Without George, do the Pacers Blow it Up?

[jaketwice]

West is a nice player. Hibbert is a nice player. George Hill is okay. The Pacers just lost Lance Stephenson.

They now have no wing players for next year.

I feel terrible for George, and for their fans, obviously. I can't even watch that injury again, and I'm not even a Pacers fan. (Is this thread too soon?).

But what do the Pacers do now?

Here's a link to a CB article about it http://www.celticsblog.com/2014/8/2/5962069/paul-george-injury-indiana-pacers-could-inquire-about-boston-celtics-jeff-green-trade-rumor-nba-usa  ...although technically the Pacers, were they to acquire Jeff Green would be BUYERS, not sellers.

My question is more the other way: if Indiana decides to blow it up, do we make the effort to get Hibbert?

[gpap]

Probably not.

All they have to do is pick up a semi decent wing like Shawn Marion and they keep themselves above water.

[Onslaught]

Why blow it up? The east is still weak and will probably still be a year from now. George will be back in one year.

[jaketwice]

Why blow it up? The east is still weak and will probably still be a year from now. George will be back in one year.

I think the East actually got a lot better. The Cavs are a contender now, of course. Washington is much better with Pierce (not a homer, he carried Brooklyn into the playoffs). D. Will and Brook Lopez will be back for Brooklyn. The Hawks get Horford back this year. The Bobcats got Stephenson. And Chicago got Pau Gasol, and a healthy Derrick Rose. Miami is still a contender with Bosh and Wade: still a playoff spot.

And David West is 33, while Scola is 34. Next year will be a contract year for Hibbert, at which point his trade value will decrease slightly - particularly if he plays extremely well on a team without really any other offensive option.

I don't think Stuckey is a replacement for Lance Stephenson. And while George Hill is ok - he is no one to build a team around. Indeed, there were some rumblings he was a bad fit for the Pacers. No matter what, the Pacers will be a worse defensive team. Coming back from that injury will be very, very tough. Shaun Livingston came back from the same injury - but it took him about three years: http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2393/shaun-livingston

And Livingston wasn't expected to be who George is expected to be: literally one of the ten best players in the NBA. Paul George was a monster: http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/4251/paul-george


Selling high would be prescient, in my opinion.

[manl_lui]

that team is still relatively young, why blow it up? ok, they're definitely going to lose this coming season, but why not use this opportunity to continue developing players, let George rehab

weak East, George will come back

[Stizz44]

Blow it up and tank.

Trade West and George Hill for picks and cap relief and let Hibbert learn the fundamentals of leading a team. Get a low draft pick, and form a new core of Hibbert, PG, and the Lottery Pick for the 2015-2016 season.


Spurs tanking method when DRobinson got injuried.

If they stay competitive, what’s the 7th or 8th going to do for them when they aiming for championships. Just look at Chicago for the last two years. If they traded Deng sooner, they probably could have got a lot more for him.

[jambr380]

Why blow it up? The east is still weak and will probably still be a year from now. George will be back in one year.

I think the East actually got a lot better. The Cavs are a contender now, of course. Washington is much better with Pierce (not a homer, he carried Brooklyn into the playoffs). D. Will and Brook Lopez will be back for Brooklyn. The Hawks get Horford back this year. The Bobcats got Stephenson. And Chicago got Pau Gasol, and a healthy Derrick Rose. Miami is still a contender with Bosh and Wade: still a playoff spot.

And David West is 33, while Scola is 34. Next year will be a contract year for Hibbert, at which point his trade value will decrease slightly - particularly if he plays extremely well on a team without really any other offensive option.

I don't think Stuckey is a replacement for Lance Stephenson. And while George Hill is ok - he is no one to build a team around. Indeed, there were some rumblings he was a bad fit for the Pacers. No matter what, the Pacers will be a worse defensive team. Coming back from that injury will be very, very tough. Shaun Livingston came back from the same injury - but it took him about three years: http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2393/shaun-livingston

And Livingston wasn't expected to be who George is expected to be: literally one of the ten best players in the NBA. Paul George was a monster: http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/4251/paul-george


Selling high would be prescient, in my opinion.

Shaun Livingston completely tore three out of four ligaments in his knee, George's injury (while gruesome) was totally different. He is also considered 'lucky' to have had a totally clean break of both bones.

I don't want either injury, but George should be able to come back pretty close to 100%.

[CFAN38]

Its a tough call to make but if I was in Birds position I would have to say blow it up. With George out the year this team will fight and make the 7th or 8th seed but that's it. After next season West is a FA and 34 and Scoila is 35 meaning they will be looking for a new PF. With the loss of Stephenson they don't have anything more then role player talent at the 1 or 2. George will be coming back to a team in major flux. Why not try to hash out the future while George recovers?

Trade ideas

Hibbert

A. with Kicks for Bargnani and Hardaway (or shumpert and protected 1st)

B. with Cs KO, Bogans , Anthony and clip pick

Trade A, Knicks replace Chanlder with a better passing big this puts them firmly in the playoff picture in the east. Both options give Indy an upgrade at the SG position.

Trade B, Puts the Cs in the playoff race and gives them the desperately needed big body in the middle. This is a step towards building with Rondo. Indy gains KO who should develop into a nice starting PF option for them and a pick while clearing $$.

West

A. with Toronto for Hayes, Field and 1st

B. with OKC for Perk and Lamb or Jackson

Trade A makes alot of sense to me they gain two solid players on expiring deals and a first. West goes to a team in the hunt and becomes they post pressence.

Trade B if Hibbert is traded Perk becomes starting center and Lamb or Jackson adds a high potetnial scoring threat to a team in need of O

All four of these deals should put Indy in a better position when George comes back.

