Sullinger and Ray Rice

[RJ87]

"Different levels of domestic violence." Wow, I can't believe I just read that. This thread is an embarrassment and as a female, I've lost a lot of respect for several posters I had once admired.

Anyone who honestly thinks the Sullinger incident isn't as bad as the Ray Rice incident is delusional. The only difference is that there was no video of what Jared did. And just because that was the only publicized incident with Jared, doesn't mean it was the first or the last. Domestic violence just doesn't pop up out of nowhere, there's always a history.

Wait a minute. I have to admit I am under the impression that just from a legal and technical perspective there are different levels of domestic violence, but not just domestic, but really any violence. Hence assault and battery vs simple assault and manslaughter vs first degree murder, etc. 
I am under the impression for right or wrong authorities have to make decisions about various levels of violence all the time.

I just don't think I can say all violence is the same all the time.

Go to a support group for domestic violence survivors and say that, I guarantee you'll feel differently by the end of it.

When my younger cousin was 14, she met a boy and fell in love. They dated throughout high school, despite multiple his multiple arrests for slapping her, pushing her, and threatening her. I guess those offenses werent voilent enough. 4 years ago, he killed her in front of their 2 young children before turning the gun on himself. Our legal system hasn't caught up to the real threats women face everyday.

Would you say I should go to a support group for male victims or female victims or sexual assault victims, or emotional/verbal abuse victims, or child domestic survivors, or groups where the couples hurt each other, or just any group?

Take your pick. I'm sure your belittling of the issues and "all violence isn't the same" schtick would be met with the same level of appreciation.

[loco_91]

I didn't follow this incident, but I hope that Brad Stevens will sit the guys down and talk to them about this stuff. Domestic violence is despicable in all forms, not only when there is a graphic video. I don't see why people think it is OK to hit women, ever.

[zimbo]

  If you somehow think that "I don't see the point of this thread" speaks to someone's views on domestic violence then you're the victim of an overactive imagination.

Really BBallTim? I am a victim of overactive imagination because someone dismissed the thread with a comment like ""I don't see the point of this thread" and not offering anything of substance as to why.

Like RJ87 this thread has disappointed me in some of the male posters. I usually like your takes on the Celtics, but I guess this is not about the Celtics.

I stand by what I said. In my opinion, those sentiments were disturbing.

  Sometimes when people say "I don't see the point of this thread" they expound upon why they started the thread so it's clearer to people. It's not as disturbing as you might imagine. The OP seemed to be reminding people that Sully had also been involved in a DV issue, that there was no video of the incident, and that he hoped Sully learned from the incident and became a better person because of it. I'm not sure the point of starting a thread to say that.

Well I am guessing in light of the Ray Rice thing, the OP might have wanted to point out that we have a player on the roster who has been involved in domestic violence (again I'm just assuming). There was no video or even a 911 call (seems like sully prevented that though). The C's suspended him for the opener (for the bad press; again my assumption). The court system let him off like Rice.

Regardless of the the OPs intention. I saw the first several comments and reacted. I also think this Sully thing was swept under the carpet. Much like the Ravens/NFL did. So, there was a point of the thread. I assume that the people who asked "what's the point" were just trying to avoid the controversial topic and act like one of our players "weren't that type of guy". Again, my assumptions, opinions, and interpretations.

[Eja117]

"Different levels of domestic violence." Wow, I can't believe I just read that. This thread is an embarrassment and as a female, I've lost a lot of respect for several posters I had once admired.

Anyone who honestly thinks the Sullinger incident isn't as bad as the Ray Rice incident is delusional. The only difference is that there was no video of what Jared did. And just because that was the only publicized incident with Jared, doesn't mean it was the first or the last. Domestic violence just doesn't pop up out of nowhere, there's always a history.

Wait a minute. I have to admit I am under the impression that just from a legal and technical perspective there are different levels of domestic violence, but not just domestic, but really any violence. Hence assault and battery vs simple assault and manslaughter vs first degree murder, etc. 
I am under the impression for right or wrong authorities have to make decisions about various levels of violence all the time.

I just don't think I can say all violence is the same all the time.

Go to a support group for domestic violence survivors and say that, I guarantee you'll feel differently by the end of it.

