Author Topic: I gotta admit the more i hear, the less i'm liking Stevens  (Read 17853 times)

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Re: I gotta admit the more i hear, the less i'm liking Stevens
« Reply #60 on: October 04, 2014, 12:52:58 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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I'd rather have an automatic midrange shooter than a great 3-point shooter, but that's just me.

Re: I gotta admit the more i hear, the less i'm liking Stevens
« Reply #61 on: October 04, 2014, 01:05:38 AM »

Offline pokeKingCurtis

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Bass isn't gonna shoot all his shots from 3.

This gives him another role on the floor. He would be able to camp in the corner (if he becomes a credible threat).

He'd be automatic from mid-, as well as being a 3 point threat.

Re: I gotta admit the more i hear, the less i'm liking Stevens
« Reply #62 on: October 04, 2014, 01:22:37 AM »

Offline DarkAzcura

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No offense but your reasoning sounds exactly like "old guy yelling at cloud". You want your big men to be "traditional" regardless of what the numbers say. That's just not smart basketball. If Bass can shoot the 3 at 33-35%, his value will skyrocket, point blank. The mid-range shot is the most inefficient shot in the game and is largely being phased out other than in iso situations. Pick and pop mid-range shots at high volumes is just not an appealing skill set if you don't have incredible D or rebounding to make up for it.

Bass takes most of his shots from mid-range. Why wouldn't you want him to replace those mid-range shots with the occasional 3? This is the same reason I don't understand why people had an issue with Sully shooting 3s. If they are simply replacing their mid-range game with some 3s mixed in, who cares? It's better for the team if they can hit them instead of the long 2.

Re: I gotta admit the more i hear, the less i'm liking Stevens
« Reply #63 on: October 04, 2014, 01:46:53 AM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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just because the mid-range shot is being phased out and more 3's are being taken doesn't make it better basketball.

Re: I gotta admit the more i hear, the less i'm liking Stevens
« Reply #64 on: October 04, 2014, 02:38:06 AM »

Offline DarkAzcura

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just because the mid-range shot is being phased out and more 3's are being taken doesn't make it better basketball.

No, that's exactly what it means. 33% FG from 3 is essentially 50% from 2. If Bass can hit even 33% from 3, the shot is already more effective than his mid-range shot. This leads to a more efficient offense. Your original post called the 3 point shot the least efficient shot. That's just objectively false no matter how you feel about the purity of being a big man.

The only negative to 3 point shots are more misses, which can potentially lead to more fast break opportunities. On the other side, longer shots mean longer rebounds, which means more offensive rebounds so it balances out.

He hit 38% of his shots from 16-23 feet. Bass takes 29% of his FGA from 16-23 feet in his career. If he replaces some of that 29% with the corner 3 from 22 feet and manages ~30-33% from this area, it becomes a far more potent weapon than his ~40% 16-23 foot shot. Typically Bass actually shoots 45-47% from 16-23 foot, but 30-33% from 3 is just as good as this percentage considering the point values. When you consider the superior floor spacing, it's a no brainer that Bass should substitute some of that 29% FGA from 16-23 feet in 3PT land.

55% of Bass's FGA comes from 10-23 feet for his career. Those are all jump shots. If you are going to be a jump shooting big, you should be trying to develop at least the corner 3 to mix around with. This isn't going to take away from his post/inside opportunities. The 3PT shot will come from this 55% number. Replacing a jump shot for another jump shot. Just a more effective/efficient one as long as he can actually hit it.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 02:46:25 AM by DarkAzcura »

Re: I gotta admit the more i hear, the less i'm liking Stevens
« Reply #65 on: October 04, 2014, 03:57:03 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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just because the mid-range shot is being phased out and more 3's are being taken doesn't make it better basketball.

No, that's exactly what it means. 33% FG from 3 is essentially 50% from 2. If Bass can hit even 33% from 3, the shot is already more effective than his mid-range shot. This leads to a more efficient offense. Your original post called the 3 point shot the least efficient shot. That's just objectively false no matter how you feel about the purity of being a big man.

The only negative to 3 point shots are more misses, which can potentially lead to more fast break opportunities. On the other side, longer shots mean longer rebounds, which means more offensive rebounds so it balances out.

