect these players to perfectly execute an offense that it took even the Spurs several years to nail down.

Mike

I like Stevens and I think he will be a good coach!  However, I feel like the C's are pretty bad on offense coming out of a TO?  What do you guys think?

I think blaming the coach for execution out of a timeout is overdone.  The players have seen all of  these plays hundreds or thousands of times.  If they fail to execute, it has more to do with increased defensive pressure, or the simple fact that a side out is tougher to negotiate than dribbling the ball up the court.

  I'd be willing to bet you'd see a lot less poor execution on those plays if we still had KG/PP/RA.

Exactly.  Execution comes down to reps and composure.  Some guys are born with it.  Some guys can learn it.  Some guys never will -- they just don't have the right physical or mental makeup.

But on defense and coaching, are players getting the reps in practice?  Does Stevens emphasize it enough?

And coaches also need to adjust their schemes to fit their talent.  If after a whole off season, training camp, preseason and 15 regular season games, your team is complete garbage on defense, it might be time to simplify things.  It's better to have players be good in a mediocre defensive scheme than to have them utterly suck in a "better" and more complex defense.

I can't remember, but has Stevens even TRIED to use a zone?  Yeah, you can't be a good defensive team playing zone exclusively in the NBA, but it sure as heck can work for stretches during games.

Mike

I guarantee Stevens is losing sleep over these questions.  What if he just doesn't have enough good NBA players?  Isn't that a possibility?

Rondo.  Bradley.  Green.  Bass.  Thornton.  All proven NBA veterans.

Sully and Zeller are also clearly at least going to be rotational guys.

Turner and KO are real question marks.  Wallace at least has plenty of experience.

That's 10 deep with only three players who might not qualify as "good" in the NBA.

I'm not expecting these guys to be great defensively.  I'm not even expecting them to be very good defensively.  But I've seen too many coaches at all levels of the game get at least average or slightly below average defense out of rosters with the same or less talent.

Go look at the roster of the 2001-2002 Celtics.  Basketball-reference.com says Jim O'Brien got that team to have the 5th best defense in the entire league.

Mike

5 nickels don't make a quarter.  Guys like Thornton, Bass, Olynyk, Bradley, etc. don't move the needle at all.  They just ensure that we aren't the 76ers.  I don't know what it is they've "proven".

Consider Ainge's mindset when he traded away Big Al, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Telfair, Raitliff, and a draft pick that could've been Steph Curry.

Let me spell it out for you.

Given what we've seen from the team on offense, if they were just average or even a bit below average, like better than 28th in the league for points allowed per game and better than 27th for opponents field goal percentage, they'd be better than 4-11 in an embarrassing fashion.

Mike

[PickNRoll]

You can't really argue with what he's saying but it seems like he's deflecting blame.

His rotation and substitution decisions are quite terrible and his coaching is clearly part of the problem on defense.  And maybe, just maybe, it's moronic to expect these players to perfectly execute an offense that it took even the Spurs several years to nail down.

Mike

I like Stevens and I think he will be a good coach!  However, I feel like the C's are pretty bad on offense coming out of a TO?  What do you guys think?

I think blaming the coach for execution out of a timeout is overdone.  The players have seen all of  these plays hundreds or thousands of times.  If they fail to execute, it has more to do with increased defensive pressure, or the simple fact that a side out is tougher to negotiate than dribbling the ball up the court.

  I'd be willing to bet you'd see a lot less poor execution on those plays if we still had KG/PP/RA.

Exactly.  Execution comes down to reps and composure.  Some guys are born with it.  Some guys can learn it.  Some guys never will -- they just don't have the right physical or mental makeup.

But on defense and coaching, are players getting the reps in practice?  Does Stevens emphasize it enough?

And coaches also need to adjust their schemes to fit their talent.  If after a whole off season, training camp, preseason and 15 regular season games, your team is complete garbage on defense, it might be time to simplify things.  It's better to have players be good in a mediocre defensive scheme than to have them utterly suck in a "better" and more complex defense.

I can't remember, but has Stevens even TRIED to use a zone?  Yeah, you can't be a good defensive team playing zone exclusively in the NBA, but it sure as heck can work for stretches during games.

