DA / Catastrophic Mistake

[sed522002]

i love the terms common sense and denying reality...what a bunch of fluff...that basically means you got nothing and are dealing in hypotheticals...

Pretty much the premise of this thread then right? You don't have any concrete "evidence" that there WEREN'T any other offers as well, but continue.

You logic is too logical for this illogical person.

Lakers just broke the cardinal rule too, since they traded with Houston....ALL THE RULES ARE BREAKING 

[rutzan]

so basically...the logic here is get something for nothing...i love it...are people really going to tell me that zeller, thorton and a late 1st is some kind of blockbuster for us...reality check please...the fatal mistake is thinking that because you either made the road smoother or that you can go faster that you are being effective and productive...BUT...you just knowingly put an INSURMOUNTABLE rock is your path that you would NEVER get around for 4 or 5 years...so yes...would i take the risk of losing the tpe, zeller, thorton and a late 1st...heck yeah...i would roll the dice that no one else steps up to the plate...it's not even close...zeller, thorton and a late first are not such a coup that i would willingly and knowingly block my own path for 4 or 5 years...no brainer...

[Celtsfan92]

Okay, I'm having trouble not saying anything mean here, so let's just stick to basketball logic.

Obviously another team would've done this. There was more available cap room this year than at any other time in NBA history. It would have happened.

BUT for argument's sake, let's presume it didn't and because the Celtics didn't help LeBron was forced to stay in Miami...okay, we'll there's still a super team that's reached the finals in 4 straight years there. Between them, a super nucleus of talent in Indiana, a potentially healthy Derrick Rose in Chicago coming back, and a Phil Jackson built team with Carmelo being relevant in the next two or three years, you're STILL not getting a crack at the finals for "5-7 years."

So now that the miami team is essentially dismantled, that basically just moves one good team from Miami to Cleveland. You've traded one for the other. Who cares that we helped Cleveland?! We KNEW the Heat could win. Right now, we don't know about Cleveland. Wiggins could be a bust for all we know. Kyrie could succumb to the injuries that have plagued him. This is a good thing initially, and even better because we get a nice piece in Zeller, another first round pick that who knows if it'll be something really valuable (probably not but maybe a serviceable all star!) or could help trade for something valuable.

It's like trading a player to get something for then before they walk away and you get nothing and screwed. We got something out of a superstar moving, and it's not even our superstar. How is this POSSIBLY a bad thing? Sorry but I don't even remotely agree with the OP.

Oh, and my other point I forgot: I'm fairly certain DA knew this was the reason. It's not like he was blindsided and like "Doh! Wish I had realized Cleveland was trying to get the best player in the NBA who grew up in their town and played the first 7 years for them."

Like NO!!! He knew the whole time and did it anyway! Idk if it was the OP or someone else who suggested he didn't know, but that thought is completely asinine.

[rutzan]

Rutzan, please answer this question:

Do you think if Boston says No to the Marcus Thornton deal, that Cleveland just gives up and doesn't find someone to take Jarrett Jack's contract?  That they would just give up on the chance to sign the best player in the world?

of course they don't...what kind of question is that...seriously...

[sed522002]

so basically...the logic here is get something for nothing...i love it...are people really going to tell me that zeller, thorton and a late 1st is some kind of blockbuster for us...reality check please...the fatal mistake is thinking that because you either made the road smoother or that you can go faster that you are being effective and productive...BUT...you just knowingly put an INSURMOUNTABLE rock is your path that you would NEVER get around for 4 or 5 years...so yes...would i take the risk of losing the tpe, zeller, thorton and a late 1st...heck yeah...i would roll the dice that no one else steps up to the plate...it's not even close...zeller, thorton and a late first are not such a coup that i would willingly and knowingly block my own path for 4 or 5 years...no brainer...

[Celtsfan92]

so basically...the logic here is get something for nothing...i love it...are people really going to tell me that zeller, thorton and a late 1st is some kind of blockbuster for us...reality check please...the fatal mistake is thinking that because you either made the road smoother or that you can go faster that you are being effective and productive...BUT...you just knowingly put an INSURMOUNTABLE rock is your path that you would NEVER get around for 4 or 5 years...so yes...would i take the risk of losing the tpe, zeller, thorton and a late 1st...heck yeah...i would roll the dice that no one else steps up to the plate...it's not even close...zeller, thorton and a late first are not such a coup that i would willingly and knowingly block my own path for 4 or 5 years...no brainer...

