Olynyk is one of the worst defenders in the league .

[Rosco917]

yeah, Zeller is slightly better. But better none the less. He's just so passive, and generally a step behind the action. He will get better. But he is not a leaper or very quick off his feet. He is a back center.

Obviously Sully and Kelly are not the answer on the defensive end, Sully has hope, paired with an long athletic center that stays at home in the paint, and I think his short coming will be somewhat covered up. He will always be a solid rebounder/scorer in this league.

Unfortunately we have two interior players that can't defend, can't leap, don't move their feet well, react slowly, and are young to boot.

Kelly O looks like he lost his dog, he's sad and lost in general, now its starting to effect is offense.

[MBunge]

Here are the defensive win shares for the Celtics.

Rondo .4
Green .2
Sully .2
KO .2
Bradley .1
Zeller .1
Smart .1
Bass .1
Turner .1
Pressey .1
Everybody else has a DWS of 0.

Mike

[KeepRondo]

this all this supposed to be a sudden revelation? this is exactly the point many posters have made since the draft.

in this way, olly is a bit like kevin love. love's value comes from his offense and rebounding. the only way he can justify his crappy defense is scoring, scoring, and then scoring some more while rebounding. now in cleveland, love is not longer the main scorer and therefore his defense is clearly eroding his value to the team. in minnesota he was an elite player, but he now is a very good scorer who lets in too many points.

with olly, he needs to put the ball in the basket to compensate for poor defense. simple. the trouble recently has been his inability or unwillingness to score. i dont know what the underlying reasons are for this slump, but he will snap out of it. i put the slump on him being unsure and inexperienced in the nba. he needs time to develop and gain a more aggressive mindset.

once olly starts scoring again, many of us will forgive his defense.

I guess first thing, Love may not be the best defender but he doesn't play clunky defense like Olynyk. Second, what is wrong with making Olynyk earn his minutes? He has potential but he needs to get tougher out there and more agile if possible. There's also players out playing him and getting considerably less minutes.

so we basically agree. good.  the possible problem from our posts' ideas is how is olly to become more aggressive and gain confidence if he doesnt get minutes? and how is he to get minutes if he has to earn them by being more aggressive and confident?

this is stevens' dilemma as a coach. how to get olly to perform to his potential? for me, this is a player development year, so i would care about loses and wins as long as olly develops.

I see your points but why not let Young play if this is a development year? I think a good argument can be made that Young has more potential. But he's rightfully deemed not ready to play and has to earn his minutes. Olynyk has less competition at his position but I think he's been very inconsistent and still not ready. Yet he's getting more minutes over players clearly out playing him and NBA ready. It's a stretch comparison seeing that Young may be extremely raw but if we deem this a development year then let's see Young. Otherwise put the players in who earn their minutes.

I suppose I'm not ready to give up on the season yet. I just see better and more consistent players in Bass and Zeller over Olynyk.

[Who]

I worry about hurting Olynyk's trade value by sending him to the bench and decreasing his playing time. I'd almost rather keep him playing big minutes for now and trade somewhere else in January or February.

Do not see him as part of Celtics long term future.

[clover]

Here are the defensive win shares for the Celtics.

Rondo .4
Green .2
Sully .2
KO .2
Bradley .1
Zeller .1
Smart .1
Bass .1
Turner .1
Pressey .1
Everybody else has a DWS of 0.

Mike

Thank you. KO has some real defensive weaknesses, but he's doing some pretty decent things out there too.

[clover]

yeah, Zeller is slightly better. But better none the less. He's just so passive, and generally a step behind the action. He will get better. But he is not a leaper or very quick off his feet. He is a back center.

Obviously Sully and Kelly are not the answer on the defensive end, Sully has hope, paired with an long athletic center that stays at home in the paint, and I think his short coming will be somewhat covered up. He will always be a solid rebounder/scorer in this league.

Unfortunately we have two interior players that can't defend, can't leap, don't move their feet well, react slowly, and are young to boot.

Kelly O looks like he lost his dog, he's sad and lost in general, now its starting to effect is offense.

Actually I think an athletic center that stays at home in the paint complements KO's defense more than it does Sully's.

[clover]

And in the last minute of the game

Bonner rebounds over KO , Baynes give KO a facial dunk causing KO to fall down like a rag doll. So embarrassing how soft he is .

Yeah, when he gets down defensively he really gets down. It seems like he retreats to only trying to be in the right general spot rather than engaging at all.

But then, usually earlier in the game, he also has some very positive, active stretches.

[rondohondo]

yeah, Zeller is slightly better. But better none the less. He's just so passive, and generally a step behind the action. He will get better. But he is not a leaper or very quick off his feet. He is a back center.

