I'm confused

[kozlodoev]

Wiggins is a better shooter right now but Gordon is perceived to be a better ball handler, passer and better playmaker.

This is the first time I hear this, ever.

Gordon is a tweener with emerging skills. That's what keeps him down. Wiggins is a considerably more polished player.

Check your sources.

Please bear with me while I go check the talking heads at ESPN...

He also showed a little bit of a post game, utilizing his superior quickness and aggressiveness to score points, despite not possessing an overly advanced back to the basket arsenal or the thickest frame around.

While Gordon isn't the most skilled player around?his ball-handling skills in the half-court are somewhat crude, and his jump-shot still very much on the streaky side?he impressed again and again with his terrific passing ability

Gordon's main weaknesses revolve around his lacking skill level on the offensive side of the ball ... Despite being the 2nd leading scorer on an Arizona squad that almost made it to the Final 4, Gordon needs extensive improvement offensively ... His ball-handling ability is not very good right now, and he loses significant effectiveness the more he dribbles the ball? Rarely looks comfortable with his back to the rim ... Not blessed with a soft touch, which suggests he will continue to have his struggles as a jump shooter, and from the line ...  Could get sealed by bigger PFs in the NBA due to his narrow frame ... Not particularly lengthy ... Some consider Gordon a bit of a tweener?

I know that you usually think that when multiple sources are telling you the same thing, it usually means the truth is exactly the opposite, but that's not my problem

[Rondo9]

it really is amazing how draft express is used as gospel around here, especially by people who have probably never seen these players play.   

you guys should read what draft express had to say about Jan Veselys basketball talents.

I have watched many more games of Gordon play than you have.

I bet you haven't watch a single game he played last season. 

People who haven't watched a game from start to finish don't understand Gordon's impact for his team. Alot of the things he does can't be accounted on the stat sheet

People said the same thing about Michael Kidd Gilchrist as well.

I havent claimed to watch any of Gordons games, you can have that trophy bud.

But since youre the Gordon expert how come your response to someones take on Gordons talent is posting a draft express video??  just seems like an uninformed cop out.

Bc its to provide a visual example

Why do you trash talk or have a negative opinion about a player you havent seen not even one game play?

please show me one example where I trash talked or had any kind of negative opinion of Gordon.

My whole point is it gets tiring when peoples response to peoples opinions are some dime a dozen scouting report video or highlight video.  If I'm gonna post something about Gordons passing ability I'd have a lot more respect for an informed response from someone who looks like they actually know something about the player.  Not, 'Oh yeah? check out 3:45'

Because you know what??  Check out Mikki Moore.  Lets watch every jumpshot hes ever made in his career.  I bet theres people out there that watch this video and actually think this is a good NBA player.  Now imagine this is a college player getting ready to enter the draft, and hopefully you see my point.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gVJYwV5B4g

The difference between that Video and the Gordon video, is that Gordon's video analytical, displaying Gordon's strengths and weaknesses. While Mikki Moore is purely highlights with no analysis of his game.

[greg683x]

it really is amazing how draft express is used as gospel around here, especially by people who have probably never seen these players play.   

you guys should read what draft express had to say about Jan Veselys basketball talents.

I have watched many more games of Gordon play than you have.

I bet you haven't watch a single game he played last season. 

People who haven't watched a game from start to finish don't understand Gordon's impact for his team. Alot of the things he does can't be accounted on the stat sheet

People said the same thing about Michael Kidd Gilchrist as well.

I havent claimed to watch any of Gordons games, you can have that trophy bud.

But since youre the Gordon expert how come your response to someones take on Gordons talent is posting a draft express video??  just seems like an uninformed cop out.

Bc its to provide a visual example

Why do you trash talk or have a negative opinion about a player you havent seen not even one game play?

please show me one example where I trash talked or had any kind of negative opinion of Gordon.

My whole point is it gets tiring when peoples response to peoples opinions are some dime a dozen scouting report video or highlight video.  If I'm gonna post something about Gordons passing ability I'd have a lot more respect for an informed response from someone who looks like they actually know something about the player.  Not, 'Oh yeah? check out 3:45'

Because you know what??  Check out Mikki Moore.  Lets watch every jumpshot hes ever made in his career.  I bet theres people out there that watch this video and actually think this is a good NBA player.  Now imagine this is a college player getting ready to enter the draft, and hopefully you see my point.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gVJYwV5B4g

The difference between that Video and the Gordon video, is that Gordon's video analytical, displaying Gordon's strengths and weaknesses. While Mikki Moore is purely highlights with no analysis of his game.

do you really want me to start posting scouting report videos that were flat out wrong??  because I can do it. 

