Ray Rice

[Ogaju]

Is there a double standard for athletes? How many other professions does a guy who beats his wife lose his job just because he beat his wife?

[D.o.s.]

Is there a double standard for athletes? How many other professions does a guy who beats his wife lose his job just because he beat his wife?

How many other jobs involve being a public figure and under constant scrutiny?

Also 'just because he beat his wife'? Really?

[Donoghus]

Is there a double standard for athletes? How many other professions does a guy who beats his wife lose his job just because he beat his wife?

They're also public figures.  You think Johnny the barista from Starbucks is getting the same exposure for hitting his wife?

Now, Johnny could also very well lose his job depending on terms of his employment, an arrest, whatever, but let's not kid ourselves that the average person and an NFL player are the same.

[Moranis]

To be fair to the Ravens, there are numerous reports out there that Rice told his teammates that Janay was attacking him and he defended himself.  Couple that with Janay's statements about apologizing for her role, the really minimal punishment by the State of New Jersey, and the NFL's response, I don't think the Ravens were being unreasonable or mishandling things.  I mean are they supposed to do a third investigation after the government and NFL had already done one and handed out punishment.

The owner cut Rice after seeing the footage, at least according to Ray Lewis. Which means that the owner of the Ravens didn't see the footage until yesterday, which means that, in the most positive light, the ownership decided that they didn't need to/didn't want to investigate what happened inside the elevator, and took Rice at his word.

My suspicion, then, is that they decided Rice was too important to their team and their brand to cut before it was absolutely necessary, and, like the league, decided to perform their best ostrich impressions insofar as the situation was concerned. Therefore: Eff the Ravens.

But that is my point, did you want the Ravens to do an investigation after the police (and prosecutor) and after the NFL had already done investigations.  I mean clearly the police and prosecutor had seen the tape and they let Rice go to diversion.  The NFL suspended him 2 games.  Janay is out in public apologizing for her role.  Rice is telling people he was defending himself.  I mean what else did you want the Ravens to do.  Why would a third investigation be necessary?  Why shouldn't the Ravens believe Rice when his fiance is basically supporting his position and the prosecutor's let him go to diversion?

It seems silly to fault the Ravens on that one. 

I'm not saying that their actions don't make sense -- I'm saying that their reasons for doing so are ethically lacking. It's not rocket surgery.

ethically lacking?  I just don't get that statement though.  Seems very strange. 

[fairweatherfan]

Is there a double standard for athletes? How many other professions does a guy who beats his wife lose his job just because he beat his wife?

Same standard.  Whatever your job, if your actions outside of the workplace become a detriment to the employer, you're gone.  Since "wife-beater" is not and will never be a protected class, and the employment contract didn't forbid being fired for it, the employer has every right to fire him for being one.  Whether they would is going to vary from employer to employer, of course.

...although, Ray Rice didn't actually lose his job for beating his fiancee.  The Ravens were happy to keep him on the roster after that.  He lost his job for bringing a ton of negative attention and criticism to an organization that exists due to the goodwill of its customers.  Partly due to Rice's actions, and partly due to how those actions were initially treated, but that's what's really being punished now.

[Moranis]

Is there a double standard for athletes? How many other professions does a guy who beats his wife lose his job just because he beat his wife?

They're also public figures.  You think Johnny the barista from Starbucks is getting the same exposure for hitting his wife?

Now, Johnny could also very well lose his job depending on terms of his employment, an arrest, whatever, but let's not kid ourselves that the average person and an NFL player are the same.

Massachusetts State Rep. Carlos Henriguez was arrested in July 2012.  He remained as a State Rep. until his conviction in January 2014 (the conviction came with it 2.5 years in jail). 

Here is a federal judge a few weeks ago getting arrested for domestic violence.  He still has his job.  http://www.ajc.com/news/news/domestic-violence-arrest-unlikely-to-remove-federa/ngz4t/

And lest we not forget the Celtics own Jared Sullinger, who had the good fortune of not being caught on tape, but seemingly did at least as much if not more than Ray Rice.

