Author Topic: marcus smart...  (Read 12637 times)

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Re: marcus smart...
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2014, 10:12:18 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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120 - hih hopes indeed,,, ????

i think smart's offense is already leaps and bounds above where rondo's was when he entered the league. his jump shot has decent form and while he's no ray allen, i expect to be adequate offensively in short time...

i think he'll show he has a nose for the rim just as he has a nose for the ball on D.

also, didn't he have a couple 15-20 point games in summer league where he also drained several threes?
Completely disagree about smart and rondos offense at the start. Rondo was very clever and could get to the basket to score from the start.  He just could not shoot.  As someone said above, rondo couldn't shoot but he was/is a decent scorer.

Smart looks like he is and will be even more offensively challenged than rondo.  His form looks pretty bad to me so that would limit how good he could get.  But it's beyond shooting.  Smart had trouble finishing in summer league.  It will only get worse in the real games.  Smart is not a dynamic athlete either.

I agree with the other poster.  What we have is a defensive specialist.  But that doesn't mean we made the wrong choice or that smart won't be a good player.  What it does mean is that I don't think smart has star potential.

So based on ONE pre-season game. Smart is doomed to be a defensive specialist? He has offensive potential, being a fearless slasher and a player that loves the open court and he has good passing skills. He needs to work on his jump shot and shot selection, but I really believe Smart is a star.
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It's not about one game.  It's about evaluating the player and what he can do.  For instance, it's obvious he has great defensive potential and can be a disruptive force.  And I'm able to see that from ONE game.  So why can't i do the same with other facets of his game?

Re: marcus smart...
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2014, 11:23:18 AM »

Offline CapnDunks

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After seeing one game, I can be sure of one thing. Either Smart will be All NBA this year or will be in the D league before the trade deadline.

Re: marcus smart...
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2014, 11:23:41 AM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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I generally think you should always take the BPA, but if the Celtics end up re-signing Rondo for 5 years than it probably would have been better to draft for need. It would be different if Smart was a sure thing, but I don't see him as that right now. He's not going to be able to score consistently if he doesn't develop his shot because he's not a great finisher. His defensive ability is great but it won't be worth as much if the other skills don't materialize.

I'm not going to pretend like I know for sure who else the Celtics could have taken but I just know it doesn't make sense for Smart to play behind Rondo the next four years. If there was someone else they liked it at that pick (Stauskus? SGs are rare these days and he's shooting well in two preseason games) it might have made more sense to go in that direction or attempted to trade back.


Re: marcus smart...
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2014, 12:05:58 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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shrinkage36 -
that's exactly how i see smart. everyone was wailing about his slow start shooting in summer leagur - then he started scoring much better as he got comfortable. it seems like he has a settling in phase. he started pre-season the same way. like i said earlier, i expect him, as you also said, to pick up his offensive aggression and scoring as pre-season progresses. i also expext the same process for the regular season.

bass-thumper - not sure if you were joking or not about smart being a clutch shooter or not. but honestly he doesn't need to be. he can be a disruptive force defensively, distribute and be an opportunistic scorer. other guys can be go to scorers - everyone has a role.

why i like smart -

1 - he's an enforcer type - that will rub off on the whole team
2 - seems very team oriente
3 - seems like he has a lot of intangibles you can't teach
4 - defense wins rings - you put a good fefensive center in the paint - marc gasol... - and scorers at pf and the wings - you've got something going on now...

Re: marcus smart...
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2014, 12:14:31 PM »

Offline vjcsmoke

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Smart is already a stud defensively.  he has NBA-ready defense.  However I disagree with the label that he's just a 'defensive specialist'.  Was Scottie Pippen a defensive specialist just because he made the all-nba defensive team? 

Is Avery Bradly just going to be a 'defensive specialist', however we've already seen that he has become one of the more efficient 2 point shooters on the team and in the league.

Breakdown of AB's improvement as a shooter:
http://www.celticsblog.com/2014/8/21/5992239/look-for-avery-bradleys-development-to-take-an-important-step-back-2014-2015-prediction-bradley-nba

Marcus Smart does need to improve on his shooting.  Bottom line.  However 1 preseason game into his career is WAY TOO SOON to label him as a guy who will never become a scorer for this team.  Tony Parker coming into the NBA was a flat out BAD shooter.  Now he is one of the clutch scorers on a multi-championship Spurs team.  So let's not jump too conclusions about Smart's career propects yet.

