I feel myself vomiting - Melo and Bron????

[greg683x]

What's creating all the outrage is a bunch of speculation and people decrying that 'that's not fair!'

What people are (willfully) ignoring is the fact that they're just complaining because its the Heat, not because they're inherently opposed to the practice.

No I'm opposed to the practice.  Any other team we're in direct competition with, I would have a problem if this went down.  Just bc there aren't any rules against it doesn't make it right.  If the celtics were in the heat position I'd be exstactic but I wouldn't be unreasonable and say that I wouldn't be upset if I was a fan of another team. 

[MBunge]

What people are (willfully) ignoring is the fact that they're just complaining because its the Heat, not because they're inherently opposed to the practice.

That's not true.  Obviously, few fans will complain if their own team did something like this.  However, they'd be just as upset if it was the Lakers or the Knicks or the Bulls pulling this garbage.  What if LeBron and Wade and Bosh and Melo all decide to go to LA?  Would nobody complain about that?

Now, if we were talking about Miami swapping out Wade or Bosh for Melo, nobody would be happy about it but I don't think it would get quite the same reaction.

Mike 

[MBunge]

LeBron/Wade/Bosh would be voluntarily giving up millions.

Melo would as well.  That's why I don't think there's any chance this will happen.  For all the talk of the Miami 3 "giving up" money, they're still among the top 13 highest paid players in the league.  They only "gave up" a few million dollars over the life of their contracts.

In this scenario, the only way it could happen is if Bron, Wade and Bosh agree to sign for no more than about 15 million each and Melo agreed to sign for that amount as well.  So, even if they'd all get another opt out after 3 years, they would be giving up AT LEAST 15 to 20 million dollars over that span.  And even then, those 4 and Udonis Haslem would still be over the salary cap.

Mike

[knuckleballer]

These guys have no sense of competition or interest in facing a challenge.  They want to be handed fame and glory the easy way.  They may earn a lot of titles, but they aren't champions. 
It's often said that if you want to be the best, you have to beat the best.  These guys are looking for a shortcut.  For that reason, the Heat and Lebron James in particular should never be remembered as one of the all time greats.

So because guys like Magic and Bird were lucky to be drafted by great franchise we should look at them differently than players that were drafted onto terrible franchises like (James in Cleveland).  Because HOFers would go play with Jordan in Chicago (like Rodman) we should treat him differently than James who couldn't even get one of his closest friends in Bosh to even consider going to Cleveland. 

Shaq left Orlando to go to L.A. because he didn't think he could win in Orlando long term (despite the fact that he had an All-NBA teammate in Penny).  No one says crap about him. 

This irrational hate of Lebron James is just plain silly.

Yeah, I have a hard time grasping the logic that says that Larry Bird's front office going out and getting him multiple HOF teammates is A-OK, but if Larry had gone out and gotten those same teammates through his own efforts, it would somehow be a knock on him.  Doubly so if he was willing to - gasp! - take a pay cut to do it.  The latter situation would mean Larry played an even bigger role in his own success, instead of just landing in a good situation and making the most of it.  And if he had the same contract and free agency rules we have now, who knows, he might well have tried.

I think the real anger here is that first, it hurts the Celtics for this to happen, and second, a lot of fans are really uncomfortable with star players taking control of their own destinies instead of just passively accepting whatever their often incompetent management can put around them.

Dwyane Wade had won a championship and was considered one of the three best players in the league, along with Kobe, at the time he and Lebron decided to team up.  That was lame.  Had Bird and Magic done the same thing, I would have said the same about them, but that never happened. 
At that time all the retired greats, Jordan, Bird, Barkley, Magic, and others all took shots at Wade and James because they also thought it was lame.

If Melo joins the Bulls or Rockets, they will be a formidable opponent for the Heat and in my opinion Melo will be the alpha dog on either team.  I still think he's one of the 10 best players who has rotted on a dysfunctional Knicks team the past few years.
If Miami talks him into taking a pay cut so that there is no longer any competition for them, I think that will be lame of Wade, Melo, and Lebron.  These guys should all be franchise players competing against each other.  Joining forces so they can walk over the rest of the league is pathetic and shows a lack of competitive fire.  Bird, Magic, and Jordan were all supremely talented, but it was their competitive fire and ability to rise to occasions that truly made them memorable.

[bdm860]

I think it's a lot of fuss over nothing.

The team with the most talented players doesn't always win. 

2013 Lakers - many people thought they were practically a lock to be in the Finals and face the Heat, yet they barely made the playoffs.

