So do people still think Lebron has passed Bird????

[knuckleballer]

Not me

Same.  It's not even close.  The approach to the game is so incredibly different.  After watching tonight's game, what astonishes me is how mentally drained he looked, especially when people are comparing him to Larry.  Lebrick was never really into it, in game 3 or 4.  Where was the intensity, the competitiveness, the leadership?  Bird made the finals 4 straight years as well, and yet even in 1987, after coming off back to back grueling 7 game series, he gave everything he had.  That team couldn't field 5 healthy players, McHale had the fracture, and they were facing that loaded Lakers squad, but there was no quit in that team, and that's largely, if not solely, due to Bird's leadership.  If they didn't get screwed by double free throws and the fact that that ball went off of Thompson and not McHale, that battered team almost tied that series.  Even Larry's shot at the buzzer missed by a millimeter.  Yeah, he was probably tired, but you know what, he kept fighting, and fighting, and fighting; and yet when I watched Lebron in these past 2 contests, it almost seemed like, as soon as things started to get tough, he and the rest of those clowns wanted no part of it.  That's not the mentality of a champion, imho. 

On another front, if anyone on this thread hasn't visited one entitled Calling All Music Lovers yet, http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=70754.0, I'd strongly encourage you to do so.  Wait until you hear her sing!

Good post, TP.
I was a fan of Lebron's until game six Celtics/Cavs 2010 (Lebron's last game in Cleveland).  He quit that game.  Down 7 points with two minutes left, I expected to see Lebron's best.  I was afraid he would win the game by himself.  Instead, he quit.  He walked up and down the court and failed to even take one shot.  Those last two minutes are a microcosm of his career.  Three weeks later, he had Le Decision on ESPN.  When it's easy, he is at his best, when it's challenging, he hides.

[Onslaught]

I never did in the first place.

[Celtics4ever]

He is the best player in the world when things are going well for him.   We will see what he is made of for real next game.   My money is on him lying down and then saying he was injured the whole time.

[MBunge]

Look I dislike LeBron as much as the next guy, but this game isn't on him. His teammates just didn't perform.

You mean the teammates he hand picked to try to weezle his way to greatness?  It's on him.

We need to stop the rewriting of history.  LeBron went to Miami because he thought it would be easy to win championships.  Almost everybody thought this team could or would be a super team that road roughshod over the rest of the league.  Instead they've been "merely" great and not anything special when compared to other title winners.  If LeBron doesn't live up to the standard that he believed in and helped set, no one should make excuses for him.

Mike

[Moranis]

James scored more points than Bosh and Wade combined and yet it is his fault they lost the game.   The Heat get outrebounded by 17, yet it is James fault they lose (despite James being by far the Heat's leading rebounder). 

When will this irrational hate for all things Lebron end?

[slamtheking]

James scored more points than Bosh and Wade combined and yet it is his fault they lost the game.   The Heat get outrebounded by 17, yet it is James fault they lose (despite James being by far the Heat's leading rebounder). 

When will this irrational hate for all things Lebron end?

Never.  never let the Lebron hate and ridicule end.  he's fully deserving of all of it.

pampered his entire career by the league.  annointed the 'king' or 'savior' before he played a game.  he tried to rig a team of other all-stars and top bench talent to ensure he'd finally win a title, which he did.  If not for SA blowing it last year, he'd only have his one ring over OKC.

At least the other recent greats before him (Bird, Magic, Jordon, Hakeem, Duncan, etc..) all had to win a title before the adulation of the league and media.  The only other player that received that level of pampering/favoritism when joining the league was Shaq.  (and Shaq got that attention, IMHO, due to Jordan's initial retirement and the league was desperately looking for the next 'superstar' they could use as the league's poster child).

as much as I can't him and wish him ill fortune, I can at least admit he's the best in the game right now.  he's no Bird by any means.  Bird could elevate his teammates and make them better players.  Lebron does not.  He's a great individual player but not a great team player. 

[GreenWarrior]

I don't even think LeBron has passed Bird in bathroom breaks....I think....

[Roy H.]

James scored more points than Bosh and Wade combined and yet it is his fault they lost the game.   The Heat get outrebounded by 17, yet it is James fault they lose (despite James being by far the Heat's leading rebounder). 

When will this irrational hate for all things Lebron end?

Last night was mostly on Lebron's teammates, but he can't escape blame.  He had a phenomenal 3rd quarter.  The rest of the game? 

9 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists, 0 steals, 0 blocks, 3-for-9 shooting

[GreenWarrior]

He is the best player in the world when things are going well for him.   We will see what he is made of for real next game.   My money is on him lying down and then saying he was injured the whole time.

during the game they said something about his stomach bothering him before the game. guarantee we find out after this series he was still dehydrated.

i'm just sick of the excuses with this guy and i'm sick of seeing his cowardice getting overlooked and as i'm typing(speak of the devil...this is comical) i'm listening to mike and mike and they're actually giving us reasons why LeBron is the best player in the league and was the best player on the court last night....

anyway this dude quits whenever faced with adversity. it's a shame kids today will see him as a role model and I fear for what this game looks like 20 - 30 yrs from now.