Scouting report videos are fine, they just need to be taken with a grain of salt.  Theyre not gospel, it's an illustrated opinion.

[kozlodoev]

do you really want me to start posting scouting report videos that were flat out wrong??  because I can do it. 

Scouting report videos are fine, they just need to be taken with a grain of salt.  Theyre not gospel, it's an illustrated opinion.

Of course. So let's see which is a more valid argument: using "illustrated opinion" as support, or using hollow phrases such as "check your sources" and "it really is amazing how draft express is used as gospel around here".

SMH

[Rondo9]

it really is amazing how draft express is used as gospel around here, especially by people who have probably never seen these players play.   

you guys should read what draft express had to say about Jan Veselys basketball talents.

I have watched many more games of Gordon play than you have.

I bet you haven't watch a single game he played last season. 

People who haven't watched a game from start to finish don't understand Gordon's impact for his team. Alot of the things he does can't be accounted on the stat sheet

People said the same thing about Michael Kidd Gilchrist as well.

I havent claimed to watch any of Gordons games, you can have that trophy bud.

But since youre the Gordon expert how come your response to someones take on Gordons talent is posting a draft express video??  just seems like an uninformed cop out.

Bc its to provide a visual example

Why do you trash talk or have a negative opinion about a player you havent seen not even one game play?

please show me one example where I trash talked or had any kind of negative opinion of Gordon.

My whole point is it gets tiring when peoples response to peoples opinions are some dime a dozen scouting report video or highlight video.  If I'm gonna post something about Gordons passing ability I'd have a lot more respect for an informed response from someone who looks like they actually know something about the player.  Not, 'Oh yeah? check out 3:45'

Because you know what??  Check out Mikki Moore.  Lets watch every jumpshot hes ever made in his career.  I bet theres people out there that watch this video and actually think this is a good NBA player.  Now imagine this is a college player getting reardy to enter the draft, and hopefully you see my point.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gVJYwV5B4g

The difference between that Video and the Gordon video, is that Gordon's video analytical, displaying Gordon's strengths and weaknesses. While Mikki Moore is purely highlights with no analysis of his game.

do you really want me to start posting scouting report videos that were flat out wrong??  because I can do it. 

Scouting report videos are fine, they just need to be taken with a grain of salt.  Theyre not gospel, it's an illustrated opinion.

We'll considering that people don't often watch college basketball games at the same rate as scouts fans often use scouting videos to keep up and assess players I don't think people on this site are treating them like gospel but they're using as a way to show people what the players are capable especially if they don't have time to watch a whole game of that player

[greg683x]

do you really want me to start posting scouting report videos that were flat out wrong??  because I can do it. 

Scouting report videos are fine, they just need to be taken with a grain of salt.  Theyre not gospel, it's an illustrated opinion.

Of course. So let's see which is a more valid argument: using "illustrated opinion" as support, or using hollow phrases such as "check your sources" and "it really is amazing how draft express is used as gospel around here".

SMH

i dont really see how saying 'it's amazing how draft express is used as gospel around here' in response to a comment where someone just posted a draft express video and nothing else, qualifies as a hollow phrase.  I never even said check your sources.

But I'll leave you to your insult.  It was a good one.

[greg683x]

it really is amazing how draft express is used as gospel around here, especially by people who have probably never seen these players play.   

you guys should read what draft express had to say about Jan Veselys basketball talents.

I have watched many more games of Gordon play than you have.

I bet you haven't watch a single game he played last season. 

People who haven't watched a game from start to finish don't understand Gordon's impact for his team. Alot of the things he does can't be accounted on the stat sheet

People said the same thing about Michael Kidd Gilchrist as well.

I havent claimed to watch any of Gordons games, you can have that trophy bud.

But since youre the Gordon expert how come your response to someones take on Gordons talent is posting a draft express video??  just seems like an uninformed cop out.

Bc its to provide a visual example

Why do you trash talk or have a negative opinion about a player you havent seen not even one game play?

please show me one example where I trash talked or had any kind of negative opinion of Gordon.

My whole point is it gets tiring when peoples response to peoples opinions are some dime a dozen scouting report video or highlight video.  If I'm gonna post something about Gordons passing ability I'd have a lot more respect for an informed response from someone who looks like they actually know something about the player.  Not, 'Oh yeah? check out 3:45'

Because you know what??  Check out Mikki Moore.  Lets watch every jumpshot hes ever made in his career.  I bet theres people out there that watch this video and actually think this is a good NBA player.  Now imagine this is a college player getting reardy to enter the draft, and hopefully you see my point.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gVJYwV5B4g

The difference between that Video and the Gordon video, is that Gordon's video analytical, displaying Gordon's strengths and weaknesses. While Mikki Moore is purely highlights with no analysis of his game.

do you really want me to start posting scouting report videos that were flat out wrong??  because I can do it. 

