Author Topic: Love to Cavs: Danny's Doing?  (Read 7689 times)

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Re: Love to Cavs: Danny's Doing?
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2014, 05:04:27 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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Ainge knew that if he didn't make that trade with Cleveland, then the Cavs would have just have found a similar deal with someone else.

Better Boston gets something out of it than nothing at all.

See this is thing that I don't agree with, they had a deal in place with GSW for Bass and the exception.

This could however have also given GSW the cap space to faciliate a Love trade too.

No, they didn't have a deal in place with GS involving our trade exception.  You can't trade trade exceptions.

We discussed a deal with GS where we gave them Bass.  We did not give them a trade exception, they would have been using theirs to take in salary (think of it like a mid-level exception:  It lets you sign someone over the cap, but it's not a tradeable asset)

We did not step away from a deal with GS to make one with the Cavs, they stepped away from us to keep cap space open for a potential Love deal.

I cannot stress this enough, our TPE would not have been used in a Bass deal.  Our TPE was used to absorb salary without sending any out, and getting Zeller, Thornton and a pick for it is a great haul, better than most, which just expire unused (like GS's ended up doing)

And had we not stepped in, another team, like the 76ers, would have taken on the salary to get a pick.  The writing was on the wall already, he just took advantage of it

All correct information here.
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Re: Love to Cavs: Danny's Doing?
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2014, 05:05:53 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Kevin Love would not have gone to Cleveland if the Cavaliers did not get the #1 pick in Andrew Wiggins.

Therefore, LeBron James would have re-signed with the Miami Heat.

Thus, it is not Danny Ainge's fault.


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Re: Love to Cavs: Danny's Doing?
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2014, 05:17:40 PM »

Offline Sketch5

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Yes he helped make it happen. But if not him some one else would have. We used nothing to get it done except a TE. We got a pick, Thorton and a prospect in Zeller that Stevens tried recruiting when he was in highshcool.

Cleveland will be good while the C's are rebuilding so why worry about how good they are. We were out of the Love race once Lebron said he was going home and wanted play with Love. So when they are on the potential downward slide in 5 years with Lebron being 35, we could be on the upward if things go the right way. I mean Smart and Young with be 25 and 23 at that point. Which is kinda nice to think about.

Re: Love to Cavs: Danny's Doing?
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2014, 10:34:53 PM »

Offline LB3533

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We got a pick, Thorton and a prospect in Zeller that Stevens tried recruiting when he was in highshcool.

Cleveland will be good while the C's are rebuilding so why worry about how good they are. We were out of the Love race once Lebron said he was going home and wanted play with Love. So when they are on the potential downward slide in 5 years with Lebron being 35, we could be on the upward if things go the right way. I mean Smart and Young with be 25 and 23 at that point. Which is kinda nice to think about.

I agree with you, whole heartedly!

Re: Love to Cavs: Danny's Doing?
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2014, 12:16:14 AM »

fitzhickey

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Quote
Two young stars

Bennet was not a star last year.  In fact, he had the worst rookie season in the last 24 years.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/1/14/5305228/anthony-bennett-rookie-season-statistics-cleveland-cavaliers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lt3Xw_8oMI

just because he is a former number one pick means nothing.

+100000
i don't get why all of a sudden bennett is this great asset. don't get me wrong, i might take a flyer on him, but he's been awful compared to guys like olynyk and sullinger. and the cavs pick minny got will likely be late first-round... wiggins is far more valuable than the other two assets, and if he doesn't pan out, then the wolves might really end up with very little from that trade.
Anthony Bennett was injured and out of shape for almost the entirety of last season.  Towards the end of his season (i.e. late January and February) he started to show some flashes and he has continued that this summer. 

And that article was posted January 14th, prior to Bennett starting to pick up. 

Anthony Bennett will have a better season than Kelly Olynyk this year.  I have the utmost confidence in saying that as Anthony Bennett is better than Kelly Olynyk.
Agree entirely.

Re: Love to Cavs: Danny's Doing?
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2014, 09:01:05 PM »

Offline thirstyboots18

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Who cares?
Danny made our team better by making something out of nothing.
I care.  I totally disagree that Danny has made the team better.  Since he lucked into the KG/RA deal, in fact he has never picked up,  or kept pieces, that allowed the big three to grab more rings.  I believe that by not standing by his franchise players he has hurt the Celtics reputation for loyalty immeasurably.