I agree with the other poster.  What we have is a defensive specialist.  But that doesn't mean we made the wrong choice or that smart won't be a good player.  What it does mean is that I don't think smart has star potential.

Re: marcus smart...
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2014, 12:42:57 PM »

Online Vermont Green

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Even Kevin Durant took a few years to settle into the NBA.  His rookie season he was:

43%  FG%
29%  3FG%
20.3  PPG

Last Season:

50%  FG%
39%  3FG%
32.0  PPG

We are all going to have to wait to see what kind of player Smart is.  To me, right now, Smart appears to be ahead of where Chauncy Billups was as a rookie.  Smart may not continue to develop like Billups did or he may develop faster.  Bradley was horrible is entire rookie season until the last game against the Knicks and he has come along.

I don't know what Smart will ultimately be as a player but I have seen enough that I would not give up on him nor would I assume some low ceiling.  Right now, I think he is still a top PG prospect in the league but yes, still just a prospect.

Re: marcus smart...
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2014, 02:04:09 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Even Kevin Durant took a few years to settle into the NBA.  His rookie season he was:

43%  FG%
29%  3FG%
20.3  PPG

Last Season:

50%  FG%
39%  3FG%
32.0  PPG

We are all going to have to wait to see what kind of player Smart is.  To me, right now, Smart appears to be ahead of where Chauncy Billups was as a rookie.  Smart may not continue to develop like Billups did or he may develop faster.  Bradley was horrible is entire rookie season until the last game against the Knicks and he has come along.

I don't know what Smart will ultimately be as a player but I have seen enough that I would not give up on him nor would I assume some low ceiling.  Right now, I think he is still a top PG prospect in the league but yes, still just a prospect.
good post vg. thanks for putting out these sentiments and info. the level of over reaction here after a single pre-season game has been nothing short of amazing to me. tp for your efforts.
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Re: marcus smart...
« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2014, 02:35:07 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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why couldn't smart beside, behind, along with...rondo for four years -

rondo/smart/pressey
bradley/young/turner - not in that order, but you get the point re depth

with the expected windfall teams will get with the new tv contracts it actually makes a lot of sense.

major cash on rondo bradley and relatively small cash on smart/young rookie contracts - provides real stability in your backcourt. and a great rotation of players if smart and young pan out

Re: marcus smart...
« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2014, 02:36:43 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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when rondo's contract comes up in five years, smart is young grizzled vet at 25 - you make decisions from there.

Re: marcus smart...
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2014, 03:03:42 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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120 - hih hopes indeed,,, ????

i think smart's offense is already leaps and bounds above where rondo's was when he entered the league. his jump shot has decent form and while he's no ray allen, i expect to be adequate offensively in short time...

i think he'll show he has a nose for the rim just as he has a nose for the ball on D.

also, didn't he have a couple 15-20 point games in summer league where he also drained several threes?
Completely disagree about smart and rondos offense at the start. Rondo was very clever and could get to the basket to score from the start.  He just could not shoot.  As someone said above, rondo couldn't shoot but he was/is a decent scorer.

Smart looks like he is and will be even more offensively challenged than rondo.  His form looks pretty bad to me so that would limit how good he could get.  But it's beyond shooting.  Smart had trouble finishing in summer league.  It will only get worse in the real games.  Smart is not a dynamic athlete either.

I agree with the other poster.  What we have is a defensive specialist.  But that doesn't mean we made the wrong choice or that smart won't be a good player.  What it does mean is that I don't think smart has star potential.

I agree that Smart and Rondo are offensively challenged in very different ways. Marcus will likely never be the finisher that Rondo is but I do expect him to be an average perimeter shooter as he develops.
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Re: marcus smart...
« Reply #40 on: October 08, 2014, 04:00:20 PM »

Offline TwinTower14

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120 - hih hopes indeed,,, ????

i think smart's offense is already leaps and bounds above where rondo's was when he entered the league. his jump shot has decent form and while he's no ray allen, i expect to be adequate offensively in short time...

i think he'll show he has a nose for the rim just as he has a nose for the ball on D.

also, didn't he have a couple 15-20 point games in summer league where he also drained several threes?
Completely disagree about smart and rondos offense at the start. Rondo was very clever and could get to the basket to score from the start.  He just could not shoot.  As someone said above, rondo couldn't shoot but he was/is a decent scorer.

Smart looks like he is and will be even more offensively challenged than rondo.  His form looks pretty bad to me so that would limit how good he could get.  But it's beyond shooting.  Smart had trouble finishing in summer league.  It will only get worse in the real games.  Smart is not a dynamic athlete either.