When my younger cousin was 14, she met a boy and fell in love. They dated throughout high school, despite multiple his multiple arrests for slapping her, pushing her, and threatening her. I guess those offenses werent voilent enough. 4 years ago, he killed her in front of their 2 young children before turning the gun on himself. Our legal system hasn't caught up to the real threats women face everyday.

Would you say I should go to a support group for male victims or female victims or sexual assault victims, or emotional/verbal abuse victims, or child domestic survivors, or groups where the couples hurt each other, or just any group?

Take your pick. I'm sure your belittling of the issues and "all violence isn't the same" schtick would be met with the same level of appreciation.

Well it's not really the place I would go to try to have a rational discussion on the topic, just like I wouldn't go to a place for PTSD combat survivors to try to discuss foreign policy in Iraq or something, and I'm sure if I actually did belittle these issues they would react negatively. 

[Beat LA]

I wanted him traded and still do, but I can somewhat understand why maybe a lot of people disagree with me.

Me, too, I think it shows definite characters issues and may explain all those flagrant fouls.  Refs remember.

Same here.  As soon as I got wind of that story I wanted him gone, and this only makes Ainge look like a hypocrite in keeping a player like Sullinger after years of him saying that he only wanted players of high character.  Yes, he's very talented, but that doesn't outweigh what happened.  Can't we just trade him to the Lakers for Randle?  They seem to have no problem with guys who have committed even the most heinous of crimes (Kobe, cough, cough).

[Eja117]

I wanted him traded and still do, but I can somewhat understand why maybe a lot of people disagree with me.

Me, too, I think it shows definite characters issues and may explain all those flagrant fouls.  Refs remember.

Same here.  As soon as I got wind of that story I wanted him gone, and this only makes Ainge look like a hypocrite in keeping a player like Sullinger after years of him saying that he only wanted players of high character.  Yes, he's very talented, but that doesn't outweigh what happened.  Can't we just trade him to the Lakers for Randle?  They seem to have no problem with guys who have committed even the most heinous of crimes (Kobe, cough, cough).

Part of me is starting to wonder if that's a good idea. I mean it just moves the problem somewhere else. It might make more sense to take responsibility and keep him and make sure he gets help and whatnot.  Otherwise you sort of reward him. He gets a fresh new start and doesn't lose a dime.

[celticdog]

"Can we really expect these 'gladiators' that thrive on our cheers for the harder hits to behave like normal beings once off the field? You train brutes, yet think because you put them in an Armani suit turns them into gentlemen. "

Wait wait wait.  Don't we have actual soldiers in society that are actually trained to kill? Don't we have actual guards with actual weapons? Don't we have actual Secret Service members etc, that deal with actual violence and problems all the time? And by most measures aren't most of these people fairly well adjusted? Aren't many of them actually considered heroes and our finest? Yeah. I would say we probably can expect them to be fine individuals off the field.

Sadly the rate of domestic violence  within military families is higher than that of civilian families.

[celticdog]

When the Sullinger story broke out and I thought it should be investigated I was accused of trying to start a lynch mob. 

2014.  Guess we can talk about it now cause Rice broke the ice.  After all Rice isnt our guy.  Imagine if a Laker had done what Sully was reported to have done 

[Eja117]

"Can we really expect these 'gladiators' that thrive on our cheers for the harder hits to behave like normal beings once off the field? You train brutes, yet think because you put them in an Armani suit turns them into gentlemen. "

Wait wait wait.  Don't we have actual soldiers in society that are actually trained to kill? Don't we have actual guards with actual weapons? Don't we have actual Secret Service members etc, that deal with actual violence and problems all the time? And by most measures aren't most of these people fairly well adjusted? Aren't many of them actually considered heroes and our finest? Yeah. I would say we probably can expect them to be fine individuals off the field.

Sadly the rate of domestic violence  within military families is higher than that of civilian families.

But that is what we might expect. It's also not ok or excusable. So the answer to the question is "yes". Yes we can expect people to play football and not beat their significant others.

[Ogaju]

let me be the first to tell you that your expectation, without education and counseling, is unrealistic.

[Eja117]

let me be the first to tell you that your expectation, without education and counseling, is unrealistic.