[D.o.s.]

To be fair to the Ravens, there are numerous reports out there that Rice told his teammates that Janay was attacking him and he defended himself.  Couple that with Janay's statements about apologizing for her role, the really minimal punishment by the State of New Jersey, and the NFL's response, I don't think the Ravens were being unreasonable or mishandling things.  I mean are they supposed to do a third investigation after the government and NFL had already done one and handed out punishment.

The owner cut Rice after seeing the footage, at least according to Ray Lewis. Which means that the owner of the Ravens didn't see the footage until yesterday, which means that, in the most positive light, the ownership decided that they didn't need to/didn't want to investigate what happened inside the elevator, and took Rice at his word.

My suspicion, then, is that they decided Rice was too important to their team and their brand to cut before it was absolutely necessary, and, like the league, decided to perform their best ostrich impressions insofar as the situation was concerned. Therefore: Eff the Ravens.

But that is my point, did you want the Ravens to do an investigation after the police (and prosecutor) and after the NFL had already done investigations.  I mean clearly the police and prosecutor had seen the tape and they let Rice go to diversion.  The NFL suspended him 2 games.  Janay is out in public apologizing for her role.  Rice is telling people he was defending himself.  I mean what else did you want the Ravens to do.  Why would a third investigation be necessary?  Why shouldn't the Ravens believe Rice when his fiance is basically supporting his position and the prosecutor's let him go to diversion?

It seems silly to fault the Ravens on that one. 

I'm not saying that their actions don't make sense -- I'm saying that their reasons for doing so are ethically lacking. It's not rocket surgery.

ethically lacking?  I just don't get that statement though.  Seems very strange.

Then I suggest you sit down with some different books on philosophy and the human condition.

[fairweatherfan]

Is there a double standard for athletes? How many other professions does a guy who beats his wife lose his job just because he beat his wife?

They're also public figures.  You think Johnny the barista from Starbucks is getting the same exposure for hitting his wife?

Now, Johnny could also very well lose his job depending on terms of his employment, an arrest, whatever, but let's not kid ourselves that the average person and an NFL player are the same.

Massachusetts State Rep. Carlos Henriguez was arrested in July 2012.  He remained as a State Rep. until his conviction in January 2014 (the conviction came with it 2.5 years in jail). 

Here is a federal judge a few weeks ago getting arrested for domestic violence.  He still has his job.  http://www.ajc.com/news/news/domestic-violence-arrest-unlikely-to-remove-federa/ngz4t/

Public institutions have very different procedures for removing employees from their positions than private employers.  Doubly so when the positions are elected or appointed.

And lest we not forget the Celtics own Jared Sullinger, who had the good fortune of not being caught on tape, but seemingly did at least as much if not more than Ray Rice.

Care to walk us through this one? 

[Donoghus]

Is there a double standard for athletes? How many other professions does a guy who beats his wife lose his job just because he beat his wife?

They're also public figures.  You think Johnny the barista from Starbucks is getting the same exposure for hitting his wife?

Now, Johnny could also very well lose his job depending on terms of his employment, an arrest, whatever, but let's not kid ourselves that the average person and an NFL player are the same.

Massachusetts State Rep. Carlos Henriguez was arrested in July 2012.  He remained as a State Rep. until his conviction in January 2014 (the conviction came with it 2.5 years in jail). 

Here is a federal judge a few weeks ago getting arrested for domestic violence.  He still has his job.  http://www.ajc.com/news/news/domestic-violence-arrest-unlikely-to-remove-federa/ngz4t/

And lest we not forget the Celtics own Jared Sullinger, who had the good fortune of not being caught on tape, but seemingly did at least as much if not more than Ray Rice.

Sure....and there's plenty of examples of people who did get canned.   A lot of it is contingent on public outrage over the incident.  If it turns into a media circus, yeah, there's a good chance the organization or whoever will cave to pressure and terminate the person but not always the case.  Now if TMZ shows a video of them going Mayweather on a woman, they're screwed. 

