I Don't "Hate" Lebron...but

[GreenWarrior]

he'll simply never be in the same class as Jordan, Russell, Bird, Johnson. even if he wins 18 rings all by himself.

and the main reason why I've come to this conclusion occurred last night. I believe it was the 1st or 2nd qrtr. Lebron was attempting a bounce pass  from the high post to a guy cutting to the basket, the ball hit a spurs leg, knee or foot(I had just turned the game on and the play happened to fast) Lebron stops expecting a kick ball call but the ball bounces right back to him with no call made. Lebron turns the ball over and while his teammates start to run down the court Lebron takes the time to yell at the official.

now, i'm sure if that play on the no-call had lead to a heat basket i'm pretty sure Lebron wouldn't have said a word to the official and likely would've been the 1st guy back down the court. all he had to do was keep playing,  he made the mistake. "play to the whistle" right?

then the ruling on the parker out of bounds play? he goes up to the official and rolls his eyes and keeps telling the official sarcastically "ok, ok, ok, ok"

it's this self entitlement and the expectancy of everything being handed to him and him quick to jump to blame someone else and "it can't be me that's the problem, i'm great" vibe he gives off.

i'm not saying past greats didn't have or do some of what Lebron is doing. i'm saying they handled it a lot better and had more class in the process.

if he would just play on the court and not be so blatant about his self entitlement he wouldn't look like such a Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline..

[mgent]

I thought he looked like a fool on that play as well.

[pearljammer10]

I do.

[Moranis]

all that said it was very clearly a kicked ball and should have been called.  And all of the great players throughout history in every sport argue for calls. 

[GreenWarrior]

and just add to this.

my perception of Jordan, Bird, Russell, Johnson etc. was that they never once gave off this vibe that they were concerned about their legacy. they always seemed to let their legacy take care of itself.

Lebron definitely has this vibe to him. from leaving Cleveland and it being too difficult getting past us(i'll never get over that) to walking off the court not talking to anyone after that heartbreaking loss. he's just way too worried about how he's perceived as a star. but could care less if he look's like a baby or a wuss in the process. 

[GreenWarrior]

all that said it was very clearly a kicked ball and should have been called.  And all of the great players throughout history in every sport argue for calls.

yeah true but I've always felt and believed that if you leave a game up to the officials you're going to lose. Patriots fans should know/believe this more than anyone.

[MBunge]

I definitely get an "entitled" vibe off LeBron, which is weird because the guy obviously works as hard or harder than anyone.

Personally, my distaste for Bron would drop enormously if the national media would stop demanding I love him.  One of the guys on ESPN's Sport Reporters on Sunday said people should just shut up and cheer for LeBron.  Now, it's one thing to respect his talent, skill and accomplishments.  But the idea that EVERYBODY has to be a LeBron fan, even supporters of other teams, is insane.

Mike

[D.o.s.]

I agree with the last three posts.

I do think that LeBron's game demands respect, and he's definitely the premiere point forward in the league, which is a play style that's rare enough to be appreciated anyway. He'll never be one of my favorite players, though.

[perks-a-beast]

I don't know how to feel about LeBron when compared to other all time greats.

On one hand, LeBron has never played on such a talented team as Bird, Magic, or Jordan, yet he consistently is in the finals. Sure, the Heat are good, but DWade hasn't been himself the past couple years, and Bosh consistently pulls disappearing acts.

On the other hand, LeBron has never beaten an elite team in their prime. The Spurs and the Celtics were ancient veterans going against LeBron and D-Wade in their prime, and OKC was so young when they beat them in the finals. It's nothing like Birds Celtics beating the ShowTime Lakers.

I guess it's a bit unfair to compare since the NBA has changed so much in the last 30 years. But I agree with the OP that I can never have any real respect for LeBron due to his arrogance and sense of entitlement.

[GreenWarrior]

I don't know how to feel about LeBron when compared to other all time greats.

On one hand, LeBron has never played on such a talented team as Bird, Magic, or Jordan, yet he consistently is in the finals. Sure, the Heat are good, but DWade hasn't been himself the past couple years, and Bosh consistently pulls disappearing acts.

On the other hand, LeBron has never beaten an elite team in their prime. The Spurs and the Celtics were ancient veterans going against LeBron and D-Wade in their prime, and OKC was so young when they beat them in the finals. It's nothing like Birds Celtics beating the ShowTime Lakers.

I guess it's a bit unfair to compare since the NBA has changed so much in the last 30 years. But I agree with the OP that I can never have any real respect for LeBron due to his arrogance and sense of entitlement.

yeah i'm not going to get into level of competition vs different era's and all of that. that's a whole different topic.

like I said he could win 18 rings all by himself and I will not view him as the best player the league has ever seen.

he's already set up the scenario where he possibly goes back to Cleveland.....as soon as things go south in Miami. he will because - "he can't be perceived as a loser"

...after Cleveland wins the lottery a couple more times.

[fairweatherfan]

I don't know how to feel about LeBron when compared to other all time greats.

On one hand, LeBron has never played on such a talented team as Bird, Magic, or Jordan, yet he consistently is in the finals. Sure, the Heat are good, but DWade hasn't been himself the past couple years, and Bosh consistently pulls disappearing acts.