Obviously Sully and Kelly are not the answer on the defensive end, Sully has hope, paired with an long athletic center that stays at home in the paint, and I think his short coming will be somewhat covered up. He will always be a solid rebounder/scorer in this league.

Unfortunately we have two interior players that can't defend, can't leap, don't move their feet well, react slowly, and are young to boot.

Kelly O looks like he lost his dog, he's sad and lost in general, now its starting to effect is offense.

Actually I think an athletic center that stays at home in the paint complements KO's defense more than it does Sully's.

It does ? Who do you trust more to grab a defensive rebound once our shot blocker goes for the block ? I take Sully over KO all day .

[greg683x]

I'm confused.

He was supposed to average about 20 and 10 this year.  Didnt you watch those last several games last year?

[Rosco917]

don't get me wrong...i think KO will someday be a valuable 6th man. I just think Sully is a better all around power forward. As strong as KO's strong points are, Sully has similar strong points, both are pretty good shooters, both pass very well, both handle the ball well for PF's.

I just think Sully is much more mature, with a more finished and rounded game. He simply has more confidence at this point in his career. Kelly has lost what his game is. He know he's not a center. He must be wondering where he fits. 

[LarBrd33]

I'm confused.

He was supposed to average about 20 and 10 this year.  Didnt you watch those last several games last year?

I think if Olynyk was starting at PF and getting 15 guaranteed shot attempts per night... he would put up numbers.  It was always obvious that Sully/Oly were not a long-term solution together... but now Olynyk's (predictable) ineptness as a defensive center means he's likely the one to get bench duty.  And it's starting to look more and more like he could be a long-term backup.   

[hwangjini_1]

this all this supposed to be a sudden revelation? this is exactly the point many posters have made since the draft.

in this way, olly is a bit like kevin love. love's value comes from his offense and rebounding. the only way he can justify his crappy defense is scoring, scoring, and then scoring some more while rebounding. now in cleveland, love is not longer the main scorer and therefore his defense is clearly eroding his value to the team. in minnesota he was an elite player, but he now is a very good scorer who lets in too many points.

with olly, he needs to put the ball in the basket to compensate for poor defense. simple. the trouble recently has been his inability or unwillingness to score. i dont know what the underlying reasons are for this slump, but he will snap out of it. i put the slump on him being unsure and inexperienced in the nba. he needs time to develop and gain a more aggressive mindset.

once olly starts scoring again, many of us will forgive his defense.

I guess first thing, Love may not be the best defender but he doesn't play clunky defense like Olynyk. Second, what is wrong with making Olynyk earn his minutes? He has potential but he needs to get tougher out there and more agile if possible. There's also players out playing him and getting considerably less minutes.

so we basically agree. good.  the possible problem from our posts' ideas is how is olly to become more aggressive and gain confidence if he doesnt get minutes? and how is he to get minutes if he has to earn them by being more aggressive and confident?

this is stevens' dilemma as a coach. how to get olly to perform to his potential? for me, this is a player development year, so i would care about loses and wins as long as olly develops.

I see your points but why not let Young play if this is a development year? I think a good argument can be made that Young has more potential. But he's rightfully deemed not ready to play and has to earn his minutes. Olynyk has less competition at his position but I think he's been very inconsistent and still not ready. Yet he's getting more minutes over players clearly out playing him and NBA ready. It's a stretch comparison seeing that Young may be extremely raw but if we deem this a development year then let's see Young. Otherwise put the players in who earn their minutes.

I suppose I'm not ready to give up on the season yet. I just see better and more consistent players in Bass and Zeller over Olynyk.

again, we seem to agree to agree. young, i do want to see him get minutes. but given his very young age and inexperience, i dont mind making use out of the dleague for this purpose. olly is more advanced, so he should fare better in the nba in terms of knowledge of the game.

young needs to develop defense, which he can do with practice and playing time. until then he contributes little to the team. olly was contributing, so the nba seems more appropriate than the dleague for him.

but if suddenty the celtics sent olly to the dleague and called up young, i wouldnt fuss too much.

[soulman]

I worry about hurting Olynyk's trade value by sending him to the bench and decreasing his playing time. I'd almost rather keep him playing big minutes for now and trade somewhere else in January or February.

Do not see him as part of Celtics long term future.

Same here!

[KeepRondo]

I'm confused.

He was supposed to average about 20 and 10 this year.  Didnt you watch those last several games last year?

I think if Olynyk was starting at PF and getting 15 guaranteed shot attempts per night... he would put up numbers.  It was always obvious that Sully/Oly were not a long-term solution together... but now Olynyk's (predictable) ineptness as a defensive center means he's likely the one to get bench duty.  And it's starting to look more and more like he could be a long-term backup.

He could turn out to be a great backup.

[rondohondo]