THERE WAS ALREADY THAT ROCK!!! IT JUST MOVED FROM MIAMI TO CLEVELAND!!

You couldn't beat that team when you had Pierce, Garnett, Allen, with Rondo. You think Love was enough?!

AHHHHHHH

I can't take the nonsense. Is this how Tommy Heinsohn went insane?

[manl_lui]

Okay, I'm having trouble not saying anything mean here, so let's just stick to basketball logic.

Obviously another team would've done this. There was more available cap room this year than at any other time in NBA history. It would have happened.

BUT for argument's sake, let's presume it didn't and because the Celtics didn't help LeBron was forced to stay in Miami...okay, we'll there's still a super team that's reached the finals in 4 straight years there. Between them, a super nucleus of talent in Indiana, a potentially healthy Derrick Rose in Chicago coming back, and a Phil Jackson built team with Carmelo being relevant in the next two or three years, you're STILL not getting a crack at the finals for "5-7 years."

So now that the miami team is essentially dismantled, that basically just moves one good team from Miami to Cleveland. You've traded one for the other. Who cares that we helped Cleveland?! We KNEW the Heat could win. Right now, we don't know about Cleveland. Wiggins could be a bust for all we know. Kyrie could succumb to the injuries that have plagued him. This is a good thing initially, and even better because we get a nice piece in Zeller, another first round pick that who knows if it'll be something really valuable (probably not but maybe a serviceable all star!) or could help trade for something valuable.

It's like trading a player to get something for then before they walk away and you get nothing and screwed. We got something out of a superstar moving, and it's not even our superstar. How is this POSSIBLY a bad thing? Sorry but I don't even remotely agree with the OP.

Oh, and my other point I forgot: I'm fairly certain DA knew this was the reason. It's not like he was blindsided and like "Doh! Wish I had realized Cleveland was trying to get the best player in the NBA who grew up in their town and played the first 7 years for them."

Like NO!!! He knew the whole time and did it anyway! Idk if it was the OP or someone else who suggested he didn't know, but that thought is completely asinine.

very good point and TP for you...this was more about us grabbing more assets and that we won't be sniffing finals for a while...instead of wishing, why not gather more assets and make smart trades and transactions rather than sit back and watch things happen

[incoherent]

strongly disagree. We helped Cleveland hurt Miami. It's not clear that the new beast is scarier than the old beast, but it is 100% clear that we took a cut from the transaction.

TP.. perfectly described

[Granath]

Hell, Danny wasn't going to miss the opportunity to stick it to Pat Riley!

In this case, I think the burden of proof is on the OP to prove there weren't any other options. Good luck with that!

[rutzan]

i love the terms common sense and denying reality...what a bunch of fluff...that basically means you got nothing and are dealing in hypotheticals...

Pretty much the premise of this thread then right? You don't have any concrete "evidence" that there WEREN'T any other offers as well, but continue.

hello...i never said that there WEREN"T concrete offers...i object to the idea that people were just lining up, slobbering at the mouth, to take that offer...people are making zeller, thorton and a late first to be like the mchale and parish trade...as usual here on celtic blog...let's start over-rating our own players and make this trade into some kind of a blockbuster...

[rutzan]

i love the terms common sense and denying reality...what a bunch of fluff...that basically means you got nothing and are dealing in hypotheticals...

I hear the Earth is flat also.

I wish negative Tommy Points were still an option.

LOL...LOL...LOL...

[fairweatherfan]

i love the terms common sense and denying reality...what a bunch of fluff...that basically means you got nothing and are dealing in hypotheticals...

Pretty much the premise of this thread then right? You don't have any concrete "evidence" that there WEREN'T any other offers as well, but continue.

hello...i never said that there WEREN"T concrete offers...i object to the idea that people were just lining up, slobbering at the mouth, to take that offer...people are making zeller, thorton and a late first to be like the mchale and parish trade...as usual here on celtic blog...let's start over-rating our own players and make this trade into some kind of a blockbuster...