He hit 38% of his shots from 16-23 feet. Bass takes 29% of his FGA from 16-23 feet in his career. If he replaces some of that 29% with the corner 3 from 22 feet and manages ~30-33% from this area, it becomes a far more potent weapon than his ~40% 16-23 foot shot. Typically Bass actually shoots 45-47% from 16-23 foot, but 30-33% from 3 is just as good as this percentage considering the point values. When you consider the superior floor spacing, it's a no brainer that Bass should substitute some of that 29% FGA from 16-23 feet in 3PT land.

55% of Bass's FGA comes from 10-23 feet for his career. Those are all jump shots. If you are going to be a jump shooting big, you should be trying to develop at least the corner 3 to mix around with. This isn't going to take away from his post/inside opportunities. The 3PT shot will come from this 55% number. Replacing a jump shot for another jump shot. Just a more effective/efficient one as long as he can actually hit it.

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner, and long shots = long rebounds which often serve to trigger the fast break.  Most offensive rebounds, when they happen (which is a rarity in today's game), typically occur around the basket.  An offensive rebound is rarely gathered near the 3 point line, and, the more times you miss, the more transition opportunities you give to your opponent, which means that you have to constantly sprint back on defense, which starts to tire your guys out, which further drops their shooting percentages, which lead to more misses, which lead to more long rebounds, which gives the opposition more break chances, and the whole thing feeds itself.  That was the principal emphasis of Showtime and every other fast break team, and by taking 3s instead of posting up, slashing, or cutting to the basket, you don't put any fouls on the other team, so you don't get any free throws, which, aside from the dunk or layup, is the highest percentage shot in the game because no one is sticking a hand in your face.  Perimeter shooting, for the most part, comes and goes, and if you're relying solely on guys to make a million jump shots, then you're bailing out the defense, and what happens when you go cold?  You need to be able to get offensive rebounds and free throw attempts so that your offensive droughts are minimal.  Didn't you ever see Bird's teams play?  Basketball is won in the paint, not on the 3-point line.  Most of these great 3 point shooters are so one dimensional that they can't even dribble or get to the hoop if someone runs them off the line.  It's like they're allergic to the midrange game and the paint.  One of the ways Miami neutralized San Antonio's 3 point barrage at times in 2013 was when they made Danny Green put it on the floor - something that he's still a considerable ways away from even looking comfortable doing it ;D.  The 3 point shot is streaky, but free throws are forever ;) haha ;D

Re: I gotta admit the more i hear, the less i'm liking Stevens
« Reply #66 on: October 04, 2014, 07:11:52 AM »

Offline More Banners

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I'm surprised the corps of folks who want big guys in the LOW post (my favorite game to play) don't remember how nice it was for a trailing big on the break to walk into a 3, like Raef Lafrenz, Rasheed when he was on, etc.  They could also play in the post.

Bass will never be tall enough to be a low post threat, and he won't REALLY get paid as an average Joe.  The 3pt is his best chance at his likely last big payday.

Re: I gotta admit the more i hear, the less i'm liking Stevens
« Reply #67 on: October 04, 2014, 09:14:42 AM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Bass developing a decent 3 pt shot would be a welcome addition. I mean, if you are going to shoot jumpers as much as he does, unless you have KG levels of accuracy, it's probably better to extend your range if you can.

The C's might as well see what they have there, if for nothing else, than to increase his trade value.

Re: I gotta admit the more i hear, the less i'm liking Stevens
« Reply #68 on: October 04, 2014, 09:28:40 AM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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like I said if he hits 2/3 a night i'll be happy and it will have been worth the time he put in and all the time he could be looking for a rebound.

but if he goes 2/3 one night and 0/6 the next 2 games i'd rather rondo shoot the ball from out there. at least his reason for taking most of his 3's is because the shot clock is winding down.

Re: I gotta admit the more i hear, the less i'm liking Stevens
« Reply #69 on: October 04, 2014, 09:31:35 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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like I said if he hits 2/3 a night i'll be happy and it will have been worth the time he put in and all the time he could be looking for a rebound.

but if he goes 2/3 one night and 0/6 the next 2 games i'd rather rondo shoot the ball from out there. at least his reason for taking most of his 3's is because the shot clock is winding down.

67% shooter... glad you set your standards low.