I agree with the other poster.  What we have is a defensive specialist.  But that doesn't mean we made the wrong choice or that smart won't be a good player.  What it does mean is that I don't think smart has star potential.

I agree that Smart and Rondo are offensively challenged in very different ways. Marcus will likely never be the finisher that Rondo is but I do expect him to be an average perimeter shooter as he develops.

Went back and looked at Smart's draft scouting report on ESPN insider and one of the positives is that he finishes at the rim? So I am wondering why people are saying he can't do it??

Positive -
Strong, physical guard
Excellent penetrator
Good finisher at the basket
Excellent motor
Good rebounder for a guard
Can play both the point and the two
Super quick hands, racks up steals
Natural leader
Super competitive
High character player

Negatives   
A bit of a tweener
Undersized for his position if playing the two
Not particularly long
Needs to get more consistency on his perimeter shot

Re: marcus smart...
« Reply #41 on: October 08, 2014, 04:23:00 PM »

Offline DarkAzcura

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120 - hih hopes indeed,,, ????

i think smart's offense is already leaps and bounds above where rondo's was when he entered the league. his jump shot has decent form and while he's no ray allen, i expect to be adequate offensively in short time...

i think he'll show he has a nose for the rim just as he has a nose for the ball on D.

also, didn't he have a couple 15-20 point games in summer league where he also drained several threes?
Completely disagree about smart and rondos offense at the start. Rondo was very clever and could get to the basket to score from the start.  He just could not shoot.  As someone said above, rondo couldn't shoot but he was/is a decent scorer.

Smart looks like he is and will be even more offensively challenged than rondo.  His form looks pretty bad to me so that would limit how good he could get.  But it's beyond shooting.  Smart had trouble finishing in summer league.  It will only get worse in the real games.  Smart is not a dynamic athlete either.

I agree with the other poster.  What we have is a defensive specialist.  But that doesn't mean we made the wrong choice or that smart won't be a good player.  What it does mean is that I don't think smart has star potential.

I agree that Smart and Rondo are offensively challenged in very different ways. Marcus will likely never be the finisher that Rondo is but I do expect him to be an average perimeter shooter as he develops.

Went back and looked at Smart's draft scouting report on ESPN insider and one of the positives is that he finishes at the rim? So I am wondering why people are saying he can't do it??

Positive -
Strong, physical guard
Excellent penetrator
Good finisher at the basket
Excellent motor
Good rebounder for a guard
Can play both the point and the two
Super quick hands, racks up steals
Natural leader
Super competitive
High character player

Negatives   
A bit of a tweener
Undersized for his position if playing the two
Not particularly long
Needs to get more consistency on his perimeter shot

Don't worry. You are exactly right. Smart's strength is his ability to drive to the rim, finish, and create contact. He was the best attacking guard in college basketball last year with a 65% FG around the rim. He also had an absurdly high free throw rate. Smart hasn't played "his brand" of basketball yet. He's usually extremely aggressive and a little turnover prone because of it.

He's been trying to play more in control like a pure PG since summer league. I'm sure that was something the Celtics are having him work on, and it's not easy to make that adjustment and find the balance between being aggressive to score and making the right pass. Rondo struggled with this balance earlier in his career (passing up open layups), but his passing was always elite so it was never incredibly obvious.

120 - hih hopes indeed,,, ????

i think smart's offense is already leaps and bounds above where rondo's was when he entered the league. his jump shot has decent form and while he's no ray allen, i expect to be adequate offensively in short time...

i think he'll show he has a nose for the rim just as he has a nose for the ball on D.

also, didn't he have a couple 15-20 point games in summer league where he also drained several threes?
Completely disagree about smart and rondos offense at the start. Rondo was very clever and could get to the basket to score from the start.  He just could not shoot.  As someone said above, rondo couldn't shoot but he was/is a decent scorer.

Smart looks like he is and will be even more offensively challenged than rondo.  His form looks pretty bad to me so that would limit how good he could get.  But it's beyond shooting.  Smart had trouble finishing in summer league.  It will only get worse in the real games.  Smart is not a dynamic athlete either.

I agree with the other poster.  What we have is a defensive specialist.  But that doesn't mean we made the wrong choice or that smart won't be a good player.  What it does mean is that I don't think smart has star potential.

