Author Topic: NBA Cap stifles competition  (Read 10311 times)

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Re: NBA Cap stifles competition
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2014, 10:07:56 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I would love the NFL model. 


Easy enough to get rid of a player not playing up to his contract.



It would also encourage teams to take bigger chances.  Take the chance and overpay a guy.  If it works, great.  If it doesn't, get rid of them in the future.




The amount of money payed to the players do not change.  They still have a deal in place promising a % of the revenue to the players.  It doesn't hurt the true talent in the NBA.  It kills the guy that gets to big of a contract and does nothing but eat up salary cap.
It also means players hold out and would command much more individually.  I mean if you aren't going to guarantee contracts then you can't really put maximums on them.  A guy like James would command 50 million a year on the open market (and he would be worth it).  That is the problem with that model.
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Re: NBA Cap stifles competition
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2014, 10:18:35 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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how about longer rookie contracts with periods during the contract where the player is eligible for arbitration where someone can determine what the players market value is and the team is required to pay.  If the team is unwilling to pay the players market value determined by the arbitrator then the player is eligible to become a unrestricted free agent.

I also think the NBA needs to adopt the NFLs franchise tag rules.  Multiple first round picks coming back to the team that the franchise player loses.....obviously if the first suggestion is used then the franchise tag rule doesnt apply.

It looks you are the kind of person who likes when other people tell you where you can work what you can do.

If I'm a talented athlete with skills to play in the nfl, nba or mlb then there is no way I choose the NFL. Worst salary, anytime they can get cut you, serious sometimes life threatening injuries. No thanks. The NFL exploites the players the most while making the biggest profit. I think players will fight against the franchise tag in the next bargaining agreement.

I agree with this.
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Re: NBA Cap stifles competition
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2014, 10:23:01 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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Quote
   It looks you are the kind of person who likes when other people tell you where you can work what you can do.

 


lol..that tickled me

Re: NBA Cap stifles competition
« Reply #48 on: August 18, 2014, 02:15:44 AM »

Offline staticcc

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It's supposed to be that way. I disagree with the no cap thing because that would lead to a boring league. That would stifle competition even MORE! I also disagree with the "there should be parity" BS spewing from people. It will not work. There will never be parity/equality, that's a socialist view. That system will not work just like communism does not work. Social democracy is the way. Have a cap to encourage competition making sure that teams have a chance BUT do not push equality and parity.

OK that was an exaggeration. ;D But the point about parity stands. It is a pipe-dream. Unless the NBA Playoffs becomes a single elimination tournament, the best teams will always win at the end. March Madness is there for a reason.

If Lebron or some other star is that good that players want to team up with him, that's not his fault. There can't be too much restrictions on who wants to ring chase and who does not. It's their choice so they can do whatever they want.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 03:24:54 AM by staticcc »
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Re: NBA Cap stifles competition
« Reply #49 on: August 18, 2014, 03:04:36 AM »

Offline kraidstar

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I would love the NFL model. 


Easy enough to get rid of a player not playing up to his contract.



It would also encourage teams to take bigger chances.  Take the chance and overpay a guy.  If it works, great.  If it doesn't, get rid of them in the future.




The amount of money payed to the players do not change.  They still have a deal in place promising a % of the revenue to the players.  It doesn't hurt the true talent in the NBA.  It kills the guy that gets to big of a contract and does nothing but eat up salary cap.
It also means players hold out and would command much more individually.  I mean if you aren't going to guarantee contracts then you can't really put maximums on them.  A guy like James would command 50 million a year on the open market (and he would be worth it).  That is the problem with that model.

honestly, james might be worth more than $50M. i could see prokhorov paying $60M for him. small-market teams wouldn't be able to compete at all if there was no cap. imagine one team having a $150M payroll while another is at $50M... the lower-salary teams would be toast. not having a cap works better in baseball because in baseball, teams have total control over a player for a number of years, and they can pay below-market value during this time, that greatly benefits small-market teams. in MLB there are also draft pick compensation rules, so small-market teams do get extra draft picks when they lose their best guys.
and also, in the NBA it's easier to identify top talent that will perform consistently over the course of a contract. and having two extra stars on a team makes all the difference in the world. MLB is much more finicky, those same two $25 M apiece stars might underperform, or suffer elbow injuries, or be outplayed by a surprise rookie, etc.

Re: NBA Cap stifles competition
« Reply #50 on: August 18, 2014, 03:32:04 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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It's supposed to be that way. I disagree with the no cap thing because that would lead to a boring league. That would stifle competition even MORE! I also disagree with the "there should be parity" BS spewing from people. It will not work. There will never be parity/equality, that's a socialist view. That system will not work just like communism does not work. Social democracy is the way. Have a cap to encourage competition making sure that teams have a chance BUT do not push equality and parity.

OK that was an exaggeration. ;D But the point about parity stands. It is a pipe-dream. Unless the NBA Playoffs becomes a single elimination tournament, the best teams will always win at the end. March Madness is there for a reason.

