Author Topic: would you prefer tanking again ?  (Read 14349 times)

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Re: would you prefer tanking again ?
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2014, 06:21:10 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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- Lose Rondo
- Lose most of our games
- Get screwed in the lottery again.

Why do you guys insist on doing this? It isn't going to work..  ???

Because youth...potential...higher ceilings!!!!   ;)


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Re: would you prefer tanking again ?
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2014, 06:31:05 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Nope.

I think that would be a serious mistake at this point.

We have young talent already on board and potentially (assuming no Love trade or similar) are about to add more.

If we don't trade that talent now, then if we 'tank' again, you are talking about riding Sully and Olynyk through yet _another_ losing season.  That will mean again, purposefuly avoiding fixing obvious holes in the roster and making questionable player utilization choices all in the goal of "development" as opposed to "winning".

The end of that will be that Sully and Olynyk could end up with flatlined or crushed player values and possibly even Rondo walking out the door.

The 2015 draft looks very promising in early projections, especially with some strong, true center candidates.  But the latter could be pretty deep throughout that draft.   Unless you are dead set on trying to tank for a Jahlil Okafor or Karl Towns (which will require "going all 76ers" for the pick), you can still expect to get one of the serveral other quality bigs (like Turner, Diop or Hammons) later in the 1st and even early in the 2nd.

Next year's draft may not have the hype this one has had, but it looks to be a pretty good draft. 

Aside from our own pick, we'll have the Clips' pick and whatever the protected Philly pick vests into.   That will either be multiple shots at hitting big on one of the later picks or could potentially be traded up into the low lottery.

I don't see any reason to 'tank' next year, even if we don't "score" with a big superstar acquisition.

Just play to increase the value of the assets we have at this point.   If there are solid opportunities to improve the team with mid-level acquisitions (that don't tie Danny's hands long term), then we should do them.   Get better.  Try to make the playoffs.  Build from there. 

We have plenty of picks from other teams over the next few years.  Someone else is going to stumble and fold for us along the way and the result will be a nice high pick.  I'm looking at YOU, Brooklyn 2016.  It would be best if we had an already strong roster to add that young player to.

I really don't understand the angst over not getting a chance to draft some hot shot prospect out of school.   Even now, the fact is, we can't take everybody in the top 10 - we have one pick- so some fans are going to be disappointed when we don't pick their favorite binky.  The rest of those guys are going to our competition.   Chances are very high that a large number of those guys will be available via trade or FA in a few years anyway.  You just want to be in position with assets and financially to get them when they do.
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Re: would you prefer tanking again ?
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2014, 06:42:21 PM »

Offline gpap

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I can't answer HELL NO fast enough

Re: would you prefer tanking again ?
« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2014, 06:45:36 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I can't answer HELL NO fast enough
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Re: would you prefer tanking again ?
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2014, 06:48:59 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

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- Lose Rondo
- Lose most of our games
- Get screwed in the lottery again.

Why do you guys insist on doing this? It isn't going to work..  ???

Because youth...potential...higher ceilings!!!!   ;)

Because we watched a mediocre team try to stay relevant after the big three got old during the 90s, that was painful.  When we tanked in 97, it was the wrong year to do so as it was an extremely weak draft after Duncan.  Then we hired Pitino who was incredibly impatient and tried to build a winning team when we didnt have one.  A couple of the good players we drafted, Billups and Johnson, we traded away far before they reached their potential.  That was a dark era for the Celtics and it was largely due to impatience and trading for veterans to build a winning team when the talent just wasn't there.  A patient approach could be frustrating for a couple of years, but could pay dividends down the road.

Re: would you prefer tanking again ?
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2014, 06:58:12 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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- Lose Rondo
- Lose most of our games
- Get screwed in the lottery again.

Why do you guys insist on doing this? It isn't going to work..  ???

Because youth...potential...higher ceilings!!!!   ;)

I find it interesting that a lot of the posters who advocate against tanking are some of the same posters that very loudly proclaim that the Celtics are 'all about Championships' or some other mostly useless Lombardi-esque nonsense. It seems to me that those people would be willing to recognize that winning a championship with a superstar on a rookie deal is, on paper, easier than winning one with max-deal vets, at least as far as roster construction is concerned.

As for me, I don't want to tank again because I want to watch entertaining basketball. The Celtics did not play entertaining hoops last year.
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: would you prefer tanking again ?
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2014, 07:23:14 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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- Lose Rondo
- Lose most of our games
- Get screwed in the lottery again.

Why do you guys insist on doing this? It isn't going to work..  ???

Because youth...potential...higher ceilings!!!!   ;)

I find it interesting that a lot of the posters who advocate against tanking are some of the same posters that very loudly proclaim that the Celtics are 'all about Championships' or some other mostly useless Lombardi-esque nonsense.
It seems to me that those people would be willing to recognize that winning a championship with a superstar on a rookie deal is, on paper, easier than winning one with max-deal vets, at least as far as roster construction is concerned.

As for me, I don't want to tank again because I want to watch entertaining basketball. The Celtics did not play entertaining hoops last year.

I find it interesting that you think that's the case.  I don't find that to be the case for "most posters who advocate against tanking."

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PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: would you prefer tanking again ?
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2014, 07:27:43 PM »

Offline Celtics18

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- Lose Rondo
- Lose most of our games
- Get screwed in the lottery again.