Can you please PROVE to me that CelticsBlog posters were calling this a "blockbuster" and comparing it to the McHale/Parish trade?  Because all I saw were posters calling it a good deal since we got a young center, a 1st, and a scoring 2 for nothing.

[saltlover]

so basically...the logic here is get something for nothing...i love it...are people really going to tell me that zeller, thorton and a late 1st is some kind of blockbuster for us...reality check please...the fatal mistake is thinking that because you either made the road smoother or that you can go faster that you are being effective and productive...BUT...you just knowingly put an INSURMOUNTABLE rock is your path that you would NEVER get around for 4 or 5 years...so yes...would i take the risk of losing the tpe, zeller, thorton and a late 1st...heck yeah...i would roll the dice that no one else steps up to the plate...it's not even close...zeller, thorton and a late first are not such a coup that i would willingly and knowingly block my own path for 4 or 5 years...no brainer...

Here's the thing -- Cleveland could have created room to sign LeBron to a max deal just by using the stretch provision on Jarrett Jack, and waiving Alonzo Gee's and Scotty Hopson's unguaranteed contracts.  That wasn't their preferred method, since they'd have a couple million of Jack's waived salary on the books for 7 years, but if that's what it took to get LeBron, it would have happened.  The Celtics got something for making it easier for Cleveland, but it was inevitable.

[Celtsfan92]

Okay, I'm having trouble not saying anything mean here, so let's just stick to basketball logic.

Obviously another team would've done this. There was more available cap room this year than at any other time in NBA history. It would have happened.

BUT for argument's sake, let's presume it didn't and because the Celtics didn't help LeBron was forced to stay in Miami...okay, we'll there's still a super team that's reached the finals in 4 straight years there. Between them, a super nucleus of talent in Indiana, a potentially healthy Derrick Rose in Chicago coming back, and a Phil Jackson built team with Carmelo being relevant in the next two or three years, you're STILL not getting a crack at the finals for "5-7 years."

So now that the miami team is essentially dismantled, that basically just moves one good team from Miami to Cleveland. You've traded one for the other. Who cares that we helped Cleveland?! We KNEW the Heat could win. Right now, we don't know about Cleveland. Wiggins could be a bust for all we know. Kyrie could succumb to the injuries that have plagued him. This is a good thing initially, and even better because we get a nice piece in Zeller, another first round pick that who knows if it'll be something really valuable (probably not but maybe a serviceable all star!) or could help trade for something valuable.

It's like trading a player to get something for then before they walk away and you get nothing and screwed. We got something out of a superstar moving, and it's not even our superstar. How is this POSSIBLY a bad thing? Sorry but I don't even remotely agree with the OP.

Oh, and my other point I forgot: I'm fairly certain DA knew this was the reason. It's not like he was blindsided and like "Doh! Wish I had realized Cleveland was trying to get the best player in the NBA who grew up in their town and played the first 7 years for them."

Like NO!!! He knew the whole time and did it anyway! Idk if it was the OP or someone else who suggested he didn't know, but that thought is completely asinine.

very good point and TP for you...this was more about us grabbing more assets and that we won't be sniffing finals for a while...instead of wishing, why not gather more assets and make smart trades and transactions rather than sit back and watch things happen

Why thank you kind sir

[rutzan]

so once again...i hear about all these mythical teams like la and gs that were supposedly going to step up to plate...so now you're going to tell me...since it was de facto a done deal...we might as well beat them to the punch...i'll say it again...PROVE that there was another team READY to step up to plate...i just hear conjectures...PROVE it...

How about you PROVE there were no other teams that would have stepped up to the plate?

It's very likely that Danny knew the C's weren't getting Love by now, that Flip wouldn't trade for what DA was willing to give up, so he moved on. Sure, it was a risk to "help the Cavs", but so what?

If you remember 10 years ago, Danny "helped" the Pistons, but he got the C's some extra assets. Same thing here. Yeah, it could be that it's LeBron, Irving and Love for a few years, but again, so what? It's Cleveland after all, they'll find a way to squander their advantage...don't they always?

IAC, the wheel turns, Danny churns assets, and the C's will be back on top sooner than you think.

Exactly.  Why don't you PROVE to all of us that there weren't other options.  You are still going to have 90% of us disagreeing with you.

SO?  and your point is...