If Danny didn't know that he was facilitating the Love to the Cavs move, he should have known...that is his job, he is supposed to be good at it, and he gets paid big bucks to know what he is doing.
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Re: Love to Cavs: Danny's Doing?
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2014, 09:23:52 PM »

Offline GetLucky

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Danny is being patient and not making irrational moves that will get us stuck into expensive, non-flexible mediocrity a la Pistons. Remember how excited the fans were with all the "big moves" to "win now" because Dumars's job was supposedly in danger? Remember when Flip Saunders extended Pekovic, aquired Kevin Martin and Ridnour, and signed Corey Brewer and Ronnie Turiaf? They were "making a playoff push around Kevin Love." Everyone was incredibly high on these teams. The great thing was that they gave beat writers something new  to talk about and got mostly positive press, which satiated the fans' short-term longing. Once the dust settled, however, these teams are in the mediocrity that people always talk about wanting to avoid, even though they "got better" from where they were two years ago. Conversely, the Suns were projected to be a cellar-dwellars; they surprised everyone with smart, cost-effective signings and are now in one of the best and most flexible positions in the NBA. Danny is going the patient route as to not make any poor decisions that will be felt over the long term. In other words, he's doing his job pretty darn well.

Re: Love to Cavs: Danny's Doing?
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2014, 09:30:26 PM »

Offline Sketch5

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Who cares?
Danny made our team better by making something out of nothing.
I care.  I totally disagree that Danny has made the team better.  Since he lucked into the KG/RA deal, in fact he has never picked up,  or kept pieces, that allowed the big three to grab more rings.  I believe that by not standing by his franchise players he has hurt the Celtics reputation for loyalty immeasurably.

If Danny didn't know that he was facilitating the Love to the Cavs move, he should have known...that is his job, he is supposed to be good at it, and he gets paid big bucks to know what he is doing.

I don't think He lucked into the KG/Allen deal. I mean yeah a little luck, but that's most deals, luck the other team is willing to play ball. Some luck in the draft, but that was bad luck not getting the 1 or 2 pick that ended up being good luck. Why because DA made a move for Allen after KG wouldn't accept the deal to Boston.

After KG see Allen there then he's willing to come over and sign and extension. He then put some pretty good talent around them.

The biggest reason that they didn't more rings were injuries and old age. KG's knee. Then Perk, and Wallace's back didn't let him be what he could be, and Shaq couldn't get healthy. All of those teams had good backups to make good runs, just they lost key pieces at bad times.
Then when the team got a little older he didn't have enough capspace for younger players, that's were I think he's trying not to do again.

He's done a good job with grabbing good cheap pieces that could be used in deals or to have a decent bench when the deals happen. While the team isn't better when it comes to making a legit run in the playoffs, it's set up really nicely for the next two seasons to make moves to make us better.

Re: Love to Cavs: Danny's Doing?
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2014, 09:49:02 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Who cares?
Danny made our team better by making something out of nothing.
I care.  I totally disagree that Danny has made the team better.  Since he lucked into the KG/RA deal, in fact he has never picked up,  or kept pieces, that allowed the big three to grab more rings.  I believe that by not standing by his franchise players he has hurt the Celtics reputation for loyalty immeasurably.


  That seems a little harsh. Look at the injuries we had. KG's knee, Perk in 2010, Shaq and Rondo in 2011, Green's heart, Bradley's shoulders and Pietrus's concussion/whiplash in 2012. I don't think you can really expect more than "if we're fairly healthy we'll have a solid shot at winning a title" from your team.

Re: Love to Cavs: Danny's Doing?
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2014, 10:43:13 PM »

fitzhickey

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Who cares?
Danny made our team better by making something out of nothing.
I care.  I totally disagree that Danny has made the team better.  Since he lucked into the KG/RA deal, in fact he has never picked up,  or kept pieces, that allowed the big three to grab more rings.  I believe that by not standing by his franchise players he has hurt the Celtics reputation for loyalty immeasurably.

If Danny didn't know that he was facilitating the Love to the Cavs move, he should have known...that is his job, he is supposed to be good at it, and he gets paid big bucks to know what he is doing.
You can't fault DA for the numerous injuries we have had. And it's it not like he didn't try to keep our window of contention open for as long as possible. KG, Pierce and Allen were all on the decline when we got them in 2008, so it's not like we had an enormous window. I think he extracted quite a lot from this team considering it's age/bad luck.

And why does it matter that Ainge was helping the Cavs get Love. It doesn't affect any of our aspirations, as we won't be in the championship hunt for a while, so I don't see why you have a massive issue with this. Ideally we will be a serious ECF threat in 5 or so years, when LeBron is on his decline. I don't totally understand why you're so against this. Ainge literally made something out of nothing, how is that an issue?