Scouting report videos are fine, they just need to be taken with a grain of salt.  Theyre not gospel, it's an illustrated opinion.

We'll considering that people don't often watch college basketball games at the same rate as scouts fans often use scouting videos to keep up and assess players I don't think people on this site are treating them like gospel but they're using as a way to show people what the players are capable especially if they don't have time to watch a whole game of that player

Thats fine.  They can just often be misleading thats all.  We're forming our opinions off someone else's opinions, someone that probably doesnt even do this professionally. 

[kozlodoev]

do you really want me to start posting scouting report videos that were flat out wrong??  because I can do it. 

Scouting report videos are fine, they just need to be taken with a grain of salt.  Theyre not gospel, it's an illustrated opinion.

Of course. So let's see which is a more valid argument: using "illustrated opinion" as support, or using hollow phrases such as "check your sources" and "it really is amazing how draft express is used as gospel around here".

SMH

i dont really see how saying 'it's amazing how draft express is used as gospel around here' in response to a comment where someone just posted a draft express video and nothing else, qualifies as a hollow phrase.  I never even said check your sources.

But I'll leave you to your insult.  It was a good one.

These were the two general comments used in this thread as a "criticism" against conventional analysis of draft picks. I didn't even know one of them was yours, but you can consider yourself singled out if it suits you.

The fact remains that the opposing side has mostly presented knee jerk reactions without providing anything valuable in terms of actual player analysis.

[arctic 3.0]

Dialogue digressing into pointless arguments. It's this kind of crud that makes posting here less and less appealing.

[pokeKingCurtis]

Are people calling MKG a foregone conclusion? He's 20.

Not the biggest fan of drafting Gordon but I wouldn't hate it that much, personally.

[Tr1boy]

Are people calling MKG a foregone conclusion? He's 20.

Not the biggest fan of drafting Gordon but I wouldn't hate it that much, personally.

some people are.  MKG imo still has one more season to prove himself/live up to expectations

[arctic 3.0]

Are people calling MKG a foregone conclusion? He's 20.

Not the biggest fan of drafting Gordon but I wouldn't hate it that much, personally.

some people are.  MKG imo still has one more season to prove himself/live up to expectations

This is a great example. MKG has some great tools, question is does he he have the personality, mindset to work to improve his weaknesses? If so he can live up to his potential.
Gordon has tools, and by all reports the personality to get better.
Wiggins has the tools but his mindset is questioned.

[Roy H.]

Are people calling MKG a foregone conclusion? He's 20.

Not the biggest fan of drafting Gordon but I wouldn't hate it that much, personally.

some people are.  MKG imo still has one more season to prove himself/live up to expectations

This is a great example. MKG has some great tools, question is does he he have the personality, mindset to work to improve his weaknesses? If so he can live up to his potential.
Gordon has tools, and by all reports the personality to get better.
Wiggins has the tools but his mindset is questioned.

Is Wiggins' work ethic questioned?  I haven't seen that particular criticism.  Rather, his aggressiveness on the court is questioned at times.  That doesn't mean he doesn't / won't work just as hard on his game as Gordon, though.

[pokeKingCurtis]

I'm sure Jeff Green worked hard, especially after his heart surgery.

But, man, he sure has a mindset problem.

[nickagneta]

Are people calling MKG a foregone conclusion? He's 20.

Not the biggest fan of drafting Gordon but I wouldn't hate it that much, personally.

The biggest problem with MKG is the same problem that exists with Gordon, Both are awful shooters with limited range. Now everyone will tell you that shot form can be fixed and that people can get better at shooting and point out players like Magic Johnson and Jason Kidd as prime examples. But they tend to be the exception rather than the rule. Mostly, players that come into the League as bad shooters stay bad shooters. I am not sure there is even a historic example of a player that was such a bad shooter in college that he could only shoot free throws at a 42% rate that then came to the NBA and became even a mediocre shooter.

So with MKG shooting so poorly from range and from the line his first two seasons, the likelihood of him improving is probably extremely low and given the similarities in scouting reports on the two players before they got to the League its most likely Gordon won't be improving that much either. Its just not a common occurrence for a horrible college shooter to come to the NBA and suddenly become good at shooting. It doesn't happen very often. It does happen but its mostly the rare exception and it happens over a long period of time. Expecting MKG or Gordon to be good shooters any time in the next 5-6 years is probably just wishful thinking.