At 28 is Rondo past his prime?

[fitzhickey]

LarBrd33 really knows how to get under some people's skin 

[Celtics18]

LarBrd33 really knows how to get under some people's skin 

I don't know.  To be honest, I feel that Lar is the one who is past his prime.  He's starting to turn into a predictable caricature of himself. 

I, personally, no longer find his posts infuriating.  He doesn't seem to put as much heart into p---ing everyone off as he used to.

It's kind of a shame. 

[dasani]

LarBrd33 really knows how to get under some people's skin 

I don't know.  To be honest, I feel that Lar is the one who is past his prime.  He's starting to turn into a predictable caricature of himself. 

I, personally, no longer find his posts infuriating.  He doesn't seem to put as much heart into p---ing everyone off as he used to.

It's kind of a shame.

Ohh.. I agree. Tp.

[Vermont Green]

Past his "Peak" is different than past his "Prime".  To me, "Prime" infers a range of years whereas "Peak" implies the single best year.  I see most of the disagreement here relating to one person arguing about prime and another arguing about peak.

There does not seem to be a compelling argument that Rondo is beyond his prime years.  You could argue that the peak point of his career arc is behind him but so what.  It is only about what he has left and I think we will see a few more years of Rondo playing pretty close to Rondo playing at his peak.

There is also a big difference in opinion regarding just how good Rondo is (or was) at this theoretical "peak".  I feel that many Rondo advocates have a skewed opinion of just how good Rondo was (or is) because he got to play with the big 3 future HOFers.  Rondo can play for the next few years at exactly the same level as the previous years and he is not going to appear to be the same Rondo.  Rondo as the best player on a bad team will not be the same Rondo from the good teams.

When I see statements like "Rondo was the best player on such and such past Celtics team", I am really dismayed.  Rondo excelled on those teams because there were other HOF players on the team to protect him from his flaws.  Now on a bad team, these flaws are going to be more exposed and easier for other teams to exploit.  When this happens, some will clamor "see, I told you he was past his prime", from others we will hear, "Rondo has lost his explosiveness and isn't the same Rondo".

Rondo could still improve and reach new "peaks" and extend his prime years just by learning to shoot better.  This would more than offset any diminishment of athleticism, at least for a period of time.  If that happens, people will say, "you were wrong Vermont Green, see how good Rondo is", but it doesn't change the past.  The truth that I see is that to this point in his career, Rondo is a freakishly talented player who can't shoot and stubbornly tries too hard to get assists at the expense of good general ball movement.

[Adelaide Celt]

LarBrd33 really knows how to get under some people's skin 

I don't know.  To be honest, I feel that Lar is the one who is past his prime.  He's starting to turn into a predictable caricature of himself. 

I, personally, no longer find his posts infuriating.  He doesn't seem to put as much heart into p---ing everyone off as he used to.

It's kind of a shame.

How can you speak about the very last true believer of the Dwight Howard/Steve Nash era LA Lakers like that? Just because his oft-repeated prediction of them 'cruising to the Finals' turned out to be slightly inaccurate, is no reason to believe he is past his prime.

When the Celtics likely amble towards the 10th-12th pick in next year's draft, I expect him to come into his own again.

[Csfan1984]

Off topic of Rondo but side question on "prime years". If there is hgh testing would that have a large impact prime years?

[Celtics18]

When I see statements like "Rondo was the best player on such and such past Celtics team", I am really dismayed.  Rondo excelled on those teams because there were other HOF players on the team to protect him from his flaws.  Now on a bad team, these flaws are going to be more exposed and easier for other teams to exploit.  When this happens, some will clamor "see, I told you he was past his prime", from others we will hear, "Rondo has lost his explosiveness and isn't the same Rondo".

Let's consider the possibility that Rondo returns and plays like an all star this year, while helping to lead the team to a record around .500.

If that happens, then what will your response be. 

[Vermont Green]

When I see statements like "Rondo was the best player on such and such past Celtics team", I am really dismayed.  Rondo excelled on those teams because there were other HOF players on the team to protect him from his flaws.  Now on a bad team, these flaws are going to be more exposed and easier for other teams to exploit.  When this happens, some will clamor "see, I told you he was past his prime", from others we will hear, "Rondo has lost his explosiveness and isn't the same Rondo".