So based on ONE pre-season game. Smart is doomed to be a defensive specialist? He has offensive potential, being a fearless slasher and a player that loves the open court and he has good passing skills. He needs to work on his jump shot and shot selection, but I really believe Smart is a star.
Celticsblog  ::)
It's not about one game.  It's about evaluating the player and what he can do.  For instance, it's obvious he has great defensive potential and can be a disruptive force.  And I'm able to see that from ONE game.  So why can't i do the same with other facets of his game?

It's not fair because it's pretty clear he hasn't played his aggressive style of basketball on the offensive end quite yet. He's not forcing his offense and drives like he did in college (successfully I might add), and he's focusing more on learning how to play like a pure PG. If you watched him in college, you'd know that he is playing a bit slower and more in control right now rather than going all out driving to the hoop.

His defense automatically translates to the NBA like most defensive guards. It's easier to understand he is NBA ready on the defensive end after only a couple games. It's harder to know where he is at offensively since he really hasn't played "his game" yet.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 04:29:15 PM by DarkAzcura »

Re: marcus smart...
« Reply #42 on: October 08, 2014, 04:25:58 PM »

Offline manl_lui

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120 - hih hopes indeed,,, ????

i think smart's offense is already leaps and bounds above where rondo's was when he entered the league. his jump shot has decent form and while he's no ray allen, i expect to be adequate offensively in short time...

i think he'll show he has a nose for the rim just as he has a nose for the ball on D.

also, didn't he have a couple 15-20 point games in summer league where he also drained several threes?
Completely disagree about smart and rondos offense at the start. Rondo was very clever and could get to the basket to score from the start.  He just could not shoot.  As someone said above, rondo couldn't shoot but he was/is a decent scorer.

Smart looks like he is and will be even more offensively challenged than rondo.  His form looks pretty bad to me so that would limit how good he could get.  But it's beyond shooting.  Smart had trouble finishing in summer league.  It will only get worse in the real games.  Smart is not a dynamic athlete either.

I agree with the other poster.  What we have is a defensive specialist.  But that doesn't mean we made the wrong choice or that smart won't be a good player.  What it does mean is that I don't think smart has star potential.

I agree that Smart and Rondo are offensively challenged in very different ways. Marcus will likely never be the finisher that Rondo is but I do expect him to be an average perimeter shooter as he develops.

Went back and looked at Smart's draft scouting report on ESPN insider and one of the positives is that he finishes at the rim? So I am wondering why people are saying he can't do it??

Positive -
Strong, physical guard
Excellent penetrator
Good finisher at the basket
Excellent motor
Good rebounder for a guard
Can play both the point and the two
Super quick hands, racks up steals
Natural leader
Super competitive
High character player

Negatives   
A bit of a tweener
Undersized for his position if playing the two
Not particularly long
Needs to get more consistency on his perimeter shot

Don't worry. You are exactly right. Smart's strength is his ability to drive to the rim, finish, and create contact. He was the best attacking guard in college basketball last year with a 65% FG around the rim. He also had an absurdly high free throw rate. Smart hasn't played "his" brand of basketball yet. He's usually extremely aggressive and a little turnover prone because of it.

He's been trying to play more in control like a pure PG since summer league. I'm sure that was something the Celtics are having him work on, and it's not easy to make that adjustment and find the balance between being aggressive to score and making the right pass. Rondo struggled with this balance earlier in his career (passing up open layups), but his passing was always elite so it was never incredibly obvious.

that's an excellent point. From the college scouting reports, Smart is more of an attacking guard than he is a passer (not that I'm saying he doesn't pass). I believe since the summer league he is making some sort of adjustment that is hindering his offense. Good thing his defense is still very elite

Re: marcus smart...
« Reply #43 on: October 09, 2014, 12:27:50 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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and....

smart goes 4-8 overall shooting, including 2-4 from 3 point land for 11 points in his 'second' nba game....

kind of exactly like he slowly heated up in summer league...

i fully expect a 15-20 point game from him before the pre-season ends.

this isn't a told you so follow up post - i just don't understand how people think his offense is so horrific.

he averaged 18 a game in college and had some downright explosive outings as well. he also heated up as summer league progressed.

this guy just has a settling in period - imho.

he will be inconsistent like a lot of rookies, but his shot has decent form and he has a nose for the rim.

i'm excited about his overall potential

Re: marcus smart...
« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2014, 12:47:01 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Rondo will need to play the motion offense , read and react ..whatever ....

If he does not and pounds the ball

He'll be traded