Re: Love to Cavs: Danny's Doing?
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2014, 09:31:02 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Who cares?
Danny made our team better by making something out of nothing.
I care.  I totally disagree that Danny has made the team better.  Since he lucked into the KG/RA deal, in fact he has never picked up,  or kept pieces, that allowed the big three to grab more rings.  I believe that by not standing by his franchise players he has hurt the Celtics reputation for loyalty immeasurably.


  That seems a little harsh. Look at the injuries we had. KG's knee, Perk in 2010, Shaq and Rondo in 2011, Green's heart, Bradley's shoulders and Pietrus's concussion/whiplash in 2012. I don't think you can really expect more than "if we're fairly healthy we'll have a solid shot at winning a title" from your team.
Most of those were foreseeable.  Maybe not the exact injury, but the fact that they would be hurt just given age, history, position, etc. 

I do agree though that Boston was clearly in the hunt if they could have mustered better health, just acting like guys like Shaq weren't going to be hurt is silly (though him missing the playoffs is what killed that team).  And who knows what 11/12 looks like if Green is healthy (of course you could say the same thing about Chicago missing Rose, Atlanta missing Horford, etc.
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Re: Love to Cavs: Danny's Doing?
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2014, 02:14:58 PM »

Offline thirstyboots18

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Who cares?
Danny made our team better by making something out of nothing.
I care.  I totally disagree that Danny has made the team better.  Since he lucked into the KG/RA deal, in fact he has never picked up,  or kept pieces, that allowed the big three to grab more rings.  I believe that by not standing by his franchise players he has hurt the Celtics reputation for loyalty immeasurably.


  That seems a little harsh. Look at the injuries we had. KG's knee, Perk in 2010, Shaq and Rondo in 2011, Green's heart, Bradley's shoulders and Pietrus's concussion/whiplash in 2012. I don't think you can really expect more than "if we're fairly healthy we'll have a solid shot at winning a title" from your team.
Most of those were foreseeable.  Maybe not the exact injury, but the fact that they would be hurt just given age, history, position, etc. 

I do agree though that Boston was clearly in the hunt if they could have mustered better health, just acting like guys like Shaq weren't going to be hurt is silly (though him missing the playoffs is what killed that team).  And who knows what 11/12 looks like if Green is healthy (of course you could say the same thing about Chicago missing Rose, Atlanta missing Horford, etc.

I don't think that is when the trouble started...it was before that.  I know the big three were aging, and I may be the only one who feels this way, but I felt that a little more loyalty and patience should have been shown for Powe and the Perkins to see if they (even the next year) could have come back healthy.  Instead of trying to find "replacements" Danny should have been looking for effective "team" players to hold the standard until the Champions had a chance to repeat...that team was too close to championship caliber to break it up at that time.  And you can't say, for example, that Perkins never regained his former form, who knows what might have happened if he had stayed in Boston.  (I never felt that Perkins was the perfect center....but I felt that he was the hardest working and perfect for the Celtics.  While Paul Pierce was never my favorite player on the team, Paul Pierce WAS the franchise. The Captain was drafted by the Celtics, stayed through the lean years...he played for the Celtics for thirteen, THIRTEEN years! He should still be on the team in one capacity or another...I realize it is not fair to expect PP to haul the heavy load anymore, but we Do need veteran Celtic experience, and a franchise player should never be forced out, IMO.  Some people expected Pierce to resign with the Celtics.  I felt that he would not, at least not to play, as long as Danny is in charge (exception: maybe for a one day contract to retire in Green. Even if Pierce's number is retired, it is now just a little tarnished...he should have played his whole career in Green.  I think it is wonderful that everyone thinks that KO is the next Dirk, and the rooks are the next "whoever," but they have not done anything yet, and may not even be here, given the trade rate on the team, when anything is accomplished.  Rookies generally do not carry teams.  Jordan couldn't, Lebron couldn't, Howard couldn't, Shaq couldn't.  Larry was an exception.  It has been a long time since there was that kind of exception. 

I was impressed by a presser by Larry Bird yesterday (true Celtic values) who said that they will not replace Paul George, that it may take a while, but he will be back, and during his recovery they will still put a competitive team on the floor.  Even if it is just talk, I think it is the right kind of talk.  Although age is creeping up, Dirk is still going strong (if not quite as long) and "will never be traded."

I just find it interesting that after Danny told Red that Bird  should be traded while he still had value(?) and seeing how Red always showed loyalty to his franchise players (Bill Russell, Tommy, Bird, etc.) that Danny was the one Red traded.  I have often wondered if his lack of "we are a team and we can/will do it together" was a reason.   Again, only my opinions and thoughts.
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