On the other hand, LeBron has never beaten an elite team in their prime. The Spurs and the Celtics were ancient veterans going against LeBron and D-Wade in their prime, and OKC was so young when they beat them in the finals. It's nothing like Birds Celtics beating the ShowTime Lakers.

Sure, but don't forget Bird's other two rings were against pretty forgettable Rockets teams, including a 40-42 team in 81.  At least them, and probably the 86 Rockets too, were worse than any of LeBron's Finals opponents.

It's nice to have 2-3 elite squads with stars in their prime at the same time, but it's rarely going to happen in an era with 30 teams and more player movement than ever.  Gotta beat the teams in front of you.

[GreenWarrior]

I don't know how to feel about LeBron when compared to other all time greats.

On one hand, LeBron has never played on such a talented team as Bird, Magic, or Jordan, yet he consistently is in the finals. Sure, the Heat are good, but DWade hasn't been himself the past couple years, and Bosh consistently pulls disappearing acts.

On the other hand, LeBron has never beaten an elite team in their prime. The Spurs and the Celtics were ancient veterans going against LeBron and D-Wade in their prime, and OKC was so young when they beat them in the finals. It's nothing like Birds Celtics beating the ShowTime Lakers.

Sure, but don't forget Bird's other two rings were against pretty forgettable Rockets teams, including a 40-42 team in 81.  At least them, and probably the 86 Rockets too, were worse than any of LeBron's Finals opponents.

It's nice to have 2-3 elite squads with stars in their prime at the same time, but it's rarely going to happen in an era with 30 teams and more player movement than ever.  Gotta beat the teams in front of you.

so true. look at Jordan's bulls, they just missed meeting the Rockets in back to back seasons who most likely would have been their biggest test but Jordan was playing baseball.

[celticsfan8591]

All of this criticism of LeBron's character is very nitpicky and IMO unfair.  As Moranis mentioned every great player argues for calls, if you were to go back through game tape of superstars from the past you would find the exact same thing.  As for his being entitled and concerned about his legacy, I don't know if you can say that he is really worse than the guys who came before him.  The perception of him is, no doubt, but none of the other all-timers faced nearly the same level of scrutiny as LeBron.  None of them had to deal with every comment they made being spread around the world and overanalyzed by everyone within an hour.  People are complaining about the national media pumping up LeBron; well, with every huge superstar before LeBron the only things you ever heard about players were through the national media.  Do you think the public perception of Jordan would have been as positive if when he punched Steve Kerr in practice, a TMZ video of it was all over Youtube and he was being mocked on Twitter for it by the next day?  The legacy issue is the same thing; with the 24 hour news cycle, it's not enough to just report the score and stats anymore.  Something needs to fill the rest of the time, and often that something is a debate like, "Is so-and-so clutch? Is he elite? Where does he rank among the all-time greats?"  If LeBron's legacy was discussed once a year in Sports Illustrated instead of every day on First Take, PTI, Around the Horn, Twitter, Facebook, and Bleacher Report (and Celticsblog ) , he'd probably have to spend a lot less time talking about it.

[fairweatherfan]

All of this criticism of LeBron's character is very nitpicky and IMO unfair.  As Moranis mentioned every great player argues for calls, if you were to go back through game tape of superstars from the past you would find the exact same thing.  As for his being entitled and concerned about his legacy, I don't know if you can say that he is really worse than the guys who came before him.  The perception of him is, no doubt, but none of the other all-timers faced nearly the same level of scrutiny as LeBron.  None of them had to deal with every comment they made being spread around the world and overanalyzed by everyone within an hour.  People are complaining about the national media pumping up LeBron; well, with every huge superstar before LeBron the only things you ever heard about players were through the national media.  Do you think the public perception of Jordan would have been as positive if when he punched Steve Kerr in practice, a TMZ video of it was all over Youtube and he was being mocked on Twitter for it by the next day?  The legacy issue is the same thing; with the 24 hour news cycle, it's not enough to just report the score and stats anymore.  Something needs to fill the rest of the time, and often that something is a debate like, "Is so-and-so clutch? Is he elite? Where does he rank among the all-time greats?"  If LeBron's legacy was discussed once a year in Sports Illustrated instead of every day on First Take, PTI, Around the Horn, Twitter, Facebook, and Bleacher Report (and Celticsblog ) , he'd probably have to spend a lot less time talking about it.

Interesting, go on...

[MBunge]

  As for his being entitled and concerned about his legacy, I don't know if you can say that he is really worse than the guys who came before him.  The perception of him is, no doubt, but none of the other all-timers faced nearly the same level of scrutiny as LeBron.  None of them had to deal with every comment they made being spread around the world and overanalyzed by everyone within an hour.  People are complaining about the national media pumping up LeBron; well, with every huge superstar before LeBron the only things you ever heard about players were through the national media.  Do you think the public perception of Jordan would have been as positive if when he punched Steve Kerr in practice, a TMZ video of it was all over Youtube and he was being mocked on Twitter for it by the next day? 

There's some truth to that but the flip side is LeBron gets defended/excused by the media in a way that none of the previous greats ever would have been.  I mean, LeBron in his prime lost to a Dallas team that was, arguably, inferior to every single team Jordan and the Bulls beat for titles and LeBron got pantsed in a couple of 4th quarters by Jason Terry of all people.  Yet, that significant failure has had zero impact on LeBron's reputation and legacy.

Mike