2004 Lakers with Shaq, Kobe, Malone, and Payton. A lot of people thought they'd challenge the 72 win mark and sweep the playoffs.

2002 Bucks.  Coming off a 7 game ECF battle, added All-Star Anthony Mason to their trio of All-Stars (well to be fair Cassell wasn't an All-Star yet, but putting up All-Star level numbers).  Pretty much a shoe in to go to the Finals in the weak East.  Didn't even make the playoffs.

2001 Blazers.  Coming off a game 7 WCF collapse, traded away no rotation players to add All-Stars Shawn Kemp and Dale Davis.  Many believed they were a serious contender to the title.

2002, 2004, 2006 Team USA men's basketball teams.  (Plus all the other gold medal winning teams since 2000 have had several single digit wins even though they have 10x the individual talent).

Barkley joining up with Olajuwon and Drexler?
Pippen joining up with Olajuwon and Barkley?

Pretty much every Coach K or Calipari team that doesn't win the NCAA title.

Every one of those teams (except maybe the Drexler/Barkley/Olajuwon team and the NCAA teams) ended up imploding.

Even this current superstar Heat team has had great 7 game battles with San Antonio, Boston, and Indiana, and lost in 6 games to the Mavs, and may lose to the Spurs again this year.

This won't ruin the NBA.  Besides everybody likes cheering against Goliath.

There's only one ball.  How effective is Carmelo Anthony going to be getting 1/4 the shots he get's now?  Will the Heat offense be that much more effective?  Probably not as he'll just be taking shots away from LeBron, Wade, and Bosh.  There defense on the other hand will probably get worse.  While a favorite to win, that team will still be beatable.

[gpap]

If Miami or Melo is serious about doing this (and I have great doubts), if I'm Miami, I'd seriously consider ditching Wade all together.  Take the money and build up a cast around Lebron/Melo/Bosh.  If Wade wants to come back dirt cheap, then fine.  However, I'd consider him expendable at this point.

That's a good point. If Melo does end up going to Miami, I wouldn't be surprised if either Wade or Bosh ends up being the odd man out.

[D.o.s.]

Because Charles Barkley didn't spend half of his career chasing rings.

Because Michael Jordan didn't tell the front office which stars to surround himself with.

Because you couldn't even build the '86 Celtics under Today's CBA.

Because I'm sure no LA player ever colluded with anyone about joining the Lakers. Ever.

[Who]

They gotta raise max contracts to stop all these stars teaming up together. It's just not healthy for the level of competition in the NBA. 

Let max stars earn up to $35 million a year.

[fairweatherfan]

LeBron/Wade/Bosh would be voluntarily giving up millions.

Melo would as well.  That's why I don't think there's any chance this will happen.  For all the talk of the Miami 3 "giving up" money, they're still among the top 13 highest paid players in the league.  They only "gave up" a few million dollars over the life of their contracts.

In this scenario, the only way it could happen is if Bron, Wade and Bosh agree to sign for no more than about 15 million each and Melo agreed to sign for that amount as well.  So, even if they'd all get another opt out after 3 years, they would be giving up AT LEAST 15 to 20 million dollars over that span.  And even then, those 4 and Udonis Haslem would still be over the salary cap.

Mike

Yeah, I think there's some truth to the rumors, but I honestly think it won't happen this year.  I think LeBron and Melo finding some way to play together at a higher dollar amount in 2015 is a lot more likely.  The four of them would be leaving way too much guaranteed option year money on the table for next season.  Who knows, though.

[knuckleballer]

Because Charles Barkley didn't spend half of his career chasing rings.

Because Michael Jordan didn't tell the front office which stars to surround himself with.

Because you couldn't even build the '86 Celtics under Today's CBA.

Because I'm sure no LA player ever colluded with anyone about joining the Lakers. Ever.

Asking your front office to surround you with other great players that compliment your game to have a chance to contend is not the same as colluding with the other elite players to form a dream team.  That's a shortcut, it's not competition.  It's bad for the league and bad for their own legacies.

[soap07]

If this happens, what can the league realistically do about it? Players taking pay cuts has historically been smiled upon by both fans and front office executives. Players colluding as free agents - nothing you can do about that. It wouldn't be great for the league - I saw a great analogy somewhere else likening it to the reason that people don't love watching the Globetrotters. But if it happens, I don't see what the league can do about it.

Make no mistake, this isn't the 2004 Lakers. Melo is still a top-10 player in the league and even if he doesn't have the ball - he's a very, very good rebounder and catch/shoot player.