Let's consider the possibility that Rondo returns and plays like an all star this year, while helping to lead the team to a record around .500.

If that happens, then what will your response be.

That Pierce and Garnett were still the best players on those teams.  That Rondo is the best player on this team (probably unless Green or someone really surprises), and I will probably say that Rondo has improved his shooting to a point where other defenses actually cover him.

If Rondo is voted on the all star team, I will say it is a popularity contest.  If Rondo is chosen by the all star coach as a reserve, assuming 6 player ahead of him aren't injured, I will say I am surprised.

[Vermont Green]

When I see statements like "Rondo was the best player on such and such past Celtics team", I am really dismayed.  Rondo excelled on those teams because there were other HOF players on the team to protect him from his flaws.  Now on a bad team, these flaws are going to be more exposed and easier for other teams to exploit.  When this happens, some will clamor "see, I told you he was past his prime", from others we will hear, "Rondo has lost his explosiveness and isn't the same Rondo".

Let's consider the possibility that Rondo returns and plays like an all star this year, while helping to lead the team to a record around .500.

If that happens, then what will your response be.

What will you say if teams continue to sag off him and dare him to shoot, the team flounders, and Rondo get frustrated with all the losing?

[D.o.s.]

Jeremias Engelmann's APM aging curve

Aging curves differ per model, so there really isn't a definitive version. But APM is better than evaluating using PER and about as good, if not better, than WS. Regardless, the best answer to this question is we don't know. Although it leans more towards probably, than probably not.

People don't like it when you bring math into it. Just a heads up, they get shouty and dismissive.

[Celtics18]

When I see statements like "Rondo was the best player on such and such past Celtics team", I am really dismayed.  Rondo excelled on those teams because there were other HOF players on the team to protect him from his flaws.  Now on a bad team, these flaws are going to be more exposed and easier for other teams to exploit.  When this happens, some will clamor "see, I told you he was past his prime", from others we will hear, "Rondo has lost his explosiveness and isn't the same Rondo".

Let's consider the possibility that Rondo returns and plays like an all star this year, while helping to lead the team to a record around .500.

If that happens, then what will your response be.

What will you say if teams continue to sag off him and dare him to shoot, the team flounders, and Rondo get frustrated with all the losing?

I'll say, "that sucks."

[Celtics18]

Jeremias Engelmann's APM aging curve

Aging curves differ per model, so there really isn't a definitive version. But APM is better than evaluating using PER and about as good, if not better, than WS. Regardless, the best answer to this question is we don't know. Although it leans more towards probably, than probably not.

People don't like it when you bring math into it. Just a heads up, they get shouty and dismissive.

That seems like an unnecessary comment.  I must have missed all the shouty dismissiveness. 

[LarBrd33]

LarBrd33 really knows how to get under some people's skin 

I don't know.  To be honest, I feel that Lar is the one who is past his prime.  He's starting to turn into a predictable caricature of himself. 

I, personally, no longer find his posts infuriating.  He doesn't seem to put as much heart into p---ing everyone off as he used to.

It's kind of a shame.

Ohh.. I agree. Tp.

I agree too... ever since the Celtics stopped being relevant, LarBrd33 has been mailing it in.  LarBrd33's comments are as lackluster as the subpar bottomfeeder product being marched out currently with the celtic logo attached.  We can all hope that in 3-10 years if the team ever returns to playoff contention, LarBrd33 will stop half-assing his commentary.  I'm projecting that by 2018 (assuming Brooklyn struggles), LarBrd33's comments will be on the rise.

I think the Rondo discussion is pretty boring.   The whole "is Rondo washed up" is so 2013.  It's old news.  We've known for years that his best days are behind him.  He can still play ball if he ever gets healthy.  This whole debate is tired.  We might as well be arguing about whether or not Gerald Green will end up an all-star.

I feel like this entire organization is in limbo right now.  This team will be dramatically different in a few years and I doubt Rondo will be a part of the team... so whatever.