Unless, you've been living under a rock, people know about the Ray Rice case.  Video of the guy giving a haymaker to his now wife kinda did him in, don't you think?

Being public figure doesn't automatically mean that you're gonna lose your job but you're going to be under a helluva lot more scrutiny and subject to public outrage than the guy working at the corner Starbucks who slugs his wife.  Let's not kid ourselves there.  Public figures are not treated the same as Joe Schmoe.   Which was my point in the first place.

[Ogaju]

Is there a double standard for athletes? How many other professions does a guy who beats his wife lose his job just because he beat his wife?

How many other jobs involve being a public figure and under constant scrutiny?

Also 'just because he beat his wife'? Really?

the 'just' was not meant to minimize the action, I apologize for the poor choice of words. Instead of just' I should have used 'only' because what I meant is 'without a criminal conviction' so that we can separate the cases where an employer terminates an employee for a criminal conviction.

So I ask again, how many professionals lose their jobs because they are involved in a domestic violence situation -- beat wives  -- without criminal conviction.

[Ogaju]

Is there a double standard for athletes? How many other professions does a guy who beats his wife lose his job just because he beat his wife?

Same standard.  Whatever your job, if your actions outside of the workplace become a detriment to the employer, you're gone.  Since "wife-beater" is not and will never be a protected class, and the employment contract didn't forbid being fired for it, the employer has every right to fire him for being one.  Whether they would is going to vary from employer to employer, of course.

...although, Ray Rice didn't actually lose his job for beating his fiancee.  The Ravens were happy to keep him on the roster after that.  He lost his job for bringing a ton of negative attention and criticism to an organization that exists due to the goodwill of its customers.  Partly due to Rice's actions, and partly due to how those actions were initially treated, but that's what's really being punished now.

Good answer, I agree with your answer.

[D.o.s.]

Yeah FWF more or less nailed it.

[D.o.s.]

What were we saying about the pats again?

"I think everyone that witnessed that video yesterday has to be outraged and really disgusted to see someone associated with us doing something like that us," Kraft said. "Anyone who is a real man doesn't hit a woman."

http://deadspin.com/the-trouble-with-floyd-mayweather-1605217498/1632578678/+kylenw

[Finkelskyhook]

I used to respect Goodell.  But the "indefinite suspension" is as chickenpoop as anything the equally sleazy Selig or Stern ever did during their most righteously indignant sleaziest times.

For Goodell to claim he didn't see the tape is sociopathic at best.  I have no problem with how the Ravens handled it except that it shows their hypocracy as well....There embracing of Ray Lewis....

It also gave ESPN the opportunity to drag their token illiterate racist commentator on all scandals social...jamele hill to bring her incoherent nothingness to the table.

Does this mean you respected Goodell when he laid down the two game suspension?

While being astonished at the 2-game suspension based on the severity for much less  Goodell has handled everything else....  I appreciated his acknowledgement that he botched it and the policy moving forward.  I lost all respect for him during this cover-your-jackass gesture that reeks of double-jeapordy.  To say he did this because he didn't see the film....He saw it.

This is the same league who have embraced Leonard Little, Josh Brent, Donte' Stallworth, and especially Ray Lewis...Who's actions have resulted in people's deaths.....And the league's complete over-the-top effort to rehabilitate Michael Vick's brand......Are condemning Ray Rice to virtual...Well not virtual but literal unemployability...To cover their own jackasses.  Help the guy as you did the others.  Then if a team wants him...Give him a chance.
   
Yesterday's actions makes Goodell no less sleazy and hypocritical than Selig, Stern, or Silver in that respect.

[slamtheking]

And lest we not forget the Celtics own Jared Sullinger, who had the good fortune of not being caught on tape, but seemingly did at least as much if not more than Ray Rice.

Care to walk us through this one? 

I'm with you on that.  I was under the impression Sully's issue was restraining his girlfriend, not popping her like Rice did.  If I missed some info somewhere, I apologize, but based on my understanding Sully's situation was not as brutal as Rice's.