NBA Cap stifles competition

[Ogaju]

Malone and Peyton definitely not max but they took less money.

The player can go anywhere they want. It just has to fit the cap, and the way you achieve that is to stick the team with the players FMV and not some artificial number they agree to in order to subvert the salary cap. So Malone still gets to go to the Lakers but the Lakers get hit with the $12 million he commanded on the open market, not the lesser amount he took. That stops the stockpiling of talent on one team because it allows the Lakers less money to stack their bench.

[GetLucky]

For every LeBron or Dwayne Wade there is a Carmelo Anthony or Chris Bosh (circa 2014) whose primary concern is finances. The only reason Bosh to Houston became a possibility is because Miami was asking him to take a significant pay cut whereas Houston could offer the max. Heck, even Pau Gasol was driven by money to a lesser extent. (He left LA who offered 2 yr/$22 mil, but he chose the Bull's 3/$22 over the Spurs' MLE).

The prototypical timeline for a star in the cap era (through observation) is:
1) play out rookie scale
2) Make as much money as possible on the soonest extension
3) Take a pay cut for the good of the team

LeBron followed this (max extension in Cleveland before leaving). The only reason he had a second go-around was because he came into the league so young and had an opt out during the "greater good" period. LeBron is actually earning the max now. Wade followed this timeline, too. Carmelo followed this, except he traded step 3 for a second go at step 2. He recently opened a venture capital firm. Bosh followed this timeline out of order, as he sacrificed and then got his payday. In other words, most players throughout the free agency era follow this timeline. The few that mix it up throw the league for a loop, but they eventually err towards the step that they missed. The repercussions then come down, when Bosh will be payed max at the age of 35 or LeBron at the age of 31 is re-upped for (presumably) the full max.

I honestly think that the only reason we are having this discussion at all is because LeBron James singlehandedly discovered and executed how to best take advantage of the cap. He came, made money (first extension with Cleveland), flexibly sacrificed (Miami, but with opt-outs), won, subsequently increased his (already great) public image, opted out,  made money again while further increasing his image (return to Cleveland at max), and will re-up in two years, still at the second half of his prime, when the cap raises significantly. LeBron has made a boatload of cash, branded himself incredibly well, and really taken advantage of nearly every policy the league has. I may not be the guy's biggest fan, but I have to admit that he (or his advisors, who knows) are pretty sharp.

[freshinthehouse]

This isn't feasible, IMO.  This would basically be a form of restricted free agency, and there is no way players are going to give up unrestricted free agency.

[Ogaju]

This isn't feasible, IMO.  This would basically be a form of restricted free agency, and there is no way players are going to give up unrestricted free agency.

How is it restricted free agency? The players get to go wherever they want at their market value hit against the team.

[freshinthehouse]

If I understand what you are saying, a player can go to a team for lesser money, but the team is going to get charged his market value (whatever that is).  Well if that's the case, that team is often not going to sign that player because that market value charge would make the player too expensive.  Or they may not be able to fit the player under the cap.  So in essence the player is going to be forced to go to whatever team can pay him at market value.

[Vox_Populi]

For every LeBron or Dwayne Wade there is a Carmelo Anthony or Chris Bosh (circa 2014) whose primary concern is finances. The only reason Bosh to Houston became a possibility is because Miami was asking him to take a significant pay cut whereas Houston could offer the max. Heck, even Pau Gasol was driven by money to a lesser extent. (He left LA who offered 2 yr/$22 mil, but he chose the Bull's 3/$22 over the Spurs' MLE).

The prototypical timeline for a star in the cap era (through observation) is:
1) play out rookie scale
2) Make as much money as possible on the soonest extension
3) Take a pay cut for the good of the team

LeBron followed this (max extension in Cleveland before leaving). The only reason he had a second go-around was because he came into the league so young and had an opt out during the "greater good" period. LeBron is actually earning the max now. Wade followed this timeline, too. Carmelo followed this, except he traded step 3 for a second go at step 2. He recently opened a venture capital firm. Bosh followed this timeline out of order, as he sacrificed and then got his payday. In other words, most players throughout the free agency era follow this timeline. The few that mix it up throw the league for a loop, but they eventually err towards the step that they missed. The repercussions then come down, when Bosh will be payed max at the age of 35 or LeBron at the age of 31 is re-upped for (presumably) the full max.

