Jersey retirement

[relja]

Is there a case in this league where a player has his jersey retired by two different franchises? I can only think of MJ, considering he has one in Chi-town and one in Miami, but he never played for the Heat.

Can KG become the first one? Minny will retire 21 the moment he hangs his sneakers. He did great things for Beantown and changed the entire culture and in my opinion he deserves to see his #5 hang in the rafters, even though this organization has been a little bit too liberal with retiring numbers. Your thoughts?

[D.o.s.]

I absolutely think KG gets 5 and 21 hung up.

[Moranis]

There is a post on KG in Celtics history, but I firmly believe he should not have his number retired in Boston.  He just didn't play enough years in my mind.  I expect him to have it retired, I just wouldn't do it personally.

Here is a list team by team from 2011

http://www.nba.com/history/team-retired-jerseys/index.html

Wilt is retired by the Sixers, Warriors, and Lakers
Kareem is retired by the Bucks and Lakers
Jordan is retired by the Bulls and Heat
Lanier is retired by the Pistons and Bucks
Dr. J is retired by the Nets and Sixers
Barkley is retired by the Sixers and Suns
Drexler is retired by the Rockets and Blazers
Robertson is retired by the Bucks and Kings
Maravich is retired by the Jazz and Pelicans

I might have missed a player or two, but as you can see it is actually a fairly extensive list.

[manl_lui]

There is a post on KG in Celtics history, but I firmly believe he should not have his number retired in Boston.  He just didn't play enough years in my mind.  I expect him to have it retired, I just wouldn't do it personally.

Here is a list team by team from 2011

http://www.nba.com/history/team-retired-jerseys/index.html

Wilt is retired by the Sixers, Warriors, and Lakers
Kareem is retired by the Bucks and Lakers
Jordan is retired by the Bulls and Heat
Lanier is retired by the Pistons and Bucks
Dr. J is retired by the Nets and Sixers
Barkley is retired by the Sixers and Suns
Drexler is retired by the Rockets and Blazers
Robertson is retired by the Bucks and Kings
Maravich is retired by the Jazz and Pelicans

I might have missed a player or two, but as you can see it is actually a fairly extensive list.

that's a good point but in my honest opinion, KG should absolutely have his jersey retired by both the Minny and Boston. Minny is a no brainer, but to me, he means something more in Boston.

He bought the winning culture back to the Cs, he bought his defense intensity, changed absolutely everything there is to the Celtics. He was the ultimate savior for our franchise in 07-08. His heart and his commitment for the Celtics alone should absolutely have his #5 retired in Boston.

[D.o.s.]

Worth noting on that list: Robertson only played for four seasons in Milwaukee, Lanier only played four-and-a-half seasons for the Bucks, Drexler only played three-and-a-half seasons for the Rockets,  and Doctor J. only played three (ABA) seasons for the Nets.

I'd say KG probably isn't on the level of an Oscar Robertson or a Doctor J., but I don't think he should be disqualified simply because of his tenure.

[BitterJim]

...this organization has been a little bit too liberal with retiring numbers...

Can we just think about this for a second?

http://www.nba.com/celtics/history/RetiredNumbers.html

Who on that list doesn't deserve to have their number retired? (I'll take the argument that Red should have his number of wins retired instead of 2)

We have so many retired numbers because we have an extensive and storied history, not because we just give the numbers away. 

As for KG, I'm still undecided, but lean toward no because he wouldn't really fit in with the other names on the list

Side note: We have 31 players in the hall of fame, but only 22 retired numbers.  We're not even close to giving them away

[bdm860]

There is a post on KG in Celtics history, but I firmly believe he should not have his number retired in Boston.  He just didn't play enough years in my mind.  I expect him to have it retired, I just wouldn't do it personally.

I definitely understand this line of thinking, but out of curiosity, is there a certain threshold you have for number of years/championships?

If the C's won 2 titles with Garnett, but he still only played 6 years, would you retire it then?

If he played out '14 and '15 with the C's, would that be enough?