If Lebron or some other star is that good that players want to team up with him, that's not his fault. There can't be too much restrictions on who wants to ring chase and who does not. It's their choice so they can do whatever they want.

What you are not considering is that it is the cap that fosters ring chasing for just the few that do not need the salary because they have either made enough money or have other sources of money. If there was no cap then it will be easier to get two or three super teams and let all the rest be also rans. Soccer is a perfect example, there is no salary cap, therefore you have the almighty teams and the also rans.

Re: NBA Cap stifles competition
« Reply #51 on: August 18, 2014, 04:21:11 AM »

Offline LilRip

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I haven't read the entire thread so apologies if this has already been brought up but I mentioned this in another anti-cap thread. I don't think the cap itself is anti-competition. I think the cap is fine and actually helps small market teams. Rather, it's the players who are willing to accept below market value salaries for their skills that's anti-competition.

As a solution, I think that there should be an appraising body that sets "minimums" as to which a player can sign for. These minimums could be based on season awards, individual stats, etc. For example, league MVP's would have a max contract as their minimum.
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Re: NBA Cap stifles competition
« Reply #52 on: August 18, 2014, 04:40:17 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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There is no way owners give up a salary cap. Nor do the players give up full guaranteed contracts. Still the real problem is lack of league talent. Lack of talent is the biggest reasons guys are overpaid and the competition is terrible. There are roughly 150 solid pros and 30 teams with 15 man rosters. My solution is trim team rosters to 11 (with 2 NBDL exemption players) leagues talent distribution would be much better. Most rookies would do NBDL to save a roster spot. Also throw in an exemption if a guy goes on season ending IR.

Re: NBA Cap stifles competition
« Reply #53 on: August 18, 2014, 07:17:35 AM »

Offline jambr380

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You are way off about everything.
The new salary cap makes it harder to spend because of the increased luxury tax implications. The other thing is: the players are not slaves, go back to the 19th century. You are just a bitter fan who knows the celtics will suck so you want a system that serves your team better (at least you think it would).

???

You know what I mean...
Your idea is not plausible and totally unrealistic.

I didn't get the slave reference since my proposal is actually pushing for players to get what they are worth, or to scrap free agency altogether.

I also don't understand the bitter Celtic fan reference since this proposal applies to all teams without exception.

I wouldn't take it to heart too much. He is still new to CB and hasn't quite learned what is appropriate to say and what isn't.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 07:29:32 AM by jambr380 »

Re: NBA Cap stifles competition
« Reply #54 on: August 18, 2014, 08:17:36 AM »

Offline celticsfan8591

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but the cap gives the marquee teams a decided advantage that other teams cannot overcome. if LA and Utah HAVE only 20 million to spend on a player LA probably always gets that player. What if Utah can pay that player 30 million? Maybe he goes there instead of LA.

You're right that LA would always get a player over utah if the salaries are the same, but getting rid of the cap is only giving big market teams a bigger advantage.  If teams were allowed to spend as much money as they want, why do you think that small market teams would suddenly be able to outspend big market teams? Big market teams have more money, if anything having no cap would allow LA to offer 30 million and eliminate any chance Utah or other small market teams has. 

What I think would address the problem you're mentioning is getting rid of max salaries.  Players are always going to prefer bigger markets, but if you get rid of max salaries at least small market teams have the option of devoting a huge portion of their cap space to signing a star.  It'll definitely cut down on stars teaming up; I don't think LeBron, Wade, and Bosh would have all signed in miami if they were giving up $10 million a year instead of 2.

Re: NBA Cap stifles competition
« Reply #55 on: August 18, 2014, 09:21:54 AM »

Offline D.o.s.

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but the cap gives the marquee teams a decided advantage that other teams cannot overcome. if LA and Utah HAVE only 20 million to spend on a player LA probably always gets that player. What if Utah can pay that player 30 million? Maybe he goes there instead of LA.

You're right that LA would always get a player over utah if the salaries are the same, but getting rid of the cap is only giving big market teams a bigger advantage.  If teams were allowed to spend as much money as they want, why do you think that small market teams would suddenly be able to outspend big market teams? Big market teams have more money, if anything having no cap would allow LA to offer 30 million and eliminate any chance Utah or other small market teams has. 

I also agree with this -- not to mention that market size has little bearing on how much the owner is willing to spend: consider the Trail Blazers, who routinely spent loads of luxury tax money over the last decade (under the old CBA) in order to put a successful team on the floor.
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Re: NBA Cap stifles competition
« Reply #56 on: August 18, 2014, 09:45:38 AM »

Offline LooseCannon

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This entire thread is silly because it is premised on the idea that players signing for less to chase rings is a problem.  Having a choice between a better chance of winning for less money or more money on a worse team is exactly what the salary cap is for.  You have a choice, but not everybody gets the option to have everything they want.
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