Mike

I guarantee Stevens is losing sleep over these questions.  What if he just doesn't have enough good NBA players?  Isn't that a possibility?

Rondo.  Bradley.  Green.  Bass.  Thornton.  All proven NBA veterans.

Sully and Zeller are also clearly at least going to be rotational guys.

Turner and KO are real question marks.  Wallace at least has plenty of experience.

That's 10 deep with only three players who might not qualify as "good" in the NBA.

I'm not expecting these guys to be great defensively.  I'm not even expecting them to be very good defensively.  But I've seen too many coaches at all levels of the game get at least average or slightly below average defense out of rosters with the same or less talent.

Go look at the roster of the 2001-2002 Celtics.  Basketball-reference.com says Jim O'Brien got that team to have the 5th best defense in the entire league.

Mike

5 nickels don't make a quarter.  Guys like Thornton, Bass, Olynyk, Bradley, etc. don't move the needle at all.  They just ensure that we aren't the 76ers.  I don't know what it is they've "proven".

Consider Ainge's mindset when he traded away Big Al, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Telfair, Raitliff, and a draft pick that could've been Steph Curry.

Let me spell it out for you.

Given what we've seen from the team on offense, if they were just average or even a bit below average, like better than 28th in the league for points allowed per game and better than 27th for opponents field goal percentage, they'd be better than 4-11 in an embarrassing fashion.

Mike

But they're not.  They are 28th in the league.  That's our team.  What are you spelling out?

[MBunge]

And let me be clear, I'm not absolving the players for their cruddy D or insisting that Stevens should be leading this motley crew to the top of the Atlantic Division.

But when a team keeps making the same mistakes and suffering the same kind of defeats over and over and the coach blames the players, I have to wonder what exactly he's doing to try and fix things.

Mike

[MBunge]

You can't really argue with what he's saying but it seems like he's deflecting blame.

His rotation and substitution decisions are quite terrible and his coaching is clearly part of the problem on defense.  And maybe, just maybe, it's moronic to expect these players to perfectly execute an offense that it took even the Spurs several years to nail down.

Mike

I like Stevens and I think he will be a good coach!  However, I feel like the C's are pretty bad on offense coming out of a TO?  What do you guys think?

I think blaming the coach for execution out of a timeout is overdone.  The players have seen all of  these plays hundreds or thousands of times.  If they fail to execute, it has more to do with increased defensive pressure, or the simple fact that a side out is tougher to negotiate than dribbling the ball up the court.

  I'd be willing to bet you'd see a lot less poor execution on those plays if we still had KG/PP/RA.

Exactly.  Execution comes down to reps and composure.  Some guys are born with it.  Some guys can learn it.  Some guys never will -- they just don't have the right physical or mental makeup.

But on defense and coaching, are players getting the reps in practice?  Does Stevens emphasize it enough?

And coaches also need to adjust their schemes to fit their talent.  If after a whole off season, training camp, preseason and 15 regular season games, your team is complete garbage on defense, it might be time to simplify things.  It's better to have players be good in a mediocre defensive scheme than to have them utterly suck in a "better" and more complex defense.

I can't remember, but has Stevens even TRIED to use a zone?  Yeah, you can't be a good defensive team playing zone exclusively in the NBA, but it sure as heck can work for stretches during games.

Mike

I guarantee Stevens is losing sleep over these questions.  What if he just doesn't have enough good NBA players?  Isn't that a possibility?

Rondo.  Bradley.  Green.  Bass.  Thornton.  All proven NBA veterans.

Sully and Zeller are also clearly at least going to be rotational guys.

Turner and KO are real question marks.  Wallace at least has plenty of experience.

That's 10 deep with only three players who might not qualify as "good" in the NBA.

I'm not expecting these guys to be great defensively.  I'm not even expecting them to be very good defensively.  But I've seen too many coaches at all levels of the game get at least average or slightly below average defense out of rosters with the same or less talent.

Go look at the roster of the 2001-2002 Celtics.  Basketball-reference.com says Jim O'Brien got that team to have the 5th best defense in the entire league.