We have to counsel and educate football players and pro athletes not to break violent laws now? Sorry. That's why we build jails. Ray Rice should be in jail. If he wants to pay for his own counseling then fine. He can have counseling, find Jesus, Vishnu, Islam, and Bhudda if he wants. Get a doctorate. But he should also go to jail.

[Ogaju]

yeah he should go to jail, but just don't expect the next steroid-filled football player you are breeding to be any better. Because if you do, you will be disappointed.

[GreenWarrior]

i'm just going to throw this out there because I think it gets lost in all of this. I don't see why these leagues are being held accountable for something the police should be doing.

one thing that bother me in this Ray Rice incident is while it is heinous. domestic violence doesn't have anything to do with the function of the league. imo this is way more a police matter than anything. the NFL's only responsibility here, should have been them suspending Rice for being charged, jail time you name it. they shouldn't have had to be judge & jury.

now the way they did handle, it is just outright insane for a multi-billion dollar company.

I think it's kind of ridiculous the way it became the NFL's responsibility and no one looked in the Law Enforcement's direction. but in todays world we want jobs taken away, law suits and big mean companies brought to their knees...

[BballTim]

"Different levels of domestic violence." Wow, I can't believe I just read that. This thread is an embarrassment and as a female, I've lost a lot of respect for several posters I had once admired.

Anyone who honestly thinks the Sullinger incident isn't as bad as the Ray Rice incident is delusional. The only difference is that there was no video of what Jared did. And just because that was the only publicized incident with Jared, doesn't mean it was the first or the last. Domestic violence just doesn't pop up out of nowhere, there's always a history.

Wait a minute. I have to admit I am under the impression that just from a legal and technical perspective there are different levels of domestic violence, but not just domestic, but really any violence. Hence assault and battery vs simple assault and manslaughter vs first degree murder, etc. 
I am under the impression for right or wrong authorities have to make decisions about various levels of violence all the time.

I just don't think I can say all violence is the same all the time.

Absolutely agree with this eja... 

But since we are all "delustional" as per RJ87, how is a man pushing her wife the same thing as a shooting her with a gun?  Is grabbing someone's arm to try to calm them down the same thing as knocking them cold with a punch to the face.  The law absolutely dictates that there are different levels of violence and the punishment for those crimes are different. 

No one here is saying domestic violence is acceptable.  That isn't even a discussion.  But there are absolutely levels of violent acts, and different punishments for those acts.  The whole initial post of this thread was to try and connect what Sullinger did to what Ray Rice did.  Based on the facts / information that have been released, those were definitely not the same thing. 

But by RJ87's definition we are all delusional...smh

I've already addressed this, but I will again since you either failed to acknowledge it or didn't read it all. I think the law hasn't caught up to domestic violence. These occurrences are rarely one-offs and are often symptomatic of a much bigger issue.  Why is that a victim has to be severely hurt or killed before anything is taken seriously?

The law isn't designed to protect victims. A woman (or a man, because men can be abused too) can have her significant other arrested for slapping her or grabbing her or pushing her, but those are relatively minor offenses so they're let go with - for lack of better words - a slap on the wrist, while the society at large is inclined to look the other way. What's to stop them from escalating? I think looking at an incident and saying "well, he only grabbed her" or "gee, he just slapped her once" is a part of the problem. If people took these "minor" offenses seriously, more victims could be saved.

  I think this is somewhat unavoidable though, isn't it? You can only punish people for the crimes they commit, not for the crimes that they may or may not commit in the future.

[Celtics4ever]

The two reasons people view Sully's incident differently are:

1) They didn't see it.  Many more people turned on Rice once they saw it.   Until then there was some pressure on Goodell but after that video it changed every thing.   I am not sure that Sully had his been seen would be a Celtic today.  Visual evidence is very powerful.  A photoframe paints a thousand words and instead of seeing one side you also see the victim get hurt.

2) He is a Celtic.  To some fans our guys can do no wrong.   I am sure, if you think about it, you  probably knew someone that thought  Aaron Hernandez was innocent as well.  Some fans have a innate capacity to rationalize despicable behavior when it applies to their team.   Even though facts are presented.   They are able to form a reason within their own head why things are different with their team guy.  Folks trying to sway them have about as much luck as you would trying to get a brick wall to skip down the road with you.