The C's need some kind of Monument Park like the Yankees have. The greats like Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, etc.  get their number retired, along with stars who defined the Yankees for a generation, whether they won a ring (Mariano Rivera,  Jeter in a year) or not (Mattingly).  Then you have the next tier down of guys, All-Stars who were key contributors, but not on the same level or with the same tenure as the other guys, there you have guys like Paul O'Neill (9 years, 4x All-Star, 4x champion) and Tino Martinez (7 years, 1x All-Star, 4x champion).  Also you have a tier even higher than the number being retired, with actual monuments (of which the Yankees only have 5).

A set up like that would be perfect for the Celtics.  Pierce gets his number retired, while Garnett and Ray Allen get a plaque.  If they had this in the past, then maybe Bird, McHale, Parrish get their number retired, while DJ and Max get plaques.  I can also see monuments to Walter Brown, Red, Cousy, Russell, Tommy, Havlicek, and Bird (though I believe all the Yankee monuments are posthumous so maybe just Walter Brown and Red for now).

I think a setup similar to the Yankees would be perfect for the C's.

[Chris22]

Think of where Rondo and Doc Rivers would be without KG.

[Moranis]

Worth noting on that list: Robertson only played for four seasons in Milwaukee, Lanier only played four-and-a-half seasons for the Bucks, Drexler only played three-and-a-half seasons for the Rockets,  and Doctor J. only played three (ABA) seasons for the Nets.

I'd say KG probably isn't on the level of an Oscar Robertson or a Doctor J., but I don't think he should be disqualified simply because of his tenure.

But you are also talking about teams that don't have much history.  Frankly, looking at the list again, I firmly maintain my position that the Celtics have way too many jerseys retired.  4/5 guys could easily be removed and no one would be up in arms (I know it isn't going to happen, just saying it should).  I mean just look at the Lakers retired jerseys and compare it to Boston, and you see more or less what Boston's should look like (I expect LA to put Shaq up there and obviously Kobe will get there as well, while I'd only add Pierce but expect Garnett to also get added).

[erisred]

Personally, I'd support unretiring some numbers before any more are retired.  Yeah, yeah, I know...tradition and all that, but if the C's keep retiring numbers pretty soon everybody is going to have numbers in the 50's and 50's!

What I think the Celtics should do is retire a number for 20 years and hang the jersey with the number in the rafters. After 20 years make the number available again, but leave it in the rafters at the same time. If a future #6 is good enough to get his number retired, his jersey would join Bill's jersey in the rafters...and all would still be right with the world.

[Eric M VAN]

...this organization has been a little bit too liberal with retiring numbers...

Can we just think about this for a second?

http://www.nba.com/celtics/history/RetiredNumbers.html

Who on that list doesn't deserve to have their number retired? (I'll take the argument that Red should have his number of wins retired instead of 2)

We have so many retired numbers because we have an extensive and storied history, not because we just give the numbers away. 

As for KG, I'm still undecided, but lean toward no because he wouldn't really fit in with the other names on the list

Side note: We have 31 players in the hall of fame, but only 22 retired numbers.  We're not even close to giving them away

There are a few they could give back I think

Luscutoff
Nelson
Max
Satch
Jo-Jo


I'd say if the player is in the HOF as a player or Celtics coach  they get hung in the rafters. Reggie Lewis is a special case.

[mgent]

Worth noting on that list: Robertson only played for four seasons in Milwaukee, Lanier only played four-and-a-half seasons for the Bucks, Drexler only played three-and-a-half seasons for the Rockets,  and Doctor J. only played three (ABA) seasons for the Nets.

I'd say KG probably isn't on the level of an Oscar Robertson or a Doctor J., but I don't think he should be disqualified simply because of his tenure.

But you are also talking about teams that don't have much history.  Frankly, looking at the list again, I firmly maintain my position that the Celtics have way too many jerseys retired.  4/5 guys could easily be removed and no one would be up in arms (I know it isn't going to happen, just saying it should).  I mean just look at the Lakers retired jerseys and compare it to Boston, and you see more or less what Boston's should look like (I expect LA to put Shaq up there and obviously Kobe will get there as well, while I'd only add Pierce but expect Garnett to also get added).

How do you know no one would be up in arms?  Which person do we have retired that is undeserving?

