Are Rondo, Love and/or Melo really "Franchise" guys?

[drza44]

Sean Deveney of the Sporting News was on Celtics Beat this weekend, discussing (among other things) the latest on the latest on the likely homes for Rajon Rondo, Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Love in 2015 ( http://bit.ly/1oZmzBO ).

We often talk about whether Rondo is a true "franchise" guy or whether he needs to play with someone better to win a championship. As part of the discussion with Deveney, the same question arose about Love and Anthony. Could either of them really be "The Man" on a championship squad any more than Rondo, or do each of them need so much help that they wouldn't be true super-max guys?

Another way to look at it...if you could have any 2 of them for 2 max deals, would that leave enough left over to build a championship team with just reasonable talent at other positions?

[droopdog7]

If the definition is best player on a championship team, then rondo probably isn't it.  I am thinking only melo has a chance, though I don't really like him much either.

[Fafnir]

Even LeBron needed a lot of help to win it all.

I think Love is a franchise guy, I think only viewing the MVP caliber guys as franchise guys is a poor way to view the NBA.

[Celtics18]

Well, Kawhi Leonard has been the best player on a championship team.  That should give a lot of hope for teams that don't have a "franchise level superstar."

[billysan]

To put the Franchise label on any of these three is to equate them with Kobe, Pierce, Lebron, Duncan, Shaq, KG and company. None of them are good enough to be more than top level complimentary players, 2nd or 3rd in a big three at this stage. Rondo and Love are young enough to prove themselves as number two of a big three but Melo is past that IMO. He is a mid level complimentary player and marginal number three of a big three.

The sum of Love and Rondo combined with a couple of good solid complimentary players like a Battier, Ginobilli, Gasol, Posey, were to their championship teams would be a force. Still maybe not good enough to win an NBA championship.

[RyNye]

To put the Franchise label on any of these three is to equate them with Kobe, Pierce, Lebron, Duncan, Shaq, KG and company.

I don't think that's fair. We aren't calling them First-Ballot Hall of Famers. We are just saying they have the potential to be the best players on a contending team.

In that case, I think it is yes for all 3, but to varying degrees. People give Kevin Love a lot more crap than he deserves simply because he's been stuck on these terrible Minnesota teams. If he were on a half decent team people would appreciate him a lot more. He is a really special player. I know there are questions about his defense (also, even if his one-on-one defense isn't good, the ability to box out and grab defensive rebounds IS an important defensive quality, and he is the best player in the league at that), but I don't think people really understand how dominant he is offensively. The numbers he puts up are phenomenal. Just look at his per 36 numbers: 59.1% True Shooting; taking 18.3 shots per 36, 6.5 3PA per 36, and 8 FTA per 36, with 1.41 PPS.

For comparison, the average PF in the league has 53.9% True Shooting; taking 12.6 shots per 36, 1.6 3PA per 36, and 3.8 FTA per 36, with 1.22 PPS. Kevin Love has a really one-of-a-kind combination of volume and efficiency that you really do not see (even Kobe and other championship level players aren't that efficient at that volume).

I think Love is a no-brainer, and people will see that once he is on a decent squad.

Rondo and Melo I put on the same level. They are both supremely skilled players that could easily be the best player on a championship team, but are flawed enough that they can't necessarily elevate ANY team to that level. They need a team/system more designed around them to succeed, whereas someone like Kevin Love I think can work on any team of competent players.

[D.o.s.]

Nah dude Kevin Love sucks. 

[Celtics4ever]

They are not first tier but all of them are second and one could argue Rondo is third tier.

[obnoxiousmime]

I would say:

Rondo - 3rd best player on a championship team.

Love - 2nd best player on a champion.

Melo - 2nd best player on champion.

Of course, you could mix a bunch of good-but-not-great guys and still win a championship but it probably won't be one of those long dynasties unless you have one of the top players in the league.

[KamikazeK]

I would say:

Rondo - 3rd best player on a championship team.

Love - 2nd best player on a champion.

Melo - 2nd best player on champion.

Of course, you could mix a bunch of good-but-not-great guys and still win a championship but it probably won't be one of those long dynasties unless you have one of the top players in the league.

So I guess the only #1 players in the whole NBA are Durant and Lebron, right? 

[Celtics18]

I would say:

Rondo - 3rd best player on a championship team.

Love - 2nd best player on a champion.

Melo - 2nd best player on champion.

Of course, you could mix a bunch of good-but-not-great guys and still win a championship but it probably won't be one of those long dynasties unless you have one of the top players in the league.

So I guess the only #1 players in the whole NBA are Durant and Lebron, right? 

. . . and Kawhi Leonard

[Boris Badenov]

My recollection is that none of KG, Pierce or Allen was viewed as a franchise guy either before 2008. Pierce was too immature to be a leader. KG never took over in the clutch. And Allen wasn't a good defender.

I wouldn't put Rondo, Love or Melo on the level of KG when we acquired him, but I think they all are comparable to where Pierce or Allen was. I also think they're collectively as good as the Spurs' Big Three of Duncan/Parker/Ginobili - capable of winning in the right system and with a great (not good) supporting cast.

But to answer the OP's question - no, I don't think 2 of them could win even with a great supporting cast (where no other player was an All-Star or All-NBA defender).

[tfwhiteiii]

I think the Spurs have shown you don't truly need a 'franchise' guy to win the title now.  You just need guys that play off eachother well.

Melo is imperative I think.  He's a scorer, a clutch scorer.  And has always been an underappreciated passer too.

Rondo has been a lousy player in crunch time, so Melo at the end of games would be key.

The closest guy to being a franchise guy would be Kevin Love.  He's a top five player in the league and is incredibly unselfish.  That generally rubs off on other players, ala KG.  It's just Love doesn't have Garnett's defensive abilities and prowess, unfortunately.

I, along with every other Celtics fan, would gladly take that triumvirate though.

[crimson_stallion]

Of those three, IMHO,  only Melo is really a franchise guy. 

Hes been the best player on every team he's been a part of, amd last season was the first time in his near 10 year xareer that he's not made the playoffs.  That's proof that he's a guy who can lead a team to some level of success.

Neither Rondo nor Love has yet made the playoffs when they have been the best player om the team.

Those who claim Melo isnt a winner are truly blind.  There have been few players in league history who can take over games the way Melo can.  He will.go down in history as one of the best players of all time when all is said and done.  He won't be seen as a GOAT contender like MJ, Magic, Bird, LeBron and Kobe, but he will be the next level down - up there with guys like Dr J, Dominique, KG, Dirk, etc.

People tend to under estimate how good players of their generation are.  Look back in history and try to find a list of SFs who have put up career numbers on par with Melo's.  You'll find the list very small.

[Celtics4ever]

Those who claim Melo isnt a winner are truly blind.  There have been few players in league history who can take over games the way Melo can.  He will.go down in history as one of the best players of all time when all is said and done

They have good eyeglasses these days and I think you need some as well as those who say he is not a winner.   He was a winner in college.   What has he won in the NBA?   What games has a took over in the playoffs to win a series?  He is a great scorer that is not arguable as I see it.  In the NCAA he was a beast.  In the NBA not so much....

His is his playoff win loss record........ Drum rolls please

Carmelo Anthony, 16-36, .308

Read this if your eyesight permits.. JK

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2012/05/carmelo-anthonys-playoff-record-is-nbas-worst-in-20-years/1

I agree he is the most franchise guy of that crew.   There have been scorers like King, Gerwin and Nique who won some series.   Let the excuses begin.....