Mike

5 nickels don't make a quarter.  Guys like Thornton, Bass, Olynyk, Bradley, etc. don't move the needle at all.  They just ensure that we aren't the 76ers.  I don't know what it is they've "proven".

Consider Ainge's mindset when he traded away Big Al, Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Telfair, Raitliff, and a draft pick that could've been Steph Curry.

Let me spell it out for you.

Given what we've seen from the team on offense, if they were just average or even a bit below average, like better than 28th in the league for points allowed per game and better than 27th for opponents field goal percentage, they'd be better than 4-11 in an embarrassing fashion.

Mike

But they're not.  They are 28th in the league.  That's our team.  What are you spelling out?

And if Doc was here, would they be 28th?  Would Thibs have this crew playing the 28th worst defense in the league?

Do you know who ESPN has ranked as a better defense than Boston?  Philly.  The Philadelphia Seventy-Tankers are playing better defense than the Boston Celtics.  Is that because they have more talent?  Does Philly have more "good" players than the Celtics?

What precisely do you think NBA coaches do to earn their salaries?  Because you apparently think they have absolutely no impact on whether or not their teams play well.

Mike

[Jon Niednagel]

Right -- like I said, I know we've basically flip-flopped our identity from last year (good D, terrible O), but I haven't had many chances to watch it in action. The last game I was actually able to watch was the second half of the Cleveland game.

Wait! How is it you are not watching the games? You are like one of the super CB posters. I have to go question all my other assumptions about the world now. Could people standing on a soapboxes actually be right? Does my dog like me? Maybe I'm good at math!

[PickNRoll]

I'm not surprised that we're in the same region as the 76ers on D.  mcw, mcdaniels, noel, mbah a moute... they're as good as anything we have on defense, with the exception of Smart.

[kozlodoev]

What are you spelling out?

His name, obviously. Every. Single. Time. 

[DesertDweller]

I'm starting to think that we need some kind of a bullpen rotation to slow the game down and hold a lead (unless, as many believe, the extended high pace is part of an intentional losing strategy).

We keep blowing the doors off of people in the first half, only to get beat even worse in the second. Why, when we have a huge lead, do we not slow down the game and switch the focus to defense?

After last night's game, I was imagining constructing some kind of bizarro Celtics, where whenever Rondo, Turner, Green, Sullinger, and Olynyk manage to score 60 in the first half, we follow up with Smart, Bradley, Powell, Wallace, and Zeller in the second half to try to play Thib-style ball.

Do we possibly have a strength and conditioning problem???  I have never heard this discussed before on this forum!!!

[gpap]

I'm starting to think that we need some kind of a bullpen rotation to slow the game down and hold a lead (unless, as many believe, the extended high pace is part of an intentional losing strategy).

We keep blowing the doors off of people in the first half, only to get beat even worse in the second. Why, when we have a huge lead, do we not slow down the game and switch the focus to defense?

After last night's game, I was imagining constructing some kind of bizarro Celtics, where whenever Rondo, Turner, Green, Sullinger, and Olynyk manage to score 60 in the first half, we follow up with Smart, Bradley, Powell, Wallace, and Zeller in the second half to try to play Thib-style ball.

Do we possibly have a strength and conditioning problem???  I have never heard this discussed before on this forum!!!

Not a bad point.

I do also find it very strange that time after time, we blow big leads in the 4th quarter.

[PickNRoll]

I'm starting to think that we need some kind of a bullpen rotation to slow the game down and hold a lead (unless, as many believe, the extended high pace is part of an intentional losing strategy).

We keep blowing the doors off of people in the first half, only to get beat even worse in the second. Why, when we have a huge lead, do we not slow down the game and switch the focus to defense?

After last night's game, I was imagining constructing some kind of bizarro Celtics, where whenever Rondo, Turner, Green, Sullinger, and Olynyk manage to score 60 in the first half, we follow up with Smart, Bradley, Powell, Wallace, and Zeller in the second half to try to play Thib-style ball.

Do we possibly have a strength and conditioning problem???  I have never heard this discussed before on this forum!!!

The fanbase is surely gonna need a lot of strength and conviction to get through this year.  Better hit the gym.