[MBunge]

I think it's a lot of fuss over nothing.

The team with the most talented players doesn't always win. 

That's true, but those other examples weren't of players of this caliber getting together in their prime (which they all are except for Wade).  And it might not guarantee Miami a title but it makes it harder for anyone else to win one.  If Melo goes to one of several teams in the West, he would make them credible title contenders.  If Melo joins Love in Boston or some other place, that would be a team that's very close to contending.

Mike

[MBunge]

LeBron/Wade/Bosh would be voluntarily giving up millions.

Melo would as well.  That's why I don't think there's any chance this will happen.  For all the talk of the Miami 3 "giving up" money, they're still among the top 13 highest paid players in the league.  They only "gave up" a few million dollars over the life of their contracts.

In this scenario, the only way it could happen is if Bron, Wade and Bosh agree to sign for no more than about 15 million each and Melo agreed to sign for that amount as well.  So, even if they'd all get another opt out after 3 years, they would be giving up AT LEAST 15 to 20 million dollars over that span.  And even then, those 4 and Udonis Haslem would still be over the salary cap.

Mike

Yeah, I think there's some truth to the rumors, but I honestly think it won't happen this year.  I think LeBron and Melo finding some way to play together at a higher dollar amount in 2015 is a lot more likely.  The four of them would be leaving way too much guaranteed option year money on the table for next season.  Who knows, though.

Especially because there's no way Miami or anyone is going to give Wade or Bosh 20 million a year deals if they opt out.

Mike

[fairweatherfan]

[If Miami talks him into taking a pay cut so that there is no longer any competition for them, I think that will be lame of Wade, Melo, and Lebron.  These guys should all be franchise players competing against each other.  Joining forces so they can walk over the rest of the league is pathetic and shows a lack of competitive fire.  Bird, Magic, and Jordan were all supremely talented, but it was their competitive fire and ability to rise to occasions that truly made them memorable.

This is where we disagree.  I think being willing to give up a ton of money to maximize your chances of winning championships is being more competitive.  Competitiveness doesn't require wanting all the glory for yourself as the undisputed #1 guy. 

I also disagree that there'd be no one who could beat that team, but that's a different conversation with a lot of outside factors at work.

[slamtheking]

These guys have no sense of competition or interest in facing a challenge.  They want to be handed fame and glory the easy way.  They may earn a lot of titles, but they aren't champions. 
It's often said that if you want to be the best, you have to beat the best.  These guys are looking for a shortcut.  For that reason, the Heat and Lebron James in particular should never be remembered as one of the all time greats.

So because guys like Magic and Bird were lucky to be drafted by great franchise we should look at them differently than players that were drafted onto terrible franchises like (James in Cleveland).  Because HOFers would go play with Jordan in Chicago (like Rodman) we should treat him differently than James who couldn't even get one of his closest friends in Bosh to even consider going to Cleveland. 

Shaq left Orlando to go to L.A. because he didn't think he could win in Orlando long term (despite the fact that he had an All-NBA teammate in Penny).  No one says crap about him. 

This irrational hate of Lebron James is just plain silly.

Yeah, I have a hard time grasping the logic that says that Larry Bird's front office going out and getting him multiple HOF teammates is A-OK, but if Larry had gone out and gotten those same teammates through his own efforts, it would somehow be a knock on him.  Doubly so if he was willing to - gasp! - take a pay cut to do it.  The latter situation would mean Larry played an even bigger role in his own success, instead of just landing in a good situation and making the most of it.  And if he had the same contract and free agency rules we have now, who knows, he might well have tried.

I think the real anger here is that first, it hurts the Celtics for this to happen, and second, a lot of fans are really uncomfortable with star players taking control of their own destinies instead of just passively accepting whatever their often incompetent management can put around them.

why is that so difficult?  in Boston's case, both in Bird's time and with the recent title, they had to give up valuable assets to get the players to go with Bird and Pierce.  the players they acquired were on legit contracts paying the players their legit values.  In Miami's case, they gave up nothing other than releasing some scrub players and had teh benefit of top players agreeing to sign deals at below-market value.  to me, that's player collusion and cheating the system. 

if they pulled off something and were able to add Melo to that bunch, I would hope Silver would step in and do something to prevent it in the name of preventing harm to the game.  much like Bowie Kuhn did in baseball with the firesale of the Oakland A's top players.  Personally, I'd be fine with a 1-year suspension from the league with no pay (annulment of any contract they signed as well) for all players involved and a heavy financial penalty for the team as well as the loss of draft pick(s).