Why do you guys insist on doing this? It isn't going to work..  ???

Because youth...potential...higher ceilings!!!!   ;)

I find it interesting that a lot of the posters who advocate against tanking are some of the same posters that very loudly proclaim that the Celtics are 'all about Championships' or some other mostly useless Lombardi-esque nonsense. It seems to me that those people would be willing to recognize that winning a championship with a superstar on a rookie deal is, on paper, easier than winning one with max-deal vets, at least as far as roster construction is concerned.

As for me, I don't want to tank again because I want to watch entertaining basketball. The Celtics did not play entertaining hoops last year.

My apologies for double quoting you here, but since when is it easier on paper to win a championship with a superstar on a rookie deal?

That's actually a fairly rare occurrence.
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson

Re: would you prefer tanking again ?
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2014, 07:38:28 PM »

Offline Waew

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- Lose Rondo
- Lose most of our games
- Get screwed in the lottery again.

Why do you guys insist on doing this? It isn't going to work..  ???

Because youth...potential...higher ceilings!!!!   ;)

Because we watched a mediocre team try to stay relevant after the big three got old during the 90s, that was painful.  When we tanked in 97, it was the wrong year to do so as it was an extremely weak draft after Duncan.  Then we hired Pitino who was incredibly impatient and tried to build a winning team when we didnt have one.  A couple of the good players we drafted, Billups and Johnson, we traded away far before they reached their potential.  That was a dark era for the Celtics and it was largely due to impatience and trading for veterans to build a winning team when the talent just wasn't there.  A patient approach could be frustrating for a couple of years, but could pay dividends down the road.
even though 97 was a weak draft, the chance of drafting both tim duncan and tracy mcgrady at the same time was a possibility with the celtics 2 lottery picks. you have to admit, thats quite the argument in favor of tanking for lotto picks. its easier said than done to identify talent like that, but i trust danny to do it

i agree with everything you said though. patience can be key. look at the thunder.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 07:44:08 PM by Waew »

Re: would you prefer tanking again ?
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2014, 07:53:02 PM »

Offline celticpride17

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If i lived near boston where i could get all the celtics games with  local cable channels,Then i might be o.k. with it,BUT having to pay $189.00 a vear fo nba league pass makes me say no to tanking,I want a competive team now!

Re: would you prefer tanking again ?
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2014, 08:49:40 PM »

Offline tyrone biggums

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Please no more tanking. Make the Love/Melo deals or draft Smart who I think could be the next D-Wade.

Re: would you prefer tanking again ?
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2014, 09:26:58 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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If Danny can bring in some top talent in reasonable deals, great.  let's do it.  if not, I'd rather Danny make the most of what he has in terms of draft picks, roll through another season and see how we make out with less guaranteed contracts on the roster and more assets for deals (or maybe Danny hits the jackpot with #6 this year and we have a good young building block to go with another top talent that may be brought in next offseason.

I don't want to see Danny just make deals for the sake of making deals.

Re: would you prefer tanking again ?
« Reply #42 on: June 10, 2014, 09:48:33 PM »

Offline dreamgreen

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I hate starting a season on the hope of losing every game.

Re: would you prefer tanking again ?
« Reply #43 on: June 10, 2014, 10:20:23 PM »

Offline D.o.s.

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- Lose Rondo
- Lose most of our games
- Get screwed in the lottery again.

Why do you guys insist on doing this? It isn't going to work..  ???

Because youth...potential...higher ceilings!!!!   ;)

I find it interesting that a lot of the posters who advocate against tanking are some of the same posters that very loudly proclaim that the Celtics are 'all about Championships' or some other mostly useless Lombardi-esque nonsense. It seems to me that those people would be willing to recognize that winning a championship with a superstar on a rookie deal is, on paper, easier than winning one with max-deal vets, at least as far as roster construction is concerned.

As for me, I don't want to tank again because I want to watch entertaining basketball. The Celtics did not play entertaining hoops last year.

My apologies for double quoting you here, but since when is it easier on paper to win a championship with a superstar on a rookie deal?

That's actually a fairly rare occurrence.

that was quickly typed -- should read 'kept through his rookie contract' rookie. As in, the best guy on your team, ala Duncan, or the second best, ala Kobe. The usual suspects in the same argument everyone makes about the importance of draft picks every time the issue comes up.

But you're ignoring the key part of my post in your excerpt, which is actually the answer to your question: the all-important "at least as far as roster construction is concerned."


as for your other question, 'a lot' is not 'most', but you can't reasonably tell me that there aren't a lot of people who think we should move as many assets as we can to become as competitive as possible, even at the expense of planting a ceiling on the team.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 10:27:32 PM by D.o.s. »
At least a goldfish with a Lincoln Log on its back goin' across your floor to your sock drawer has a miraculous connotation to it.

Re: would you prefer tanking again ?
« Reply #44 on: June 10, 2014, 10:27:11 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Danny will try his best to improve the team.   However, other teams are afraid to deal with him as he has burnt quite a few teams.   

I do not think anyone prefers to tank.   Guys come here because they love the team.   But if don't make any moves and simply draft and develop, I don't think we have a real choice not to tank.   I also do not think we are that good  and will be in the lotto anyways if this is what we do.   We  will probably win some games we should not and hurt our lotto chances as we did this year.  Tanking is really an all or nothing thing.   There is no moral victory in winning one more game.  Just beat LA!