Hawks owner to sell team because of "racist" email

[Eja117]

Hey if Michael Jordan is caught on tape saying horridly racist things about white people what do you suppose will happen?

Hypothetically, I'd say it depends on whether or not he leaks them himself and then sells the team, or if this is the icing on the cake of 30 years of documented incidents of racist behavior that comes to a head during the league's most popular segment, the playoffs.

It's a cute bit of false equivalence, though.

But is it as cute as your moral relativism?

[Endless Paradise]

Hey if Michael Jordan is caught on tape saying horridly racist things about white people what do you suppose will happen?

Are you actually genuinely wondering or is this merely stupid "this is only a problem because a white person said it and no one would bat an eye if a minority said it" rhetoric that I've already seen others spout elsewhere?  As though that's somehow a defense against what Ferry did.

While I do believe double standards exist I haven't heard that rhetoric.  I do wonder what would happen.  I don't see players threatening to boycott MJ or coaches to walk out on him, but that's just my guess.

I think we should ignore silly hypotheticals about something that hasn't happened and focus on the actual events here since it's a cheap way of deflecting attention away from what Ferry did.  Who cares about perceived double standards and a suppositional scenario of a black owner saying something racist about whites?  Ferry said something racist and we know for a fact that happened -- let's talk about that and not try to poo-poo this away with, "psh, no one would care if the races were flipped."

[D.o.s.]

Hey if Michael Jordan is caught on tape saying horridly racist things about white people what do you suppose will happen?

Hypothetically, I'd say it depends on whether or not he leaks them himself and then sells the team, or if this is the icing on the cake of 30 years of documented incidents of racist behavior that comes to a head during the league's most popular segment, the playoffs.

It's a cute bit of false equivalence, though.

But is it as cute as your moral relativism?

Considering you posted that  at almost the same time you posted the thing about Michael Sam's boyfriend, I really have no inclination to discuss your fairly obvious implication/persecution complex.

[Eja117]

Hey if Michael Jordan is caught on tape saying horridly racist things about white people what do you suppose will happen?

Are you actually genuinely wondering or is this merely stupid "this is only a problem because a white person said it and no one would bat an eye if a minority said it" rhetoric that I've already seen others spout elsewhere?  As though that's somehow a defense against what Ferry did.

While I do believe double standards exist I haven't heard that rhetoric.  I do wonder what would happen.  I don't see players threatening to boycott MJ or coaches to walk out on him, but that's just my guess.

I think we should ignore silly hypotheticals about something that hasn't happened and focus on the actual events here since it's a cheap way of deflecting attention away from what Ferry did.  Who cares about perceived double standards and a suppositional scenario of a black owner saying something racist about whites?  Ferry said something racist and we know for a fact that happened -- let's talk about that and not try to poo-poo this away with, "psh, no one would care if the races were flipped."

Oh I definitely care about it. The league may very well have a problem here and it might get bigger before it gets smaller. I don't think anybody should poo-poo away anything, but at this point it becomes worth considering some worst case scenarios. I think it could possibly spill over into other sports and possible witch hunts commence.

[D.o.s.]

And the problem with that is what, exactly?

[Eja117]

Hey if Michael Jordan is caught on tape saying horridly racist things about white people what do you suppose will happen?

Hypothetically, I'd say it depends on whether or not he leaks them himself and then sells the team, or if this is the icing on the cake of 30 years of documented incidents of racist behavior that comes to a head during the league's most popular segment, the playoffs.

It's a cute bit of false equivalence, though.

But is it as cute as your moral relativism?

Considering you posted that  at almost the same time you posted the thing about Michael Sam's boyfriend, I really have no inclination to discuss your fairly obvious implication/persecution complex.

Right. Because the situations getting bigger or stranger in both leagues is probably not worth considering or discussing Abby.

[D.o.s.]

Because that's totally what you're talking about when you start questioning posters for their moral relativism.

[Eja117]

Because that's totally what you're talking about when you start questioning posters for their moral relativism.

One ding deserves another, no? The kettle can still call the pot black, right? Must've hit pretty close to the mark to get ya all riled up like that.

[Endless Paradise]

Hey if Michael Jordan is caught on tape saying horridly racist things about white people what do you suppose will happen?