[GreenWarrior]

James scored more points than Bosh and Wade combined and yet it is his fault they lost the game.   The Heat get outrebounded by 17, yet it is James fault they lose (despite James being by far the Heat's leading rebounder). 

When will this irrational hate for all things Lebron end?

Last night was mostly on Lebron's teammates, but he can't escape blame.  He had a phenomenal 3rd quarter.  The rest of the game? 

9 points, 4 rebounds, 2 assists, 0 steals, 0 blocks, 3-for-9 shooting

like I said in the game thread last night - no excuses from or for Lebron. this is what he chose.

[fairweatherfan]

At least the other recent greats before him (Bird, Magic, Jordon, Hakeem, Duncan, etc..) all had to win a title before the adulation of the league and media. 

Honest question, are you old enough to remember Jordan's early career?  Because it was pretty much the 80s media equivalent of LeBron's early career - tons of hype and adulation and highlight clips and commercials with the hardcore fans saying "he hasn't won anything yet, and he never will because he cares more about being a "star" than a winner."

[bknova]

They aren't getting beat, they are getting manhandled.  In 4 games, the Heat have lost by 15, 18, and 21, and won one game by 2.  This is comical. 

[Kuberski33]

At least the other recent greats before him (Bird, Magic, Jordon, Hakeem, Duncan, etc..) all had to win a title before the adulation of the league and media. 

Honest question, are you old enough to remember Jordan's early career?  Because it was pretty much the 80s media equivalent of LeBron's early career - tons of hype and adulation and highlight clips and commercials with the hardcore fans saying "he hasn't won anything yet, and he never will because he cares more about being a "star" than a winner."

I don't really remember that and I'm the same age as Jordan.  All I do remember is that playoff game with a skinny Jordan just out of college going nuts on what many call the greatest Celtics team of all time - 1986.  And that team being pretty much unable to stop him.  This was in the playoffs and the Bulls had Jordan and that's about it.  The hype for Jordan started when he signed the Nike deal and they started marketing him. 

[MBunge]

At least the other recent greats before him (Bird, Magic, Jordon, Hakeem, Duncan, etc..) all had to win a title before the adulation of the league and media. 

Honest question, are you old enough to remember Jordan's early career?  Because it was pretty much the 80s media equivalent of LeBron's early career - tons of hype and adulation and highlight clips and commercials with the hardcore fans saying "he hasn't won anything yet, and he never will because he cares more about being a "star" than a winner."

I AM old enough to remember Jordan's early career and there's very little comparison to LeBron.   In fairness, a lot of the difference has to do with how the media has changed and maybe Jordan would be treated the same if he was around today.  But NO ONE was proclaiming Jordan an all-time great BEFORE he started winning titles.  NO ONE looked at Jordan and said it was only a matter of time before he won a ring.  And while LeBron has gotten some criticism, it's NOTHING like what Jordan received before he finally won a championship.  The national media is full of people who slurp LeBron 24/7 to an extent that Jordan didn't get until he came back from his first retirement.

I'm trying to imagine what the media reaction would have been like if Jordan had played and looked the way LeBron did against Boston in his last playoffs in Cleveland and against Dallas and now San Antonio in the Finals.  The closest I can come is when he lost in the playoffs to Orlando and nobody got to upset about that because Jordan was returning after a nearly year-and-a-half retirement.

LeBron is great but it looks like the argument that he deserves to be alongside Jordan and Russell looks like it may be coming to an end.  There's no shame in that and no need to rewrite history in his defense.

Mike

[D.o.s.]

At least the other recent greats before him (Bird, Magic, Jordon, Hakeem, Duncan, etc..) all had to win a title before the adulation of the league and media. 

Honest question, are you old enough to remember Jordan's early career?  Because it was pretty much the 80s media equivalent of LeBron's early career - tons of hype and adulation and highlight clips and commercials with the hardcore fans saying "he hasn't won anything yet, and he never will because he cares more about being a "star" than a winner."

I don't really remember that and I'm the same age as Jordan.  All I do remember is that playoff game with a skinny Jordan just out of college going nuts on what many call the greatest Celtics team of all time - 1986.  And that team being pretty much unable to stop him.  This was in the playoffs and the Bulls had Jordan and that's about it.  The hype for Jordan started when he signed the Nike deal and they started marketing him.

"The hype for Jordan started when he signed the Nike deal and they started marketing him [in 1984]."

http://espn.go.com/blog/playbook/dollars/post/_/id/2918/how-nike-landed-michael-jordan