If both option Bs are taken then the 2015-16 Pacers would potentiall y have a new core of George, Lamb, KO and Hill then they would need to make a move in FA for a center.

[CFAN38]

that team is still relatively young, why blow it up? ok, they're definitely going to lose this coming season, but why not use this opportunity to continue developing players, let George rehab

weak East, George will come back

not really that young of a team. West 33, Scola 34, Hill 28, Hibbert 27

[incoherent]

Feel for Bird to. He doesn't have many chances left to win a ring as GM.  This and the Malice have screwed him

[Who]

Nah, but I do think it'll happen naturally in next 12-24 months since (1) David West is so old (2) they lost Lance Stephenson in free agency. So there will be a need for a talent influx. I expect Bird will target a top PG to add to Paul George and Roy Hibbert duo. That that will be his new core going forward.

If George fails to regain All-Star status after return, I could see Indy blowing it up and entering rebuilding process. But for now, I think they'll hold steady and wait for his return, much like the Chicago Bulls have done with Derrick Rose over last few years.

[jaketwice]

Why blow it up? The east is still weak and will probably still be a year from now. George will be back in one year.

I think the East actually got a lot better. The Cavs are a contender now, of course. Washington is much better with Pierce (not a homer, he carried Brooklyn into the playoffs). D. Will and Brook Lopez will be back for Brooklyn. The Hawks get Horford back this year. The Bobcats got Stephenson. And Chicago got Pau Gasol, and a healthy Derrick Rose. Miami is still a contender with Bosh and Wade: still a playoff spot.

And David West is 33, while Scola is 34. Next year will be a contract year for Hibbert, at which point his trade value will decrease slightly - particularly if he plays extremely well on a team without really any other offensive option.

I don't think Stuckey is a replacement for Lance Stephenson. And while George Hill is ok - he is no one to build a team around. Indeed, there were some rumblings he was a bad fit for the Pacers. No matter what, the Pacers will be a worse defensive team. Coming back from that injury will be very, very tough. Shaun Livingston came back from the same injury - but it took him about three years: http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2393/shaun-livingston

And Livingston wasn't expected to be who George is expected to be: literally one of the ten best players in the NBA. Paul George was a monster: http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/4251/paul-george


Selling high would be prescient, in my opinion.

Shaun Livingston completely tore three out of four ligaments in his knee, George's injury (while gruesome) was totally different. He is also considered 'lucky' to have had a totally clean break of both bones.

I don't want either injury, but George should be able to come back pretty close to 100%.

I don't think that was the crux of my argument. And I don't think you addressed my main points: (a) the east is actually much better; (b) they will have to make a decision on Hibbert a year from now; (c) West is aging out of heavy minutes; and (d) they lost Stephenson (arguably their second or third best player) anyway.

[jaketwice]

Nah, but I do think it'll happen naturally in next 12-24 months since (1) David West is so old (2) they lost Lance Stephenson in free agency. So there will be a need for a talent influx. I expect Bird will target a top PG to add to Paul George and Roy Hibbert duo. That that will be his new core going forward.

If George fails to regain All-Star status after return, I could see Indy blowing it up and entering rebuilding process. But for now, I think they'll hold steady and wait for his return, much like the Chicago Bulls have done with Derrick Rose over last few years.

So I guess my question is: do you think that Hibbert/West is as good a tandem as Noah/Boozer. And, ancillary question: is the Indiana supporting cast weaker than Chicago's? (I think the answer to that is clearly yes) as you may recall, Chicago had had Luol Deng for most of the last two years - and really saw the emergence of Jimmy Butler and Taj Gibson. I mean - Chris Copeland? 34 year old Luis Scola?
 eh?

[Who]

Nah, but I do think it'll happen naturally in next 12-24 months since (1) David West is so old (2) they lost Lance Stephenson in free agency. So there will be a need for a talent influx. I expect Bird will target a top PG to add to Paul George and Roy Hibbert duo. That that will be his new core going forward.

If George fails to regain All-Star status after return, I could see Indy blowing it up and entering rebuilding process. But for now, I think they'll hold steady and wait for his return, much like the Chicago Bulls have done with Derrick Rose over last few years.

So I guess my question is: do you think that Hibbert/West is as good a tandem as Noah/Boozer. And, ancillary question: is the Indiana supporting cast weaker than Chicago's? (I think the answer to that is clearly yes) as you may recall, Chicago had had Luol Deng for most of the last two years - and really saw the emergence of Jimmy Butler and Taj Gibson. I mean - Chris Copeland? 34 year old Luis Scola?
 eh?

(1) Hibbert/West as good as Noah/Boozer = yeah, pretty much.
(2) Nobody as good as Deng.
(3) Supporting cast? Indiana are scrambling a bit right now. This only just happened. Free agency is still open. They have time to make another move or two to shore up those holes on the wing. Other than that wing position, yes, I think their supporting cast is pretty solid.
(4) George Hill is just as good as Taj Gibson. No Jimmy Butler but he barely played that first year that D-Rose got. 3rd stringer when D-Rose first went down. If Paul George ends up being injured for 2 and 1/2 years, I expect the Pacers will find a way to make improvements to their squad too. Find their own version of Butler.
(5) Chicago had big holes on their roster too. They played a bunch of borderline NBA players to third string PGs as starting PGs over last few years. DJ Augustin, John Lucas, Mike James.

Paul George is only expected to be out for one year. A team doesn't have to blow up a two time ECF finalist just because of one mediocre to bad year. The Pacers can still be a contender in the East in 2015-16 with P.George, D.West and R.Hibbert as core.

[D.o.s.]

Assuming Hibbert returns to form and West hasn't retired (either formally or effectively, ala KG) by the time George comes back.