I honestly think that the only reason we are having this discussion at all is because LeBron James singlehandedly discovered and executed how to best take advantage of the cap. He came, made money (first extension with Cleveland), flexibly sacrificed (Miami, but with opt-outs), won, subsequently increased his (already great) public image, opted out,  made money again while further increasing his image (return to Cleveland at max), and will re-up in two years, still at the second half of his prime, when the cap raises significantly. LeBron has made a boatload of cash, branded himself incredibly well, and really taken advantage of nearly every policy the league has. I may not be the guy's biggest fan, but I have to admit that he (or his advisors, who knows) are pretty sharp.

TP.

[4THQTR]

This isn't feasible, IMO.  This would basically be a form of restricted free agency, and there is no way players are going to give up unrestricted free agency.

How is it restricted free agency? The players get to go wherever they want at their market value hit against the team.

How do you determine market value?
Making bids public? Not even sure that's a good idea in theory, but it certainly would never get accepted by agents or the players union...

[indeedproceed]

Malone and Peyton definitely not max but they took less money.

The player can go anywhere they want. It just has to fit the cap, and the way you achieve that is to stick the team with the players FMV and not some artificial number they agree to in order to subvert the salary cap. So Malone still gets to go to the Lakers but the Lakers get hit with the $12 million he commanded on the open market, not the lesser amount he took. That stops the stockpiling of talent on one team because it allows the Lakers less money to stack their bench.

I understand what you're proposing, what I'm saying is that figuring it out will be pretty tough.

Right now we have a version of that, it's restricted free agency, where teams have the right of first refusal (meaning the team holding the players' restricted rights can match any offer they get). What you're saying is a kind of modified version where teams submit official bids to players, and other teams have time to match that bid, and the players accept of decline those competing bids.

Its a pretty big system, with easily identifiable flaws that would need addressing. Ultimately though I think in time something really convoluted and onerous could be drawn up to address a lot of them.

And then teams would figure out back-end ways to work around them, like they do with the current CBA.

[Ogaju]

Exactly....

This is one way you can achieve the intent of the salary cap, and stop players and teams from colluding to frustrate that goal

As to your point that this limits free agency, well the salary cap itself restricts free agency so why not just abolish it. If you have a salary cap then you have to enforce both the letter and th spirit of the cap.

[puskas54_10]

You are way off about everything.
The new salary cap makes it harder to spend because of the increased luxury tax implications. The other thing is: the players are not slaves, go back to the 19th century. You are just a bitter fan who knows the celtics will suck so you want a system that serves your team better (at least you think it would).

[LooseCannon]

I believe the CAP could work if you do not have players undermining the cap by taking less money than they are worth.

The whole point of the salary cap is to save owners money by not making it possible to pay every player what they are worth.

[Ogaju]

You are way off about everything.
The new salary cap makes it harder to spend because of the increased luxury tax implications. The other thing is: the players are not slaves, go back to the 19th century. You are just a bitter fan who knows the celtics will suck so you want a system that serves your team better (at least you think it would).

[greg683x]

how about longer rookie contracts with periods during the contract where the player is eligible for arbitration where someone can determine what the players market value is and the team is required to pay.  If the team is unwilling to pay the players market value determined by the arbitrator then the player is eligible to become a unrestricted free agent.

I also think the NBA needs to adopt the NFLs franchise tag rules.  Multiple first round picks coming back to the team that the franchise player loses.....obviously if the first suggestion is used then the franchise tag rule doesnt apply.

[puskas54_10]

You are way off about everything.
The new salary cap makes it harder to spend because of the increased luxury tax implications. The other thing is: the players are not slaves, go back to the 19th century. You are just a bitter fan who knows the celtics will suck so you want a system that serves your team better (at least you think it would).

You know what I mean...
Your idea is not plausible and totally unrealistic.

[Ogaju]

You are way off about everything.
The new salary cap makes it harder to spend because of the increased luxury tax implications. The other thing is: the players are not slaves, go back to the 19th century. You are just a bitter fan who knows the celtics will suck so you want a system that serves your team better (at least you think it would).

You know what I mean...
Your idea is not plausible and totally unrealistic.

I didn't get the slave reference since my proposal is actually pushing for players to get what they are worth, or to scrap free agency altogether.

I also don't understand the bitter Celtic fan reference since this proposal applies to all teams without exception.