The Lakers simply didn't have as many good players as we did (although their best players are pretty even with our best).

Most NBA teams didn't play in the 50s, where the league was much more top-heavy and all-NBA players were much easier to come by due to the low number of teams.  Even Loscy was a top 3 pick in the draft.

[Eric M VAN]

Worth noting on that list: Robertson only played for four seasons in Milwaukee, Lanier only played four-and-a-half seasons for the Bucks, Drexler only played three-and-a-half seasons for the Rockets,  and Doctor J. only played three (ABA) seasons for the Nets.

I'd say KG probably isn't on the level of an Oscar Robertson or a Doctor J., but I don't think he should be disqualified simply because of his tenure.

But you are also talking about teams that don't have much history.  Frankly, looking at the list again, I firmly maintain my position that the Celtics have way too many jerseys retired.  4/5 guys could easily be removed and no one would be up in arms (I know it isn't going to happen, just saying it should).  I mean just look at the Lakers retired jerseys and compare it to Boston, and you see more or less what Boston's should look like (I expect LA to put Shaq up there and obviously Kobe will get there as well, while I'd only add Pierce but expect Garnett to also get added).

How do you know no one would be up in arms?  Which person do we have retired that is undeserving?

The Lakers simply didn't have as many good players as we did (although their best players are pretty even with our best).

Most NBA teams didn't play in the 50s, where the league was much more top-heavy and all-NBA players were much easier to come by due to the low number of teams.  Even Loscy was a top 3 pick in the draft.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I just listed a few that could come off. Loscy was drafted in the top 3 when there were 8 teams in the league and there were still territorial draft picks picked before the draft.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1955_NBA_draft

That draft group weren't exactly world beaters

It's not really relevant to his skill or performance.

[mgent]

...this organization has been a little bit too liberal with retiring numbers...

Can we just think about this for a second?

http://www.nba.com/celtics/history/RetiredNumbers.html

Who on that list doesn't deserve to have their number retired? (I'll take the argument that Red should have his number of wins retired instead of 2)

We have so many retired numbers because we have an extensive and storied history, not because we just give the numbers away. 

As for KG, I'm still undecided, but lean toward no because he wouldn't really fit in with the other names on the list

Side note: We have 31 players in the hall of fame, but only 22 retired numbers.  We're not even close to giving them away

There are a few they could give back I think

Luscutoff
Nelson
Max
Satch
Jo-Jo


I'd say if the player is in the HOF as a player or Celtics coach  they get hung in the rafters. Reggie Lewis is a special case.

Nelson and Maxwell were both league leaders in efficiency.  Loscy was a 6-time champion and Satch was an 8-time, how many players have contributed to that many banners and didn't get their number retired?  As for JoJo, he was an all-star 7 out of his 9 seasons as a Celtic and a Finals MVP.  He's obviously deserving.

[Eric M VAN]

...this organization has been a little bit too liberal with retiring numbers...

Can we just think about this for a second?

http://www.nba.com/celtics/history/RetiredNumbers.html

Who on that list doesn't deserve to have their number retired? (I'll take the argument that Red should have his number of wins retired instead of 2)

We have so many retired numbers because we have an extensive and storied history, not because we just give the numbers away. 

As for KG, I'm still undecided, but lean toward no because he wouldn't really fit in with the other names on the list

Side note: We have 31 players in the hall of fame, but only 22 retired numbers.  We're not even close to giving them away

There are a few they could give back I think

Luscutoff
Nelson
Max
Satch
Jo-Jo


I'd say if the player is in the HOF as a player or Celtics coach  they get hung in the rafters. Reggie Lewis is a special case.

Nelson and Maxwell were both league leaders in efficiency.  Loscy was a 6-time champion and Satch was an 8-time, how many players have contributed to that many banners and didn't get their number retired?  As for JoJo, he was an all-star 7 out of his 9 seasons as a Celtic and a Finals MVP.  He's obviously deserving.

I suppose so. It doesn't kill me their numbers are retired but it could be argued that Loscy, Satch, Max and Nelson having their numbers retired cheapens retiring Birds or Russels or players that far out rank the others somewhat relatively meager accomplishments. You may as well retire Larry Siegfried;s number