Are you actually genuinely wondering or is this merely stupid "this is only a problem because a white person said it and no one would bat an eye if a minority said it" rhetoric that I've already seen others spout elsewhere?  As though that's somehow a defense against what Ferry did.

While I do believe double standards exist I haven't heard that rhetoric.  I do wonder what would happen.  I don't see players threatening to boycott MJ or coaches to walk out on him, but that's just my guess.

I think we should ignore silly hypotheticals about something that hasn't happened and focus on the actual events here since it's a cheap way of deflecting attention away from what Ferry did.  Who cares about perceived double standards and a suppositional scenario of a black owner saying something racist about whites?  Ferry said something racist and we know for a fact that happened -- let's talk about that and not try to poo-poo this away with, "psh, no one would care if the races were flipped."

Oh I definitely care about it. The league may very well have a problem here and it might get bigger before it gets smaller. I don't think anybody should poo-poo away anything, but at this point it becomes worth considering some worst case scenarios. I think it could possibly spill over into other sports and possible witch hunts commence.

If you're basically suggesting that you don't think Ferry should be penalized for what he did or that this shouldn't even be an issue, I'm not going to have that discussion.

Because otherwise, I don't see the issue here.  Levenson voluntarily stepped down, likely because he wanted to sell his ownership share, anyway, but had a previous attempt blocked by the NBA (so he conveniently admitted to sending this email as it gave him an out).  Ferry is being rightfully criticized for his stupid remarks.  What slippery slope are we heading down here?  One discouraging racists and bigots from active participation in the NBA? Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

[D.o.s.]

Because that's totally what you're talking about when you start questioning posters for their moral relativism.

One ding deserves another, no? The kettle can still call the pot black, right?

For sure, but like EP just pointed out, the 'bigger and stranger' scenario that this could be leading towards isn't what most people would consider a bad thing.

What, exactly, do you think would happen if Jordan was found to be in a Sterling-type situation? Why is it pertinent to the discussion? What sort of assertion about the NBA and or the current sports-watching culture are you trying to shroud in this hypothetical example?

[Eja117]

Hey if Michael Jordan is caught on tape saying horridly racist things about white people what do you suppose will happen?

Are you actually genuinely wondering or is this merely stupid "this is only a problem because a white person said it and no one would bat an eye if a minority said it" rhetoric that I've already seen others spout elsewhere?  As though that's somehow a defense against what Ferry did.

While I do believe double standards exist I haven't heard that rhetoric.  I do wonder what would happen.  I don't see players threatening to boycott MJ or coaches to walk out on him, but that's just my guess.

I think we should ignore silly hypotheticals about something that hasn't happened and focus on the actual events here since it's a cheap way of deflecting attention away from what Ferry did.  Who cares about perceived double standards and a suppositional scenario of a black owner saying something racist about whites?  Ferry said something racist and we know for a fact that happened -- let's talk about that and not try to poo-poo this away with, "psh, no one would care if the races were flipped."

Oh I definitely care about it. The league may very well have a problem here and it might get bigger before it gets smaller. I don't think anybody should poo-poo away anything, but at this point it becomes worth considering some worst case scenarios. I think it could possibly spill over into other sports and possible witch hunts commence.

If you're basically suggesting that you don't think Ferry should be penalized for what he did or that this shouldn't even be an issue, I'm not going to have that discussion.

Because otherwise, I don't see the issue here.  Levenson voluntarily stepped down, likely because he wanted to sell his ownership share, anyway, but had a previous attempt blocked by the NBA (so he conveniently admitted to sending this email as it gave him an out).  Ferry is being rightfully criticized for his stupid remarks.  What slippery slope are we heading down here?  One discouraging racists and bigots from active participation in the NBA? Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

While I admit that I think there's a tad bit of danger or witch hunts taking some things out of context resulting in good people being punished for things they didn't really do, and while I also think it's unlikely that everyone would get similar punishments for similar problems, I think if anything I am suggesting that rather than Ferry not getting punished I am suggesting that future people be punished for similar issues if it happens, no matter who they are. Maybe that's just false equivalence, but so be it.