Re: I gotta admit the more i hear, the less i'm liking Stevens
« Reply #70 on: October 04, 2014, 09:54:23 AM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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like I said if he hits 2/3 a night i'll be happy and it will have been worth the time he put in and all the time he could be looking for a rebound.

but if he goes 2/3 one night and 0/6 the next 2 games i'd rather rondo shoot the ball from out there. at least his reason for taking most of his 3's is because the shot clock is winding down.

The time he could be looking for a rebound?  You realize the guy has a per 36 career average of 2.4 offensive rebounds, right?  That isn't indicative of a good rebounder; he's mediocre at best in that regard.  Bass taking a few threes to replace some of the long twos he already looks to take isn't going to meaningfully impact his rebounding and it's absurd to suggest otherwise.  He's out of rebound position much of the time, anyway.  He's grabbed 8% of available offensive rebounds for his career and has been under 8% his entire time in Boston; for comparison, after two years, Sullinger's at 12.9%.

He's made a name for himself as a jump shooter.  For whatever reason, it's like you keep ignoring this in favor of painting some alternate reality where Bass is a rebound-gobbling, low post monster.  The VAST majority of his shots attempted for much of his career have been from 10 feet out to the 3 point line.  He's consistently shot more mid-range jumpers than he has taken shots at the rim since his first year in Dallas.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 10:00:25 AM by Endless Paradise »

Re: I gotta admit the more i hear, the less i'm liking Stevens
« Reply #71 on: October 04, 2014, 10:27:44 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
The time he could be looking for a rebound?  You realize the guy has a per 36 career average of 2.4 offensive rebounds, right?  That isn't indicative of a good rebounder; he's mediocre at best in that regard.  Bass taking a few threes to replace some of the long twos he already looks to take isn't going to meaningfully impact his rebounding and it's absurd to suggest otherwise.  He's out of rebound position much of the time, anyway.  He's grabbed 8% of available offensive rebounds for his career and has been under 8% his entire time in Boston; for comparison, after two years, Sullinger's at 12.9%.

He's made a name for himself as a jump shooter.  For whatever reason, it's like you keep ignoring this in favor of painting some alternate reality where Bass is a rebound-gobbling, low post monster.  The VAST majority of his shots attempted for much of his career have been from 10 feet out to the 3 point line.  He's consistently shot more mid-range jumpers than he has taken shots at the rim since his first year in Dallas.

You nailed this TP!

Re: I gotta admit the more i hear, the less i'm liking Stevens
« Reply #72 on: October 04, 2014, 10:30:44 AM »

Offline GreenWarrior

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like I said if he hits 2/3 a night i'll be happy and it will have been worth the time he put in and all the time he could be looking for a rebound.

but if he goes 2/3 one night and 0/6 the next 2 games i'd rather rondo shoot the ball from out there. at least his reason for taking most of his 3's is because the shot clock is winding down.

The time he could be looking for a rebound?  You realize the guy has a per 36 career average of 2.4 offensive rebounds, right?  That isn't indicative of a good rebounder; he's mediocre at best in that regard.  Bass taking a few threes to replace some of the long twos he already looks to take isn't going to meaningfully impact his rebounding and it's absurd to suggest otherwise.  He's out of rebound position much of the time, anyway.  He's grabbed 8% of available offensive rebounds for his career and has been under 8% his entire time in Boston; for comparison, after two years, Sullinger's at 12.9%.

He's made a name for himself as a jump shooter.  For whatever reason, it's like you keep ignoring this in favor of painting some alternate reality where Bass is a rebound-gobbling, low post monster.  The VAST majority of his shots attempted for much of his career have been from 10 feet out to the 3 point line.  He's consistently shot more mid-range jumpers than he has taken shots at the rim since his first year in Dallas.

I think everyone else is making a bigger deal out of this than me. I want the dude gone cause I didn't like his game to begin with as far as fitting with this team goes. he adds nothing to this team. 

Re: I gotta admit the more i hear, the less i'm liking Stevens
« Reply #73 on: October 04, 2014, 10:57:18 AM »

Offline Endless Paradise

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If you don't want Bass around, that's totally fine.  But it's ridiculous to suggest that Bass shooting threes is somehow a negative development when he already primarily feasts off mid-range jumpers.  It's also ridiculous to suggest that Stevens should be criticized for encouraging it.

Re: I gotta admit the more i hear, the less i'm liking Stevens
« Reply #74 on: October 04, 2014, 11:16:11 AM »

Offline Onslaught

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