[Endless Paradise]

While I admit that I think there's a tad bit of danger or witch hunts taking some things out of context resulting in good people being punished for things they didn't really do

That's entirely fair, but that's not what happened here.  The initial story was that Ferry was internally disciplined for an inappropriate remark.  There were eyebrows raised as this came out on the heels of Levenson's email getting out.  Then we found out that he made a comment about Deng not being perfect and "having a little African in him."  The context seemed questionable at best and pretty worrisome at worst -- it quite clearly had an implication of his ethnicity somehow being a negative.  Of course, some argued that since he followed with "and I don't say that in a bad way" - which is, quite literally, the equivalent of "NO OFFENSE, BUT (insert something offensive)" and "I'M NOT RACIST/SEXIST/ETC., BUT (insert something racist/sexist/etc.)" non-disclaimers - that he wasn't necessarily being offensive.  Still, outrage was somewhat restrained as people awaited more details.  Then the full email came out and it was clear: Ferry evoked stereotypes and racism.  His words or not, they were inherently offensive.  THAT'S when people started flipping out and calling for his firing or resignation.

Everything that's happening to Ferry was entirely deserved; he's not being unfairly attacked and scrutinized.  He said something stupid, now he has to deal with the consequences.

and while I also think it's unlikely that everyone would get similar punishments for similar problems, I think if anything I am suggesting that rather than Ferry not getting punished I am suggesting that future people be punished for similar issues if it happens, no matter who they are. Maybe that's just false equivalence, but so be it.

Let's actually cross that bridge if and when we get to it.  Because as it is now, your take is entirely unfounded and, as I said, just comes across as a cheap deflection from the actual situation here.  Honestly, it just seems like silly "this is only a problem because Ferry is white" nonsense that many racists and bigots use to argue against whites being taken to task for discriminatory behavior and comments.

(I'm obviously not calling you a racist or bigot, for the record).

[Eja117]

While I admit that I think there's a tad bit of danger or witch hunts taking some things out of context resulting in good people being punished for things they didn't really do

That's entirely fair, but that's not what happened here.  The initial story was that Ferry was internally disciplined for an inappropriate remark.  There were eyebrows raised as this came out on the heels of Levenson's email getting out.  Then we found out that he made a comment about Deng not being perfect and "having a little African in him."  The context seemed questionable at best and pretty worrisome at worst -- it quite clearly had an implication of his ethnicity somehow being a negative.  Of course, some argued that since he followed with "and I don't say that in a bad way" - which is, quite literally, the equivalent of "NO OFFENSE, BUT (insert something offensive)" and "I'M NOT RACIST/SEXIST/ETC., BUT (insert something racist/sexist/etc.)" non-disclaimers - that he wasn't necessarily being offensive.  Still, outrage was somewhat restrained as people awaited more details.  Then the full email came out and it was clear: Ferry evoked stereotypes and racism.  His words or not, they were inherently offensive.  THAT'S when people started flipping out and calling for his firing or resignation.

Everything that's happening to Ferry was entirely deserved; he's not being unfairly attacked and scrutinized.  He said something stupid, now he has to deal with the consequences.

and while I also think it's unlikely that everyone would get similar punishments for similar problems, I think if anything I am suggesting that rather than Ferry not getting punished I am suggesting that future people be punished for similar issues if it happens, no matter who they are. Maybe that's just false equivalence, but so be it.

Let's actually cross that bridge if and when we get to it.  Because as it is now, your take is entirely unfounded and, as I said, just comes across as a cheap deflection from the actual situation here.  Honestly, it just seems like silly "this is only a problem because Ferry is white" nonsense that many racists and bigots use to argue against whites being taken to task for discriminatory behavior and comments.

(I'm obviously not calling you a racist or bigot, for the record).

I agree with a ton of what you said there, but if you want to read into my comments and see what you want to see and/or put words in my mouth that would of course be your issue and not mine.

[D.o.s.]

What, exactly, do you think would happen if Jordan was found to be in a Sterling-type situation? Why is it pertinent to the discussion?

[Endless Paradise]

Then make your point clear and stop being arcane.  Because if you're going to just hint at stuff and coyly imply things, I'm going to make assumptions.